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Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION
762
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Posted - 2014.04.01 20:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
There's been some discussion lately about the effectiveness of armor repair (vs shield repair). I'm curious to get peoples' opinions on armor repairers vs reactive plates vs just regular plates (and I guess ferroscale plates, too).
I've heard that there's really two camps on the issue: you can go full repper (for best effect) or full brick tank. The full repper setup takes advantage of the armor repairer's function of continually repping while being hit, whereas the brick setup usually uses all armor plates and perhaps a reactive plate for some innate repair.
I've heard arguments that a full repper setup is better on a heavy suit (to better augment logi rep tools), while some people have claimed to go full brick setup in that case.
I'm really curious to hear about the community's thoughts on effectiveness/useage of armor tanking modules. Do Gallente setups do best with reppers or brick? The others, with no innate rep, do they need at least a reactive plate/repairer? Do shield tankers typically fill their lows with armor tanking modules, or do shields provide enough tank for speed mods?
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
830
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Posted - 2014.04.01 20:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vespasian Andendare wrote:There's been some discussion lately about the effectiveness of armor repair (vs shield repair). I'm curious to get peoples' opinions on armor repairers vs reactive plates vs just regular plates (and I guess ferroscale plates, too).
I've heard that there's really two camps on the issue: you can go full repper (for best effect) or full brick tank. The full repper setup takes advantage of the armor repairer's function of continually repping while being hit, whereas the brick setup usually uses all armor plates and perhaps a reactive plate for some innate repair.
I've heard arguments that a full repper setup is better on a heavy suit (to better augment logi rep tools), while some people have claimed to go full brick setup in that case.
I'm really curious to hear about the community's thoughts on effectiveness/useage of armor tanking modules. Do Gallente setups do best with reppers or brick? The others, with no innate rep, do they need at least a reactive plate/repairer? Do shield tankers typically fill their lows with armor tanking modules, or do shields provide enough tank for speed mods? Eh, armor rep mods need a 1 or 2 buff and then buff shields...
Closed beta vet
Tears, sweet delicious tears
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
1355
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Posted - 2014.04.01 20:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
The armor repairers do not repair nearly enough to allow armor to repair through damage. At the best, armor repair is kind of convenient. It will almost never save your life. Plates seem fine, but I don't run regular plates all that often.
He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
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Viktor Hadah Jr
Critical-Impact
3250
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Posted - 2014.04.01 20:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
wtf are reactive plates?
Selling Templar BPOs
Queen improves gameplay by 100%
Inertia dampeners are for poors
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
2357
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Posted - 2014.04.01 20:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
I run two enhanced plates and 2 complex repairers. Your HP is pretty crappy but at least it doesn't take half a game to rep your HP.
For the Federation!
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
2360
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Posted - 2014.04.01 20:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:wtf are reactive plates?
Garbage
For the Federation!
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
831
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Posted - 2014.04.01 20:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:wtf are reactive plates? Garbage I think you mean minmatar...
Closed beta vet
Tears, sweet delicious tears
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Killar-12
OLDSPICE. Top Men.
2537
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Posted - 2014.04.01 20:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ferros are lighter and should have lower fitting requirements Reactives... I'm not sure on Plates are perfect Reps are pretty good Shield Extenders need lower PG requirements at ADV and PRO Variants Shield Rechargers,Regulators and Energizers are fine how they are
Thunderdome is postponed until corp battles return please stop sending mails to me. QQ at CCP, not at me.
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
831
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Posted - 2014.04.01 20:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:Ferros are lighter and should have lower fitting requirements Reactives... I'm not sure on Plates are perfect Reps are pretty good Shield Extenders need lower PG requirements at ADV and PRO Variants Shield Rechargers,Regulators and Energizers are fine how they are Reactives, need a slight rep buff Plates need a added 1% penelty Reps need a buff by 1 or 2 Shueld extenders need to give 75 hp at pro and atd and adv need balancing Shield mods need lower req's, slightly Shield regs need a slight buff.
