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Temba Fusrodah
Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru
84
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Posted - 2014.03.31 20:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Once again I have to completely rethink my training for my clones.
I thought this game was no longer Beta.
Nice to login and find I am no longer trained for my favorite suits.
Many of my fits are now invalid.
Should I complain on a free to play game? YES! I bought many of those suits with real world money .
If this is the way things are going to remain, constant virtual restarts of the training schemes I will no longer invest real money and simply be a free to play player.
I now have to sit down and rethink training priorities instead of playing the game, way to go CCP!
Add that to the long time waiting between fights, getting dropped into fights that are almost over, and getting kicked out of fights before they finish and you pretty much have defined a non enjoyable DUST514 player experience.
The amazing thing is that you people are paid to make these awful decisions, repeatedly.
Killing targets since the beta days! A DUST514 Original Gankster!
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Temba Fusrodah
Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru
84
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Posted - 2014.03.31 21:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:You can skill the exact same suits to the exact same points with the exact same ISK. All the ISK and SP from those suits were refunded to you. And you can put them all back in the same place. If you want to. So you are saying the suits that I can currently not use CCP has reimbursed their value in isk and or arum to my account?
Which means I have free stuff in my assets now?
If not what are you saying?
Should I have to retrain every patch? Is that okay with you?
It takes time to think through what your priorities are for training skills, having to redo them at the drop of a patch is not very inviting, I don't live this stuff I just want to enjoy my time in battles and good fights.
Killing targets since the beta days! A DUST514 Original Gankster!
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Temba Fusrodah
Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru
84
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Posted - 2014.04.01 09:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Snatt Aideon wrote:Stop playing then if CCP is so bad... just sayin! I'll just stop putting my money in fanboi.
CCP knows to respect the players, I think they realize we have no representative voice beyond those they hand picked.
I play EVE as well and if they pulled half this crap there they would have open rebellion.
So man up or shut up.
If you do not like what I say do not read it.
CCP can and should do better. If you don't want better that is your call, however it is unwise of you to tell me what to do, ..... just saying!
Killing targets since the beta days! A DUST514 Original Gankster!
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Temba Fusrodah
Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru
84
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Posted - 2014.04.01 09:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Temba, I'm saying you can put the same skill points back into the same skills, and you will be able to use those suits again. They simply gave you the option to redistribute those skills. Yes and it was an exercise I do not wish to repeat multiple times in the future.
Of course they will make changes but they need to do it in a fashion that's the least disruptive to gameplay and the players.
I do not think they gave to sh__s about how we felt about retraining. That is my point, we are being used like it's still Beta.
I want the game to survive and thrive, pissing off players for no good reason is not the way to achieve that.
Killing targets since the beta days! A DUST514 Original Gankster!
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Temba Fusrodah
Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru
84
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Temba, the only reason this happened was because the playerbase had a tantrum about the possibility of not having one. CCP didn't intend to give a respec, but the community demanded one. Realistically, they would've ticked off more players by not doing it. While I of course respect your opinion I do not mistake it for being a proven fact.
Such a minuscule portion of the player base is involved in the forums it would be impossible to say what the community demanded. The fact that when players asked for a respec and CCP denied it, then implemented one for their benefit speaks volumes to how they currently value the DUST514 player base in my opinion.
If you have some inside information into why CCP did what they did please share it and it's source, if you just have some personal ideas/ notions of why they could have done things a certain way please identify them as such.
It would be very very important for any possible CPM member to ALWAYS be able to differentiate between their opinion and the facts CCP has shared with them not subject to the NDA.
Can you do that?
Killing targets since the beta days! A DUST514 Original Gankster!
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Temba Fusrodah
Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru
87
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Posted - 2014.04.02 01:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP has a long record of buffing and nerfing things they have previously implemented in game play to recalibrate the play style to reinforce adherence to what they want players to do instead of what the players want the game to evolve into.
Certainly as the game designers and owner it is their right to do so. I can feel them once again not so gently redirecting game play to what they want it to be. Despite what the actual players may want. I think the CPM becomes valuable in being able to keep CCP informed about what the real player experience is and what real player expectations are. The CPM does not need either corporate apologists or rabble rousing populist rock throwers in my opinion.
