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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
2087
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Posted - 2014.03.30 18:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
Aisha Ctarl wrote:Lynn Beck wrote:Currently there is NOTHING the amarr scout can do better than the gallente.
This is not a problem of the gallente being OP, it's the fact the amarr has nothing differentiating it.
Imagine if we gave the amarr scout a 1/5 layout!?
Dayum. Instant game changer.
New armor HP is 880 or so attainable, or 780 with a repper.
It can now sprint almost on par with galscout, it can multitask.
Reasoning behind this: in EVE(the game dusties say to never reference) amarr ships focus more on HP and hardening than gallente, and as such have a 1/1 trade.
Gallente has 2/4, trade a high for a low.
Standard galscout has 2/2(is that how it's supposed to be?) amarr has 1/3
Adv is 2/3 gal, 1/4 amarr.
Proto 2/4 gal, 1/5 amarr. 5 lows...I'd cream my pants
Lol yeah.
It would definitely make the Amarr Scout one of the best go to suits dsince scout mods are low slots. |
Cotsy8
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
178
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Posted - 2014.03.30 18:17:00 -
[32] - Quote
Aisha Ctarl wrote:Imagine yourself as a completely new player. 500K ISK and SP to your name. Since you're new you've searched the web and have come across this chart. You figure you want to go in the scout direction. Mind you, you the reader are viewing this chart as a completely new player. Your options are.... Stay hidden - Pretty good thing for any player Find enemies - Can't kill what you can't find/see Run longer - You're like the energizer bunny, you keep going and going and going...... Hack objectives - The soul purpose of this game Now honestly tell me, out of those four options, who in their right mind would choose "run longer?" Seriously, detach yourself from all of your ISK and SP, close your eyes and think of those four options and seriously tell me, who would honestly choose to run longer. For the love of God CCP, please put a little more thought into the Amarr Scout, and please please PLEASE give it a proper EWAR bonus to put it on par with the other scout suits. I am not saying that the Amarr Scout sucks or is a UP suit in general, I am saying that it sucks and is UP when in comparison to the other scout suits, yes, there is a difference. Now I understand that the Amarr Assault gets a higher stamina value due to the suit being grafted into the nervous system and drawing energy from the host clone yadda yadda yadda, but it is very disturbing that a game development company would think so linearly to simply carry that "bonus" over from one suit role to a completely different suit role. In all seriousness it feels as if you all sat around and were like "Oh, Amarr Assault has a lot of stamina, lets just carry that over to the Scout, btw, we'll make it equivalent to a standard module instead of complex like the other scout bonuses MUAHAHAHA!" Please CCP, I'm begging you, for the name of the Empire, open your eyes and realize what you are doing and what you have done.
You're not wrong when you argue that Amarr scout bonus should be equal to a complex cardiac. You're not wrong when asking for something as trivia as an added 5% counter-hacking or 5% less falling damage or 5% to climbing speed. ( i offer ideas at bottom) Something small, something useful for their sabotage role. There's nothing wrong with playing the game with CCP if you want a better suit but from what I've seen you (and others) ask for, its far too much. You're not being reasonable in what you are asking for and in particular you're not being honest in comparing the scout classes.
What you can't be arguing is the fact that the Amarr scout is worst than the Min Scout (its fair to say the Gal is better, you might even argue the Cal is superior to both due to its unique and powerful role).
What you can't say is the Amarr is the worst suit because you look like a cry baby and someone who doesn't know anything about the classes he is attempting to compare his race to.
The Min suit bonus, which you say is the most important role in the game is a false statement. Hacking is important, but not as important as you make it out to be. It again is a niche role, but it's not as good as the Gal or Cal but still provides an important and niche role to the suit, which Amarr might not have in spades.
Next, there is NK bonus which you failed to mention, that restricts the class but it even restricts one's choice in their primary weapon.
The Min suit slot layout is worst than Amarr (4 low slots are ideal). When comparing the suits at advance tier, the Min Scout is the worst scout, given that not only does it lack the PG but its only released weapon (a Non-Min weapon) lacks a PG reduction skill which only further hinders it. At prototype, the Min suit is more viable but again, due to its slot layout it is still not as good as the Amarr Scout. If you wanted to rank them it would be Gal or Cal followed by Amarr then Min. Sure the Amarr doesn't have a niche (yet) but it doesn't mean its a weak suit. Sure the Amarr racial bonus is bullshit because its not prototype but again, that should be the argument not how Amarr suits are the worst.
Previously, you've made mistakes in attempting to compare your race's build to that of the Gal and its niche. What happened was a comparison of each class trying to be a Gal stealth and you looked dumb. No one can play a Gal role better than a Gal, but second to them would be Amarr (due to slot layout restrictions in Min and Cal). Now arguing that your Amarr suit is not superior to the Min scout suit because hacking is the most important thing in the game is also wrong.