Closed beta vet
Tears, sweet delicious tears
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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
3767
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Posted - 2014.04.01 20:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
The only way reactive playes will ever be useful is if they can compete with plate/repper combos. Right now they just can't, and they're useless for it.
No.
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
2360
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Posted - 2014.04.01 20:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:Killar-12 wrote:Ferros are lighter and should have lower fitting requirements Reactives... I'm not sure on Plates are perfect Reps are pretty good Shield Extenders need lower PG requirements at ADV and PRO Variants Shield Rechargers,Regulators and Energizers are fine how they are Reactives, need a slight rep buff Plates need a added 1% penelty Reps need a buff by 1 or 2 Shueld extenders need to give 75 hp at pro and atd and adv need balancing Shield mods need lower req's, slightly Shield regs need a slight buff.
This is to much, in eve the current balance is 1 armor plate of the same level gives twice to 2.2x more HP than a shield extender of the same level. The difference is the repair between both where a shield ship repairs at 1.5x to 3x faster than an armor ship although that high repair is very dependant on a shield booster it is not acquired passively. The balance between shields and armor is way off when compared to EVE. What you suggest shifts the balance to heavily favor shields we are very close to balance but that balance does not indicate any buffs to shields only some fixes to fitting costs and a proper scaling to armor plates. In fact in EVE shields have a penalty to sig radius (a hit box in an fps) so consider yourself lucky that this isn't being used. As for the armor penalty does not decrease your top speed only your acceleration and turn speed, so our penalty is very harsh compared to eve.
For the Federation!
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ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
449
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Posted - 2014.04.01 20:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Come to me brick tankers! Plenty of reps for all of you! |
jerrmy12 kahoalii
832
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Posted - 2014.04.01 20:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:Killar-12 wrote:Ferros are lighter and should have lower fitting requirements Reactives... I'm not sure on Plates are perfect Reps are pretty good Shield Extenders need lower PG requirements at ADV and PRO Variants Shield Rechargers,Regulators and Energizers are fine how they are Reactives, need a slight rep buff Plates need a added 1% penelty Reps need a buff by 1 or 2 Shueld extenders need to give 75 hp at pro and atd and adv need balancing Shield mods need lower req's, slightly Shield regs need a slight buff. This is to much, in eve the current balance is 1 armor plate of the same level gives twice to 2.2x more HP than a shield extender of the same level. The difference is the repair between both where a shield ship repairs at 1.5x to 3x faster than an armor ship although that high repair is very dependant on a shield booster it is not acquired passively. The balance between shields and armor is way off when compared to EVE. What you suggest shifts the balance to heavily favor shields we are very close to balance but that balance does not indicate any buffs to shields only some fixes to fitting costs and a proper scaling to armor plates. In fact in EVE shields have a penalty to sig radius (a hit box in an fps) so consider yourself lucky that this isn't being used. As for the armor penalty does not decrease your top speed only your acceleration and turn speed, so our penalty is very harsh compared to eve. Exept armor reps rep more than boosters in eve.....
Closed beta vet
Tears, sweet delicious tears
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Contaminator Aquarius
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men.
17
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Posted - 2014.04.01 20:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
My views:
I think plates give a sufficient HP boost. They seem to fit well for CPU/PG costs. however, they don't give enough movement penalty in my opinion. more specifically suits that are designed to take extra plating should be able to do it better. for example light suits should be able to fit whatever modules want but if fitting plates they incur harsher movement penalties. This would give ferroscale plates a reason to exist right now.
Ferroscale, i never use them because the move penalty is so low for the regular plates that having no penalty on ferro doesn't outweigh the fitting costs or low HP they give you.
Reactive plates. I love them on my armor tanks. The only thing for me is they have a high fitting cost with a relatively low HP boost and the passive rep. Granted getting reps and tank in one module is pretty sweet. I would still like to see maybe a 20-30% boost on the HP they give you.