A CPM could help bridge the gap between what many of us see as the brilliant future of DUST514 and the awkward sometimes very not enjoyable current state of gameplay. You can not convey that by kissing up to CCP, they are big boys, many of them of strong Viking stock, tell them the truth when they have screwed up and when they hit a home run as well.
The lack of regard they currently demonstrate for the player experience I think endangers the long term success of the game, you do not have to agree with me.
Killing targets since the beta days! A DUST514 Original Gankster!
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Temba Fusrodah
Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru
87
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Posted - 2014.04.02 17:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
Canari Elphus wrote:All it takes is for CCP to finally impliment the player market and this would be a non-issue.
If you have a ton of equipment/suits that you dont wish to use, just drop it on the market and get your money back.
As I stated in another thread, I would be so very happy if the community focused more on solutions than raising complaints about certain scenarios. Current and future CPMs will be much more likely to listen to a player's concern if they have already thought out a rough idea of how to fix the problem that they have. Remember, CPMs are nothing more than player advocates. They are not purposed to have to come up with solutions to problems. Its up to the players to decide on what will make them like the game more. I agree that implementing a player market would solve a lot of problems in DUST514. However CCP has created a problem for themselves due to the super uber rich status of capsuleers compared to the rest of the EVE universe.
Getting those two different scales to match up is going to be close to impossible with a common currency that has a real world value based on Plex sales. CCP would do well to implement another currency based on the more modest means of planetary inhabitants that was scaled to be realistic when buying a single pistol with the same currency that you would want to buy a fully fit Battlecruiser with.
This would allow a player market to flourish that was separate from the isk / plex market of the billionaire capsuleers. I play both EVE and DUST514 and the costs of goods should never be comparable, building a frigate should be infinitely more expensive then the best prototype suit based on mineral content alone.
Killing targets since the beta days! A DUST514 Original Gankster!
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Temba Fusrodah
Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru
87
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Posted - 2014.04.03 17:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Temba, bear in mind that technology in DUST is different. The materials used in DUST equipment is also different.
I can buy a car for less than I paid for my Google Glass device. Why? Because one might be a few decades old, and one is newer and more advanced technology. The "mineral content" of Glass is a minute fraction of that car, but that's not what determines the market value of something. Do you play EVE Online?
It does not sound like you do. Here is a small slice of the lore back story. Many capsuleers have amassed fortunes that rival the economies of entire planets.
I suggest you watch again the animation that reveals the origin of Dust mercs on your game console. The tech that was new was what went into the clone not what the suits were constructed of. The suits are made of the available materials in the EVE universe which capsuleers have been mining, refining, and processing for years now.
Now to the point you unsuccessfully tried to make, in my humble opinion.
When the market value is less then the cost of the materials you should not make the product unless you are a charity.
We are not talking about old cars, the suits the mercs use are made of materials, the weapons capsuleers use are made of materials, in EVE all these materials are mined and processed by players.
As a side note I am an accomplished builder in EVE having made most things under the size of capital ships. I have spent Billions of isk on blueprints and the skill books to use them, and then billions more isk to learn to fly dreads, freighters, carriers, and command ships.
Capsuleers use weapons systems like drones and homing missiles that are arguably at least as complex as our suits,..... and we spend them like bullets buying and using them by the dozens, hundreds, and even thousands.
This is all a part of the complex EVE economy. If you want to say the suits and weapons used by mercs all include some new elements not used in the EVE capsular universe I have not seen that documented by CCP. If they have please provide me with a link.
The complexity and the scale of the EVE economy needs a suitable counterpart in DUST514, with player involvement in the markets literally as far as materials are involved, from the ground up. That is the scale of the challenge facing CCP .... Do you agree or disagree?
Killing targets since the beta days! A DUST514 Original Gankster!
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Temba Fusrodah
Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru
87
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Posted - 2014.04.03 17:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Respecs are typically something that CCP rejects, and while there are several reasons there have been respecs lately, a more responsible approach to development would remove those 'needs' for respecs.
