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RINON114
B.S.A.A.
General Tso's Alliance
562
   |
Posted - 2014.03.31 22:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
In trying to figure out the role an assault suit should play, many people are missing out the key feature behind what an assault is and just suggesting skills based on what they think an assault is or what they would like the suit to do.
So in order to really define the role, I think it would be a good idea to try and define the word as a community. Try and be as succinct as possible, with no copy/paste from dictionary.com (please). Also try not to suggest skill bonuses, although I realise that this may be your only way of demonstrating what best reflects the word in Dust.
To me, the word means GÇ£attackGÇ¥. Whether through physical or mental force. The words GÇ£pressureGÇ¥ and GÇ£agressiveGÇ¥ come to mind immediately as well as images of soldiers storming the beaches of Normandy or the Battle of Berlin. From this I feel that assault suits should be the go to suit when pressing an objective, skill bonuses for which we can figure out once we have defined the meaning.
Thanks for your time guys, make this a good one.
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RINON114
B.S.A.A.
General Tso's Alliance
562
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 22:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:The guy that kicks in the door and hits hard and fast
Perfect, I like it. |
RINON114
B.S.A.A.
General Tso's Alliance
562
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 22:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Savage Mangler wrote:Cannon fodder.
Distractions.
Purveyors of the zerg rush.
Easily knifeable.
On a serious note, they should be the jack of all stats, the quintessntial infantry unit. Mobile enough to get into position, enough firepower to kill opposing units, but requiring more than one truly shine.
I feel like they should have a bonus to their damage based on how many friendles are in their proximity. Some like 2% per friendly, capped out at 10% (five friendlies=full squad=10% bonus damage) promoting concentrated team effort and squad based tactics.
I thought about that but then it incentivises just using the assault role.
I do like where this is going though, quite a few people seem to think that speed and mobility are a deciding factor into the role of an assault. I also like the suggestions of having hit and run abilities and being able to get back into the fight quicker but maybe this steps on the toes of scouts a little? |
RINON114
B.S.A.A.
General Tso's Alliance
562
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 22:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
CUSE TOWN333 wrote:RINON114 wrote:In trying to figure out the role an assault suit should play, many people are missing out the key feature behind what an assault is and just suggesting skills based on what they think an assault is or what they would like the suit to do.
So in order to really define the role, I think it would be a good idea to try and define the word as a community. Try and be as succinct as possible, with no copy/paste from dictionary.com (please). Also try not to suggest skill bonuses, although I realise that this may be your only way of demonstrating what best reflects the word in Dust.
To me, the word means GÇ£attackGÇ¥. Whether through physical or mental force. The words GÇ£pressureGÇ¥ and GÇ£agressiveGÇ¥ come to mind immediately as well as images of soldiers storming the beaches of Normandy or the Battle of Berlin. From this I feel that assault suits should be the go to suit when pressing an objective, skill bonuses for which we can figure out once we have defined the meaning.
Thanks for your time guys, make this a good one.
front line attacking force the tip of the spear. so you would need a suit that has good firepower some speed and able to regain HP fast. so maybe thats why the scout is the new assault because they have all the traits you are looking for in an assault suit i think they should be more recon less assault.
This does seem to be the trend right now, which suggests again that speed an mobility perhaps belong to the assault suit as well. |
RINON114
B.S.A.A.
General Tso's Alliance
563
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 07:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:alten hilt wrote:What if you gave assault suits the following.
Utility weapon Slot: A specially designed slot able to hold AV weapons, a grenade, or knives.
This would give Assault suits a truly assault worthy specialization, able to field a sidearm, a light weapon, AND an AV weapon or a knife or another type of grenade. This would increase their versatility by enabling them to do something no other suit can do. Field three weapons or two weapons and two types of grenades.