As for reps... they feel fine to me. you get good long term solo survivability with a combo of reps and plates if you play right. And if you are constantly finding yourself stuck in bad positions on low health you can still stack to rep faster between bursts of fighting. I don't think reps should ever be able to rep through damage being done unless of course it is extreme range/fraction damage. Shields vs armor i think there is a comfortable balance with two distinctly different types of tanking. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
2363
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Posted - 2014.04.01 20:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:Killar-12 wrote:Ferros are lighter and should have lower fitting requirements Reactives... I'm not sure on Plates are perfect Reps are pretty good Shield Extenders need lower PG requirements at ADV and PRO Variants Shield Rechargers,Regulators and Energizers are fine how they are Reactives, need a slight rep buff Plates need a added 1% penelty Reps need a buff by 1 or 2 Shueld extenders need to give 75 hp at pro and atd and adv need balancing Shield mods need lower req's, slightly Shield regs need a slight buff. This is to much, in eve the current balance is 1 armor plate of the same level gives twice to 2.2x more HP than a shield extender of the same level. The difference is the repair between both where a shield ship repairs at 1.5x to 3x faster than an armor ship although that high repair is very dependant on a shield booster it is not acquired passively. The balance between shields and armor is way off when compared to EVE. What you suggest shifts the balance to heavily favor shields we are very close to balance but that balance does not indicate any buffs to shields only some fixes to fitting costs and a proper scaling to armor plates. In fact in EVE shields have a penalty to sig radius (a hit box in an fps) so consider yourself lucky that this isn't being used. As for the armor penalty does not decrease your top speed only your acceleration and turn speed, so our penalty is very harsh compared to eve. Exept armor reps rep more than boosters in eve.....
Booster cycles faster + passive repair.
For the Federation!
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I-Shayz-I
I-----I
2788
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Posted - 2014.04.01 21:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
It depends on the suit.
If you're running a logi you want more repair than armor because no one reps the logi. However if you only have 300 armor...what's the point of having 20+ armor repair if you can die by a large alpha shot? Slower suits are better off to have more armor as the armor penalty doesn't affect them as much...but even then you should always have some sort of armor repair. What's the point of having 1000+ armor if you can only run through it once?
This is what I run:
Min logi: 430 armor, 12.5 armor repair Amarr Assault: 600 armor, 6.25 armor repair Amarr Commando: 700 armor, 12.5 armor repair Amarr Sentinel: 900 armor, 12.5 armor repair
Gallente heavy frames should fill all of their slots with armor reps though, possibly a complex sprint mod too. Medium frames don't have enough base armor to make this work (the alpha damage thing), but gallentes have the extra speed and slots that Amarr doesn't. ______________________________________________________________
Finally, ferroscale are only beneficial on lighter frames as the speed penalty is greater for basic plates on these suits (it's still 2, 3, and 5% but it reduces m/s more because math). Reactives are complete ****...well besides the complex ones, and only on heavy suits. Why? Because right now heavy suits have a ridiclous amount of pg/cpu to actually fit these modules without hampering the rest of their fit. _____________________________________________
Here's some general rules:
Less than 200 armor? Don't use reps 200-300 armor? Don't use more than 1 rep 300-600 armor? 1 rep minimum 600+ armor? 2 reps minimum (unless you have a logi)
Oh, and you don't go full repper to augment a logi...you do it so that you can survive without one. Complete Brink tanking is only viable if you have a DEDICATED logi or repping nanohives or if it's a suicide fit that's meant to last as long as possible. Having a repair lower than 5 on these suits is pointless, as it takes MINUTES to heal back to full armor by yourself. If you can't fit at least one complex armor repair you'd be better off with another plate.
Links:
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
I make logistics videos!
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Hecarim Van Hohen
Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn
891
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Posted - 2014.04.01 21:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Regular plates are far superior when compared to reactives and ferroscales in my opinion
If God had wanted you to live, he would not have created me!
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Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION
762
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Posted - 2014.04.01 21:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:wtf are reactive plates? Reactive plates give you some innate repair, a modest hp boost and a small movement penalty. They are essentially a mix of all three types of armor tanking modules, not doing any one thing well, but providing some benefits to all areas.