That aside, in the case of respec, perhaps it would be best if CCP gave the option to "revert" and auto-skill into the same skills you had prior to the respec. Obviously if you wanted to make changes it would need to be done manually, but for players like you who want to go back into the same skillset, it would provide for a 1-click option to avoid that inconvenience.
Thank you for taking a reasoned middle ground position.
The CPM does not need any corp apologists who come up with their own notions of why CCP does things that are not based on facts.
The worst case scenario in what you propose as a solution is CCP says no.
At least you would have attempted to make game play more accessible for people like me, I think a CPM candidate should respond to the players interests and not seek to simply become a PR tool of CCP.
Killing targets since the beta days! A DUST514 Original Gankster!
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Temba Fusrodah
Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru
87
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Posted - 2014.04.03 18:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Temba, I've played EVE online for several years. Many things of widely disproportionate material value are made from the same materials. There's a lot more that goes into prices than just materials. Do you build stuff in EVE or just blow stuff up?
Killing targets since the beta days! A DUST514 Original Gankster!
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Temba Fusrodah
Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru
87
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Posted - 2014.04.03 19:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Temba, even if the base materials are mostly the same, think about how Tech 2 ships, for example, are limited. Sure, their hulls are Tritanium like all the others, but there are additional components with much higher value. The availability of those components gates the price for those vessels. Similarly, dropsuits will surely use at least some components unique to DUST.
In fact, they have to. In order to preserve economic balance, DUST suits need to be build primarily with DUST materials, ISK-wise. Maybe a suit requires like one Tritanium to build for the "hull", but a host of special components that can only be acquired in DUST.
And actually... let's throw some lore in here, Temba:
"When set off, the tritanium's contact with air would cause a violent expansion that broke through the bomb's shell along with anything else in the near vicinity." - EVE: The Burning Life, by Hjalti Danielsson
Not sure something that "violently expands" when it touches air is a good thing to build dropsuits out of. So there's your lore evidence that dropsuits use different materials. Clearly you do not build much in EVE.
Obviously tritanium is just one material used in building. Did you notice the Titan that crashed into Caldari Prime? It's huge hull still smolders. There is still question as to whether or not raw tritanium when refined from ore is the volatile mixture that combusts with air, while the tritanium alloys used in ship building are not so much combustible. It would make it difficult to crew ships if no one could use air around the basic building component wouldn't you agree?
Of course you know the ships of EVE piloted by capsuleers have noncapsuleer crew members sometimes numbering in the thousands based on the ship size, I am pretty sure they all breathe air.
You mention that "In order to preserve economic balance, DUST suits need to be build primarily with DUST materials, ISK-wise. Maybe a suit requires like one Tritanium to build for the "hull", but a host of special components that can only be acquired in DUST." is that your opinion or a fact?
I do planetary interaction in EVE where we mine planets and set up factories on every type of planet available in EVE. Hard to imagine a "new" material we would not have access to, but if you know better please provide me the link, I enjoy when I learn new things and expand my understanding.
Killing targets since the beta days! A DUST514 Original Gankster!
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Temba Fusrodah
Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru
87
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Posted - 2014.04.03 19:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
So if crew breathes air clearly the volatile tritanium is not used in any portion of the ship people inhabit. Tritanium is just one material used in building ships and space gear used by capsuleers.
To say that because one material used by capsuleers to build ship hulls in not usable in atmospheres means that some new material required to build suits is not available to capsuleers just does not track in my humble opinion sir.
Killing targets since the beta days! A DUST514 Original Gankster!