Being able to equip what others can equip (weapon, cloak, modules) is very important, and the Min Adv scout cannot compete on the level of Amarr, Gal, or Cal when either playing their niche or having similar builds. Again, this is a result of its lower PG, lack of PG reduction skill to its racial bonus weapon (which will change), and due to the high PG costs of kin cat, shield extenders, and a std cloak. If you try to equip any strong weapons outside of the CR, it further hinders the build, making the CR the ideal weapon and again forcing another equipment/weapon on the suit. I didn't even have to discuss the higher skill required for NK in positioning or being able to get on top of their foes due to the melee range of their bonus. Point is, stop comparing Amarr suits based on other suits niches, or their overall strength.
Making a strong argument for a complex card is the right way to go, then asking for a trivial boost in a category which fits their role, such as counter-hacking or ability to see equipment at longer ranges. Maybe even getting a WP boost to the saboteur role: counter hacking, hacking vehicles or objectives controlled by the other team, and by destroying equipment, or vehicles. These things seem more reasonable than some of the crazy UP ideas you Amarr have come up with on your threads. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Endless Hatred
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
4566
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Posted - 2014.03.30 18:22:00 -
[33] - Quote
We also have more base eHP on top of that.
If anything, just add sprint speed to the skill bonus.
I am your scan error.
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deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
590
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Posted - 2014.03.30 18:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
i think the ammar scouts ought to get +1% pg/cpu per level
so they can fit their cloaks lasers and and uplinks properly
It'll help define roles, i promise:)
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Scheneighnay McBob
Endless Hatred
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
4566
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Posted - 2014.03.30 18:24:00 -
[35] - Quote
Also, that's a pretty badly made chart.
I am your scan error.
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Leanna Boghin
B.O.D.A.S
35
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Posted - 2014.03.30 18:24:00 -
[36] - Quote
Some day people will realize that complaining on the forums does no good because CCP doesnt bother to read anything any of you type up. If they did read what you typed this update wouldnt have been complete garbage like the last 3 updates before it. As for the amarr scout it wasnt all bad i just used it as a sneak suit with 4 complex profile dampeners a proto dropuplink (the only good one that actually doesnt have a positive timer on it) a proto cloak device shot gun submachine gun and shielding. Just ran around dropping drop uplinks and hiding in plain sight waiting for some poor enemy to walk by and turn his back to me. It works pretty well actually specially if they scan for you before going to that area. You see that scan attempt has been prevented and then you see them. But overall the entire update itself is nothing but one big trolling from CCP. But then again all their updates have been nothing but them trolling us.
I let my sniper rifle bullet to your face do all the talking :P
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Roy Ventus
Axis of Chaos
1541
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Posted - 2014.03.30 19:08:00 -
[37] - Quote
RuckingFetard wrote:Roy Ventus wrote:Aisha Ctarl wrote:Imagine yourself as a completely new player. 500K ISK and SP to your name. Since you're new you've searched the web and have come across this chart. You figure you want to go in the scout direction. Mind you, you the reader are viewing this chart as a completely new player. Your options are.... Stay hidden - Pretty good thing for any player Find enemies - Can't kill what you can't find/see Run longer - You're like the energizer bunny, you keep going and going and going...... Hack objectives - The soul purpose of this game Now honestly tell me, out of those four options, who in their right mind would choose "run longer?" Seriously, detach yourself from all of your ISK and SP, close your eyes and think of those four options and seriously tell me, who would honestly choose to run longer. For the love of God CCP, please put a little more thought into the Amarr Scout, and please please PLEASE give it a proper EWAR bonus to put it on par with the other scout suits. I am not saying that the Amarr Scout sucks or is a UP suit in general, I am saying that it sucks and is UP when in comparison to the other scout suits, yes, there is a difference. Now I understand that the Amarr Assault gets a higher stamina value due to the suit being grafted into the nervous system and drawing energy from the host clone yadda yadda yadda, but it is very disturbing that a game development company would think so linearly to simply carry that "bonus" over from one suit role to a completely different suit role. In all seriousness it feels as if you all sat around and were like "Oh, Amarr Assault has a lot of stamina, lets just carry that over to the Scout, btw, we'll make it equivalent to a standard module instead of complex like the other scout bonuses MUAHAHAHA!" Please CCP, I'm begging you, for the name of the Empire, open your eyes and realize what you are doing and what you have done. Isn't the Amarr Scout supposed to be the best direct combat scout? I skimmed over the post, kinda lazy after reading some other things in the last minute, but generally it sounds like you're comparing the Amarr's function to the other scouts as if it's in the same category. Gallente and Caldari are Intel based, Minmatar is salvage based(I say salvage because hacking should be more than just hacking an objective in the future), and the Amarr should be combat based. o,o But also, tell me what would your EWAR bonus be for the Amarr scout anyway? It's hard translating EVE mantra stuff to the game's design. Hell, I don't even think Minmatar ships have "hacking" as an Ewar focus but it's pretty much in their mantra to be able to take stuff from the enemy and use it as their own. What can the Amarr do that would work as well from EVE to Dust? That's probably a big issue for Dem CCP Boyz. If we give them some ideas(and I do believe the cloak was a player made idea at first too), maybe they'll be willing to change the Amarr scout up to base it around that? Smart are pretty much vampires in EvE so..... Such modules would be appreciated
>.> Well uhh. I just posted an idea thread about it so that the Devs don't forget. They did say we would get them one day. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2003374#post2003374
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
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