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CRNWLLC
Screwy Rabbit ULC
162
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Posted - 2014.04.01 21:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:The only way reactive playes will ever be useful is if they can compete with plate/repper combos. Right now they just can't, and they're useless for it.
True dat, but when your suit's made of duct tape and corrugated aluminum and is wanting for low slots (*cough*Minmatar assault*cough*), they can make a difference. I'm of the opinion that in the Minnie assault suit, you need to GTFO as soon as your shields are gone and wait for recharge, so a little bit more armor with 1 hp/s actually makes the basic Minmatar assault suit a lot more viable. And in this case, since a basic reactive plate puts its armor around 200HP, depending on skills, 1 hp/s is actually sorta useful. Though I'd prefer another low slot any day.
My other dropsuit is a Python.
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PLAYSTTION
GamersForChrist
79
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Posted - 2014.04.01 21:45:00 -
[20] - Quote
Vespasian Andendare wrote:There's been some discussion lately about the effectiveness of armor repair (vs shield repair). I'm curious to get peoples' opinions on armor repairers vs reactive plates vs just regular plates (and I guess ferroscale plates, too).
I've heard that there's really two camps on the issue: you can go full repper (for best effect) or full brick tank. The full repper setup takes advantage of the armor repairer's function of continually repping while being hit, whereas the brick setup usually uses all armor plates and perhaps a reactive plate for some innate repair.
I've heard arguments that a full repper setup is better on a heavy suit (to better augment logi rep tools), while some people have claimed to go full brick setup in that case.
I'm really curious to hear about the community's thoughts on effectiveness/useage of armor tanking modules. Do Gallente setups do best with reppers or brick? The others, with no innate rep, do they need at least a reactive plate/repairer? Do shield tankers typically fill their lows with armor tanking modules, or do shields provide enough tank for speed mods? I just made an assault gk.0 with all reps and its really good. 27hp/s. I run 3 enhanced shields and 4 complex reppers with waterer i want as a gun. U run faster than with plates and i get 550hp as a total. As soon as you take damage it just pops back up
-Open Beta Vet 19 mil sp-
Laser+Flaylock
Dust 514 recruitment link here.
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PLAYSTTION
GamersForChrist
79
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Posted - 2014.04.01 21:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
Vespasian Andendare wrote:There's been some discussion lately about the effectiveness of armor repair (vs shield repair). I'm curious to get peoples' opinions on armor repairers vs reactive plates vs just regular plates (and I guess ferroscale plates, too).
I've heard that there's really two camps on the issue: you can go full repper (for best effect) or full brick tank. The full repper setup takes advantage of the armor repairer's function of continually repping while being hit, whereas the brick setup usually uses all armor plates and perhaps a reactive plate for some innate repair.
I've heard arguments that a full repper setup is better on a heavy suit (to better augment logi rep tools), while some people have claimed to go full brick setup in that case.
I'm really curious to hear about the community's thoughts on effectiveness/useage of armor tanking modules. Do Gallente setups do best with reppers or brick? The others, with no innate rep, do they need at least a reactive plate/repairer? Do shield tankers typically fill their lows with armor tanking modules, or do shields provide enough tank for speed mods? And for your last question, spread it out. for assault g-1 and g/1-series use 2 reppers and a normal plate, at proto go 2 plates 2 reps
-Open Beta Vet 19 mil sp-
Laser+Flaylock
Dust 514 recruitment link here.
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Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION
764
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Posted - 2014.04.01 22:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
PLAYSTTION wrote:Vespasian Andendare wrote:There's been some discussion lately about the effectiveness of armor repair (vs shield repair). I'm curious to get peoples' opinions on armor repairers vs reactive plates vs just regular plates (and I guess ferroscale plates, too).
I've heard that there's really two camps on the issue: you can go full repper (for best effect) or full brick tank. The full repper setup takes advantage of the armor repairer's function of continually repping while being hit, whereas the brick setup usually uses all armor plates and perhaps a reactive plate for some innate repair.