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Temba Fusrodah
Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru
87
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Posted - 2014.04.03 19:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Temba Fusrodah wrote:You mention that "In order to preserve economic balance, DUST suits need to be build primarily with DUST materials, ISK-wise. Maybe a suit requires like one Tritanium to build for the "hull", but a host of special components that can only be acquired in DUST." is that your opinion or a fact? This is a fact. The essential point is that EVE's economy could use an ISK sink, and it could use an ISK exchange, but DUST should not allow large amounts of ISK to flow into EVE's economy. If DUST suits, tanks, etc. are largely built with EVE materials, and sold to DUST mercs for ISK, then ISK is flowing into EVE. Also, then DUST's side of the economy will be ISK poor, since they had to send it all to EVE players for things. However, if DUST materials are used, then the EVE industrialist will have to buy those materials from a DUST player (sending ISK to DUST) and then selling those DUST items back to DUST players (sending ISK back to EVE, with a profit margin). As it is, that will entail *some* ISK moving from DUST to EVE, but at a much smaller rate, overall. It's an economic control. And similar to how CCP can adjust rates of items in EVE dropping or being refined to tweak the economy, they can tweak DUST item drop rates to tweak the economy from that end. It allows CCP to ensure the game remains economically stable, and that neither game topples the economy of the other. So even if the hull of the suits are a DUST mineral, the bulk majority of the suits' value needs to come from DUST-specific components, which could come in the form of specific types of circuitry, similar to salvage items in EVE.
With all due respects sir your conclusions are not facts.
They may map out a good way for CCP to proceed but they have not done so yet, which means your speculative conclusions are at best just that, speculative conclusions.
It troubles me that a potential CPM candidate can not discern the difference between objective facts and their own educated speculative conclusions.
Killing targets since the beta days! A DUST514 Original Gankster!
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Temba Fusrodah
Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru
87
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Posted - 2014.04.03 21:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:My point is that if you want to maintain economic balance between two games where ISK will eventually flow freely, ISK flowing to one has to roughly match the ISK flowing back to the other. And since items have value that is exchanged for that ISK, the items flowing from one to the other need to also make a return trip. By ensuring the bulk of the value is brought from DUST to EVE, and then from EVE back to DUST, the balance is preserved. That's economics. Well let's be clear, unless you are claiming now to be an economics expert, the things you claim are "facts" are simply your conclusions, not objective facts correct?
A direct response would be greatly appreciated sir. Preferably one that is not evasive.
Killing targets since the beta days! A DUST514 Original Gankster!
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Temba Fusrodah
Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru
87
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Posted - 2014.04.03 21:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:http://imgur.com/m5T4JYK A truly mature response.
I am sure you will represent players well when elected to the CPM.
As long as they accept your opinions as facts.
I noticed you failed to answer the questions I asked you in your candidate thread also.
I'll try and ask easier questions if that will be more to your skill level to answer.
If you fail having a civil discussion of facts with me a single player how do you think you will fare dealing with the CSM or CCP?
They will not let you peddle bull manure and take you seriously. A vote for you would likely not result in mature representation. However it is better you crashed and burned here before wasting a seat on the CPM.
If you can't take the heat stay away from the kitchen!
Killing targets since the beta days! A DUST514 Original Gankster!
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Temba Fusrodah
Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru
87
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Posted - 2014.04.03 22:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Did I miss questions in my thread? I'll have to go back and look.
To be honest, I gave you a GIF response because I can see what you're trying to do, and I'm not interested in participating. Your notion that I've failed to have a civil discussion with you, is in fact, your opinion. ;) A couple of your responses were somewhat condescending, but I let them go. You present yourself as a candidate, I ask questions about your experience, and I am condescending?
Perhaps it had more to do with the naive nature of your statements then my condescending nature, but that is seeing it from my point of view.
You can see what I'm trying to do?
Is this yet another magical skill you bring to the table?
As a candidate you are not interested in participating. Because to continue to do otherwise you'd have to admit you presented opinions and tried to sell them as facts.
Clearly you can not own up to being wrong. Admitting when you are wrong is one of the most proven paths to resolving conflicts and achieving growth. People who think they know it all never open themselves to learning new things.
Those closed minded people tend to not make very good representatives in my humble opinion.
Perhaps you might be better served to answer questions based on what you believe to be the correct answer without trying to conjure up whatever motivations you want to attribute to the questioner. I do not know you and had no opinion either for or against you. I tip my hat to all those brave enough to toss their hat into the ring, but that does not mean I'll treat you or anyone with kid gloves. Toughen up.
Being a candidate and a representative means you ALWAYS keep your cool, if not you could be baited into a misstep and that does not serve the player base, of which I am a member whether or not you want to participate or not. Are you ready for the responsibility of the CPM?
Your current performance cast serious doubts on that.
Killing targets since the beta days! A DUST514 Original Gankster!
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