EDIT: While still preserving the role of the Commando to hold two light weapons. Maybe the commando would need a grenade slot to balance this out. They would have to add a useful AV weapon then as I think a forge gun would be OP on an assault suit and that is the only good AV weapon at the moment. The Assaults are fine, the issue is there are certain suits like the gallente scout that got over buffed. And Commandos pay for their double light weapon and slightly more ehp by being slow moving fat suits. Sentinels with a Light weapon still generally out perform commandos. There being no useful AV light weapon is part of the reason why most commandos are unnecessary and are just non-competitive fun builds. Logi suits shouldn't be able to have more ehp then an assault suit as well. Assaults are fine, just everything else needs a little tweaking around them.
You don't balance by changing everything else, you change the odd one out. If everything else is the odd one out then explain to me what you think GÇ£odd one outGÇ¥ means. |
RINON114
B.S.A.A.
General Tso's Alliance
563
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 13:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:The Word Assault means to attack with intent. However I don't think that's twhat the definition of the suit is after all.
Scouts don't much scouting
Sentinels are used just as much for Assaults as for Defence.
According to the in-game description Assaults are the back-bone that can complete a variety of different tasks at a moments notice.
So we certainly need a bonus to ALL weapons we can carry, irrespective of race.
Apart from that there is very little this build allows us to do make the Assault so adaptable.
In builds with T3 weapons I would expect Assaults to be able to modify the weapon without needing to change suits(thus without a supply depot)
In builds with Field Commanders I would expect Assaults to be the only class to use a laser designator, to send support requests directly to the MCC
Until then then the Assault is just a jack-of-all-trades.
But that's it, I don't think the assault is a jack of all trades. Logis are the jack of all trades, with all their CPU/PG and equipment slots, they have unparalleled usefulness on the field. Assault suits should be more like a scalpel, able to make swift neat cuts through defenses. |
RINON114
B.S.A.A.
General Tso's Alliance
563
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 15:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:gallente logi
Exactly. The assault role needs to be specialised but the logi just covers all the bases and more. |
RINON114
B.S.A.A.
General Tso's Alliance
566
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 09:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
shadow drake35 wrote:Delta 749 wrote:The guy that kicks in the door and hits hard and fast This is it
To apply this mentality, would we be looking at an armour hardener module with a fitring bonus on assaults? |
RINON114
B.S.A.A.
General Tso's Alliance
566
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 10:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
General12912 wrote:CUSE TOWN333 wrote:RINON114 wrote:In trying to figure out the role an assault suit should play, many people are missing out the key feature behind what an assault is and just suggesting skills based on what they think an assault is or what they would like the suit to do.
So in order to really define the role, I think it would be a good idea to try and define the word as a community. Try and be as succinct as possible, with no copy/paste from dictionary.com (please). Also try not to suggest skill bonuses, although I realise that this may be your only way of demonstrating what best reflects the word in Dust.
To me, the word means GÇ£attackGÇ¥. Whether through physical or mental force. The words GÇ£pressureGÇ¥ and GÇ£agressiveGÇ¥ come to mind immediately as well as images of soldiers storming the beaches of Normandy or the Battle of Berlin. From this I feel that assault suits should be the go to suit when pressing an objective, skill bonuses for which we can figure out once we have defined the meaning.
Thanks for your time guys, make this a good one.
front line attacking force the tip of the spear. so you would need a suit that has good firepower some speed and able to regain HP fast. so maybe thats why the scout is the new assault because they have all the traits you are looking for in an assault suit i think they should be more recon less assault. except that they cant regen it all that well when they are tanking armor hp. and no, i think scouts r the new assault because alot of people didnt like the stats their assault suit was getting, so they went into lvl 5 scout to get their cloaking device. the problem is that such scouts are used to assault, sothey fit their scout like they would an assault suit. making us true scouts few and far between.
But that's the point here, scout suits are being fitted like an assault suit because they excel in the areas that assaults should be good at.
I honestly think that the assault suit needs some new kind of module/equipment as it's base defining role. The scouts have a cloak, heavies can use heavy weapons, logis can fit with versatility but the assault does what? That's the main purpose of the thread really, to define what the word means and to then put that meaning into a skill suggestion.
I for one would like an armour/shield hardener. The assault suit's role bonus would be a 15% per level reduction to CPU/PG use of this module.
