DUST Search - Ok ok ok, enough with the tears about balance and nerfs

DEZKA DIABLO wrote:

Me and every other scout since up rising and before got our aces kicked by ccp for almost a year straight with all the changes they made and the 9 months of hell as we waited, it's been what, a week and you girls are crying like your best friend took your boyfriend to prom!

Get over it, before you cry nerf, why don't you form as a group and buff everything else first instead of making the same mistake that was made going from chrome to uprising.

What I mean is suck it up and wait for your buff like we did, balance everything to what we have now, stop nerfing crap before all the cards are on the table, cuz ccp will nerf scouts back to uprising , you'll cry respec and real scouts will still be kicking the crap out of you, you could take the cloak out of the game and we would still kick the crap out of you!

Why?

EWAR THAT'S WHY

We use it , you don't , and 9 months of spinny scans pampered you.
You have no ewar skills or mods cuz you maxed your damage. We all worried about being fast and hiding before damage an months ago we saved all our sp to build the perfect fit.

I run 87 shields and 165 armor and cloak or no cloak I'll still shot gun your head off cuz I know where and where not to be, plain an simple we trained under horrid conditions for a year and all of a sudden were op with one more shield slot, a cloak and better.

Cheers


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Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 163	Posted - 2014.03.30 04:25:00 - [1] - Quote DEZKA DIABLO wrote: Me and every other scout since up rising and before got our aces kicked by ccp for almost a year straight with all the changes they made and the 9 months of hell as we waited, it's been what, a week and you girls are crying like your best friend took your boyfriend to prom! Get over it, before you cry nerf, why don't you form as a group and buff everything else first instead of making the same mistake that was made going from chrome to uprising. What I mean is suck it up and wait for your buff like we did, balance everything to what we have now, stop nerfing crap before all the cards are on the table, cuz ccp will nerf scouts back to uprising , you'll cry respec and real scouts will still be kicking the crap out of you, you could take the cloak out of the game and we would still kick the crap out of you! Why? EWAR THAT'S WHY We use it , you don't , and 9 months of spinny scans pampered you. You have no ewar skills or mods cuz you maxed your damage. We all worried about being fast and hiding before damage an months ago we saved all our sp to build the perfect fit. I run 87 shields and 165 armor and cloak or no cloak I'll still shot gun your head off cuz I know where and where not to be, plain an simple we trained under horrid conditions for a year and all of a sudden were op with one more shield slot, a cloak and better. Cheers Ready? 1. Having a sub-par class prior to 1.8 is not excuse for having a cloak in 1.8 - the advantage it provides, the weaknesses it covers up are far too great. Saying that scouts deserve to be UP now because they were slightly under balanced before is not a valid argument. Its 1.8 now, your struggles before do not matter, what is being discussed is how great are cloaks making bad players, how much cloaks are providing to these players, and how unfair/unrequited a cloak is. CCP recognized scouts were struggling (not everyone was struggling) and provided them with an extra low/high slot, two more scout classes (increase class role, flexibility, adaptability and strength) and a second equipment slot (i be it to either use a cloak, or not). So scouts got a boost in 1.8 without a cloak. The cloak was not necessary to make scouts viable, most scouts were fine prior to cloaks and there's nothing wrong with a high risk high reward class based on skillful gameplay. If you're not skilled, you should struggle. 2. cloaks cover up for poor judgment and awareness in hacking, climbing, selecting wrong targets, selecting too many targets, running across open terrain, poor flanking, and camping. The cloak rewards bad decisions and bad gameplay by limiting the opportunity for a player to be punished for his poor gameplay by simply turning on his crutch (his cloak) and doing whatever he wants. Sure, players can be killed, hit, found but a cloak lessens this chance and while decreasing the need for map awareness, and strategy. So defensively, the cloak is a powerhouse. It allows poor gameplay and rewards players by allowing them to accomplish things faster (listed above). It is also less time consuming for scouts which increases the reward of using one. 2b) so defensively the cloaks is amazing, but offensively it is also amazing. As discussed, the cloak allows players who make poor decisions in pathing, movement, flanking, selecting targets to gain the upper hand in the majority of situations based strictly on their cloak. There is no skill required to get on top of someone, or get the jump on someone.. Instead one simply selects a cloak and rushes to the front lines to find a target. There is no need to be strategic because a cloak provides an immediate advantage whiteout skill. Offensively, it takes minimum effort and skill to provide a strong advantage. Skilled play furthers this advantage. 