I've heard arguments that a full repper setup is better on a heavy suit (to better augment logi rep tools), while some people have claimed to go full brick setup in that case.
I'm really curious to hear about the community's thoughts on effectiveness/useage of armor tanking modules. Do Gallente setups do best with reppers or brick? The others, with no innate rep, do they need at least a reactive plate/repairer? Do shield tankers typically fill their lows with armor tanking modules, or do shields provide enough tank for speed mods? And for your last question, spread it out. for assault g-1 and g/1-series use 2 reppers and a normal plate, at proto go 2 plates 2 reps Awesome. Thanks. I think more people should use reppers, although i do feel they could be buffed by a slight bit. 6.25 is hardly noticeable with the dps amounts in the game currently.
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The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback
2647
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Posted - 2014.04.01 22:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
If you armor tank you have toi put reppers on otherwise you are screwed. Except you have a logi babysitt you with a reptool. Well you could aswell go with triage nanohives and nothing as plates but i think thats more or less scrubby
I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
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Melchiah ARANeAE
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
540
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Posted - 2014.04.01 22:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
Reppers could probably use a buff or give the Gallente a bonus to reppers as they're supposed to rely more on armour reps than buffer.
Normal plates need to have the standard and advanced HP nerfed a tad to make the complex plate and other utility mods more rewarding by comparison. Maybe 70/105? And maybe change the way movement penalties are calculated to take the mass of the dropsuit into consideration. It should easy to stack HP onto heavies as that's what they're designed for, but on light frames you should get a hefty penalty if you stack plates. Also, give Amarr suits a significant reduction to movement penalty to encourage stacking plates as they're all about the Armour buffer.
Ferroscales need a good CPU/PG reduction and a slight buff to HP values to make them of any use. Say 50/75/100?
Reactives need a HP and rep buff. Maybe 35/52/70 HP and 1/2/3 reps? The CPU/PG is ok as you're getting two functions in one module.
We want cake and tea.
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Jackof All-Trades
The Black Renaissance
544
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Posted - 2014.04.01 22:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
Personally I prefer to fit everything with one complex rep at minimum, then stack plates or another rep if I feel it's required.
Of course, it's all due to preference. Additionally, with brick tanking still being in the game complex shield coupled with your armour is incredibly useful.
"Pulvis et umbra sums." We are but dust and shadow GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
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Omni-Specialist
/ Focus: Gallente
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Jackof All-Trades
The Black Renaissance
544
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Posted - 2014.04.01 22:19:00 -
[26] - Quote
PLAYSTTION wrote:Vespasian Andendare wrote:There's been some discussion lately about the effectiveness of armor repair (vs shield repair). I'm curious to get peoples' opinions on armor repairers vs reactive plates vs just regular plates (and I guess ferroscale plates, too).
I've heard that there's really two camps on the issue: you can go full repper (for best effect) or full brick tank. The full repper setup takes advantage of the armor repairer's function of continually repping while being hit, whereas the brick setup usually uses all armor plates and perhaps a reactive plate for some innate repair.
I've heard arguments that a full repper setup is better on a heavy suit (to better augment logi rep tools), while some people have claimed to go full brick setup in that case.
I'm really curious to hear about the community's thoughts on effectiveness/useage of armor tanking modules. Do Gallente setups do best with reppers or brick? The others, with no innate rep, do they need at least a reactive plate/repairer? Do shield tankers typically fill their lows with armor tanking modules, or do shields provide enough tank for speed mods? I just made an assault gk.0 with all reps and its really good. 27hp/s. I run 3 enhanced shields and 4 complex reppers with waterer i want as a gun. U run faster than with plates and i get 550hp as a total. As soon as you take damage it just pops back up Genius. Just careful that the scouts don't get with of that
"Pulvis et umbra sums." We are but dust and shadow GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
\
Omni-Specialist
/ Focus: Gallente
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