I'd love to see these tankers try and use av as an infantryman. You guys seriously dont know how hard it is to kill a tank with little to no help. Try use a standard fit with standard swarms and tell me that the skills he has listed dont have any use. Smg skill, hell any sidearm you like is necessary when your main weapon only hurts vehicles. The fit he has is a good av fit. You would not be able to make an adv fit as good as this.

*Sigh*

This thread is not about balance... Not even in the slightest.

Again, using your own words to show you there is a disparity.

You had to add "with effort" on the AV side.

Because it's not nearly as much effort to kill an HAV with another HAV.

If there's not as much effort to kill in an HAV, why in god's name should AV have to put more of an effort, in a FAR more dangerous situation and it be fair?

Are you even reading what you are typing, or are you just drunk?

If we introduce ADV and PRO vehicles, then we'd either have to make both ADV/PRO AV either stupidly overpowered; which would make running anything other than PRO pointless and cause the V/AV roles to stagnate, as they would cost too much SP to actually be worth a d@mn.

Or we'd have to make the difference minimal at best, which would negate the purpose of having tiers in the first place

Well this thread derailed quickly.

He's saying that the effort required to destroy an HAV should be equal to the effort required to pilot an HAV.

So yeah, basically with extreme ease.

Why? Because you can die in an FPS game centered around clones dying and being resurrected eternally?

Until this game has more diversity, HAV's need to balanced alongside infantry.

That means one should pop just as easily as the others, and cost the same.

Sorry dude, but those vehicles in BF are ****** when you first use em. Gotta level them up for them to be any good, I.E. personal investment.

But that's moot point. The real discrepancy between the two is in BF the vehicles are free, as you pointed out in the end.. They are balanced, because they are free.

In Dust, it costing money, brings out varying degrees of peoples opinions on "value".

For instance, many people would agree that running MLT fits when you are low on money is the better thing to do. So why would you have a problem if HAV's cost the same as a dropsuit, where you can make throw away fits until you want to break your wallet. If in return, the only damn weapons in the game could actually kill you as easily as you can kill them.

Are you saying that you don't want it to be just as easy to kill you as you can others? You want to play in a situation where it's noticeably harder to kill you for the sole justification of "I'm in a tank"? You want the game balanced around being the superior asset on the field at all times?

Sir, my assumption in all FPS games is that if i use a direct counter on someone, it should directly counter them.



Holy **** man, talk about being arbitrary. It's not that cut and dry at all, and you know it.

You fight against HAV's and infantry without impunity, and excel at doing both. As an infantry using AV, I sacrifice my ability to perform well against other infantry, to justify my increased threat to vehicles. You are only threatened by infantry carrying AV weapons and other HAV's fitted for Anti Vehicle work. As an infantry AV I'm threatened by every single weapon in the game except the swarm launcher.

Now that is cut and dry. Infantry AV are threatened by every single weapon in the game minus the swarm launcher. You aren't that vulnerable are you?

Now try to use this to bring up an entirely separate argument that I never once mentioned, just to make it seem like you aren't bullshitting your way out of actually answering a question.

And what does getting out of your vehicle have to do with your capabilities while inside one?

Yea, the problem with that is everyone in the game makes that decision. We either choose to put SP into infantry, thus making us weak inside vehicles. Or we put SP in vehicles, thus making us weak walking around on foot. It's your decision whether or not to use what you are skilling into. If i go pure AV and nothing into any AP weapon, I'm going to ****** when trying to combat infantry aren't I? If you want to be proficient in both play styles, you must put skill into it. Just like I would have to in the case of vehicles.

I'm talking about the sacrifices that create a disparity between the two play styles. An HAV pilot has far more advantages that are FAR larger in magnitude then that of the infantry soldier. More HP, more speed, more ammo, more resistances, being efficient at AV and AP at the same time, and the ability to shrug off the majority of the weapons in the game, just for 200k more then a dropsuit and the inability to chase down your victims that do not have the proper tools to fend you off while on foot.

So sure, you can't stomp people across the entire god damn map. Unless its a map that has mostly open terrain, you know, the majority of the fuckin maps. That's what you sacrifice. Not being the god's of all possible terrain, though you certainly come close. (Note -I'm leaving out being unable to hack objectives. Because until they remove the ability to clone someone for the win, it's entirely moot fuckin point.)

Currently Infantry AV have to give up their rock to use paper. Infantry AP have to give up their paper to use rock. HAV's give up nothing, yet are the rock, paper and scissors from the get go, thus removing the entire concept of the game. When the best counter to combat a force is itself, then there's nothing that is balanced about it.