3. cloaking covers up major flaws in a scouts game. It simply doesn't make up for the lack of eHP of the suit, the suit is suppose to be fast and fragile. The skill of a scout is using movement, strategy, and thought when selectively choosing a gun fight. This is not to say that scouts should be slayers, this is not to say scouts shouldn't be a viable class. What a scout can be is determined by the skill of the player in choosing his spots carefully and making correct decisions. As discussed in 2b) skilled gameplay furthers an advantage, but in reality the cloak is not required. A skill scout can sneak up (and has been sneaking up on players since i started in open beta). It's not like all of a sudden cloaks made scouts be able to sneak up on people, instead it just provided an easy button. So instead of rewarding skill, it covers up the lack of skillful movement and positioning. And any single item which decreases the skill required so dramatically is a crutch and OP by the very nature of its definition. A good scouts doesnt need a cloak when his positioning and gameplay is skilled, thought out and selective. Which means a cloak is not required, it means it is useless and a crutch which supports bad decisions. So we've discussed scouts had a boost without needing cloaks, and that scouts were viable before the boosts and maybe not having an easy mode button is a good thing for a game or a class. We discussed defensive and offensive advantages for cloak users, we've discussed how cloaks reward bad gameplay and how scouts were not being punished for bad decisions and how cloaks are low risk and high reward. I'm very sure all your arguments for a cloak are invalid. You seem to be a **** player before the 1.8 patch and all of a sudden things turned around for you and you became the new Logi slayer 2.0 and love it. Isn't that the problem?! A simple cloak has turned a whole bunch of bad to mediocre players into viable slayers dominating a match by killing opponents and charging the front lines to rack up kills. You're stupid stupid arguments are just bullshit. You are just happy you don't suck anymore.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 163	Posted - 2014.03.30 04:35:00 - [2] - Quote I forgot to mention, but was mentioned in a post above mine. You sound like tankers 2.0 - deny deny deny. Nothing is wrong with rewarding **** gameplay and making scout UP by simply turning on their easy mode button. And you said in my humble opinion... Which is hilarious because its neither honest, objective, thought out, valid or by any means is as detailed as mine is. Take 5 minutes to read my text blocks, let me lay some knowledge on you young scout. Let me show you that scouts before had no reason to use a cloak to sneak up on foes or be viable or downright dominate the battlefield. I would live a reply, but don't worry. I've been posting comments about cloaks for 4 days now and not a single person can bring up a reason or even justify why cloaks were used. If you want to use their "reasoning" please feel free to answer in the following manners: "Eye are OP", "get good", "they help me be great" or my favourite "eve has cloaks". There is no reason to have an easy button which lessens risk, provides high rewards and has 0 drawbacks to using. Activate run towards front lines, slay foes, repeat until you are 13-4.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 168	Posted - 2014.03.30 06:26:00 - [3] - Quote Cogadh Draco wrote: I agree with Costie's explanation on the in/out of the cloaking ability. Personally I only ever knew of maybe around five or six memorable scouts(and a couple Minmatar Logis) that could pick 'n choose their targets in a dangerous situation, and shame the best of players WITHOUT cloak. Otherwise the rest just tried to throw a detpack at me or rush me in the open without a forethought of strategy. Yet now that cloak is available, even a burk can sneak up and kill professionals like as if we just recently started the game... I'm not saying all forms of cloaking is idiocy based skill, there are good scouts/opportunists. However, when you see memorable scouts that were crap at getting kills or WPs suddenly outscore everyone else because of cloak... Yeah you know it's gonna get overused and be used as an easy mode crutch... Hell, I've already heard of certain Corps throwing in a 10+ man/woman scout/cloak runners for PCs while the other few are just cannon fodder for the cloakers to go back stabbing the people gunning for 'em... Cloak is a pretty neat feature, and it'll take time for the overusage of cloak to go down, but until then here we forums lurkers remain upon this subject lol. I am having a blast with cloaks, i am not saying they aren't fun, i am having so much fun doing well but at whose expense? I strongly believe the game biggest error is matchmaking balance (i like a tier system based on WP/SP), i believe a multi tier system would solve many problems in dust including new player experience and ability to defend against Proto stomps. After matchmaking, class/weapon balance should be a priority. That means balancing assaults (lots of great threads with good suggestions), keeping sniping viable (commandos people, use em), fixing vehicle domination (this will come gradually), and finally helping real logi's. I like adding +1 nades to assault and having maybe rof + reload on assaults to make them viable killers but not to the power of a commando or you can start playing around with mod boosts. I don't like new Logi nerf's, instead I would just have made each Logi race has a set equipment slot which had to be used for their class' unique equipment. Scouts should lose cloaks. That should balance the classes. Weapons are fairly balanced. Some say HMG is slightly strong, but i think that was the plan.