Then racial bonuses would stay the same for Amarr and Minmatar, with gallente getting a bonus to RoF and hip-fire dispersion (maybe the Gallente AR needs this bonus built in). As for Caldari, I am unsure. |
RINON114
B.S.A.A.
General Tso's Alliance
567
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
Charlotte O'Dell wrote:Capeable of enduring more than one second of sustained fire from a automatic rifle of the same level.
Should have endurance and speed similar to a scout.
It's strength should be adaptability. Bonuses should be for modules and weapons.
Caldari should get bonuses to rechargers and regulators
Amarr is fine as is.
Gallente is bad. Bonus should be relod speed AND dispersion.
MN should be for damage mods and mobility modules.
Gk.0 should have the best speed compared to ehp. They should be the best suit for being shock troops. A gk0 with a SG should be as terrifying as a scout. Really the worst suit next to mk0 right now.
With assaults, they should really be the middle ground between scouts and heavies, but they just aren't right now. |
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RINON114
B.S.A.A.
General Tso's Alliance
567
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 23:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sarus Rambo wrote:Assault implies more of an attacking role then a defending one. My vision of the Assault would be a suit that has the best Light Weapon DPS over any suit. I believe the Commando more than anything usurps the Assaults proper role.
So how would you change the commando? I would also like to know why you think the assault should be the highest DPS suit. Sure, an assault means to attack but it doesn't mean to kill. Perhaps the assault role is not that of a slayer, but more of a manipulator of circumstances.
I feel like the responses to this thread have given me a good idea of what the assault role should be, with manipulation being chief among the assets one should have.
- Sprint speed/stamina.
- Quick regen.
- Bursts of high resistance.
These three characteristics fit quite well with CCP's vision of what they wanted for tanks, the GÇ£waves of opportunityGÇ¥. If done correctly this will give the assault class a very interesting and defining role.
So how about we start throwing some other ideas around? Like numbers (I will keep bonuses in line with items currently in game). All bonuses that follow are purely for idea generation and should be considered as single bonuses, not as all three in each race's listing.
Assault role bonus(es):
+7% sprint speed/stamina per level.
+2% damage reduction from light weapons per level.
+10% stamina regen per level.
Caldari:
+8% efficacy of shield energizers/rechargers per level.
+5% efficacy of shield extender modules per level.
-15% spool time of rail weaponry per level (wild card).
Gallente:
+10% efficacy of armour repairers per level.
+7% to rate of fire for Gallente weapons per level.
-15% speed penalty of armour plates per level (underwhelming?).
Amarr: Mostly everyone seems happy with these bonuses.
Minmatar: Mostly everyone seems happy with this bonus too.
As I play Gallente I could come up with many more bonuses I would like on my suits, but perhaps some light could be shed on bonuses that you all think might best reflect the three points above.
Cheers guys, keep it coming. |
RINON114
B.S.A.A.
General Tso's Alliance
568
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 08:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:What if we gave assaults 2 new pieces of equipment: a shield booster that functions kind of the cloak (in that its a localized active module with a cooldown) and when activated immediately starts shield recharge but consumes all of the energy on the booster for 80/60/40s, maybe the charges could be shorter and the proto module hold 2 'boosts'. The second being a nanite pump that also functions similarly to the cloak, that when activated drastically increases the effectiveness of local armor repairers (say by 200%) for 10/15/20 seconds with a 60/75/80s rebuild to full charge (the number gets higher per tier but the effective worth in seconds of recharge goes 6/5/4).
In either case you'd actually need to *have* shield recharge or armor repair mods to make the booster or nanite pump valuable to your fit which would mean that logis would still play valuable roles to these suits.
I like these ideas a lot, except for the fact they aren't in game yet. In trying to balance the assault suit we shouldn't really be asking CCP to make new stuff to put in the game. Changing values is a lot less time consuming than concepting an idea, giving it to the art team, going back and forth for a while, then 3d renders and coding and testing - that's a bit much for now IMO. |
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