DUST Search - Could we get more sheild from extenders again please

Joseph Ridgeson wrote:

The thing that sucks with Shields isn't the number of health it gives per se but the incredibly terrible advancement rate and rough fitting cost.

Extenders go 22/33/66. That is an advancement of 50% and then 100%. Jagged.
Plates go 85/110/135. That is an advancement of 29.4% and then 22.7%. Fairly smooth.

Basic Plate: 10 CPU, 1 PG
Advanced Plate: 20 CPU, 6 PG
Complex Plate: 30 CPU, 12 PG

Basic Extender: 18/3
Advanced Extender: 36/6
Complex Extender: 54/11

It is significantly more difficult to fit Shield Extenders than it is to fit Plates. Every Assault suit has 5 times as much CPU as it does PG, exactly that amount with the exception of the Advanced Minmatar which is 4.97 times are much CPU as PG. In that case, by switching from a Complex Shield Extender to a Complex Armor Hardener, you are "spending 1 PG for 24 CPU." If we accept that Complex Plates and Complex Extenders give the same amount of "defense" (Plates gaining more raw HP than Shields but Shields being able to regenerate), it is in no way balanced that for 1 extra PG the Plate saves 24 CPU.

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JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game 235	Posted - 2014.03.29 12:39:00 - [1] - Quote The basic armor plate gives off so much hp but the sheilds need advance to match that. Caldari Loyalist I speak for the rabbits
xSir Campsalotx G0DS AM0NG MEN D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 173	Posted - 2014.03.29 12:42:00 - [2] - Quote i say no (im a cal scout) G0DS AM0NG MEN Director 1.8 is going to be Heavy 514 they said... Looking around all I see are twig men
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game 235	Posted - 2014.03.29 12:47:00 - [3] - Quote actually I was wrong basic plates have 83 hp advance extenders have 33 advance plates have 110 Caldari Loyalist I speak for the rabbits
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game 235	Posted - 2014.03.29 12:50:00 - [4] - Quote xSir Campsalotx wrote: i say no (im a cal scout) Whats your reason for objection dont say ''no'' with no reasoning. Caldari Loyalist I speak for the rabbits
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 2281	Posted - 2014.03.29 12:53:00 - [5] - Quote JARREL THOMAS wrote: The basic armor plate gives off so much hp but the sheilds need advance to match that. Armor is supposed to have more HP......... For the Federation!
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game 235	Posted - 2014.03.29 13:00:00 - [6] - Quote And sheild is supposed to have less and get shat upon by everything?sheilds are already weaker why do we need less aswell? Caldari Loyalist I speak for the rabbits
Kiiran-B The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 215	Posted - 2014.03.29 13:07:00 - [7] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: JARREL THOMAS wrote: The basic armor plate gives off so much hp but the sheilds need advance to match that. Armor is supposed to have more HP......... But you can run pretty much just as fast as me. You have the same speed, more HP, and your HP is worth more. Cal suits need a buff on HP and on speed. I don't want to dual tank anymore, I want to shield tank alone and have all the benefits of it: speed and fast regen. But that can't happen unless the differences of shield and armour are readdressed.
TBdaBoss ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 37	Posted - 2014.03.29 13:12:00 - [8] - Quote No. Armor kills your speed, shields do not. Armor (unless using a rep mod) does not self-repair, and if you are self repairing, it is painfully, slow. You get your shields back in a few seconds. Quit whining. WE WERE GODS ONCE
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 846	Posted - 2014.03.29 14:20:00 - [9] - Quote The thing that sucks with Shields isn't the number of health it gives per se but the incredibly terrible advancement rate and rough fitting cost. Extenders go 22/33/66. That is an advancement of 50% and then 100%. Jagged. Plates go 85/110/135. That is an advancement of 29.4% and then 22.7%. Fairly smooth. Basic Plate: 10 CPU, 1 PG Advanced Plate: 20 CPU, 6 PG Complex Plate: 30 CPU, 12 PG Basic Extender: 18/3 Advanced Extender: 36/6 Complex Extender: 54/11 It is significantly more difficult to fit Shield Extenders than it is to fit Plates. Every Assault suit has 5 times as much CPU as it does PG, exactly that amount with the exception of the Advanced Minmatar which is 4.97 times are much CPU as PG. In that case, by switching from a Complex Shield Extender to a Complex Armor Hardener, you are "spending 1 PG for 24 CPU." If we accept that Complex Plates and Complex Extenders give the same amount of "defense" (Plates gaining more raw HP than Shields but Shields being able to regenerate), it is in no way balanced that for 1 extra PG the Plate saves 24 CPU. "People that quote themselves in signatures confuse me." -Joseph Ridgeson
Mordecai Sanguine What The French Red Whines. 540	Posted - 2014.03.29 14:22:00 - [10] - Quote JARREL THOMAS wrote: The basic armor plate gives off so much hp but the sheilds need advance to match that. No. Shields have integrated huge Regen. That's why they have a lower ehp. the Ferroscales plates which have no speed penality (like extender) have same ehp amount but with bigger CPU/PG demand.

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 7847	Posted - 2014.03.29 14:23:00 - [11] - Quote While STD and ADV extenders are problematic, at prototype shield tanking is JUST as viable as prototype armor tanking. My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone. If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 7847	Posted - 2014.03.29 14:24:00 - [12] - Quote And no, shields aren't "weaker". There are actually more anti armor damage types than there are shield ones. My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone. If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 7847	Posted - 2014.03.29 14:27:00 - [13] - Quote Kiiran-B wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: JARREL THOMAS wrote: The basic armor plate gives off so much hp but the sheilds need advance to match that. Armor is supposed to have more HP......... But you can run pretty much just as fast as me. You have the same speed, more HP, and your HP is worth more. Cal suits need a buff on HP and on speed. I don't want to dual tank anymore, I want to shield tank alone and have all the benefits of it: speed and fast regen. But that can't happen unless the differences of shield and armour are readdressed. Didn't know 0.4m/s difference is just as fast. That's almost the difference between an assault and a scout And all I'm using is two enhanced plates. Not to mention that the strafe speed penalty is actually double, because of CCP math. The HP isn't "worth more", the most popular weapons are anti armor, and there are more anti armor damage types than shield damage types. And the base recharge of the Caldari assault is pretty much more than I can ever dream of in my Gallente assault, and the delays haven't been rebalanced yet on medium frames, expect faster delays SoonTM. My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone. If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 2287	Posted - 2014.03.29 14:27:00 - [14] - Quote Kiiran-B wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: JARREL THOMAS wrote: The basic armor plate gives off so much hp but the sheilds need advance to match that. Armor is supposed to have more HP......... But you can run pretty much just as fast as me. You have the same speed, more HP, and your HP is worth more. Cal suits need a buff on HP and on speed. I don't want to dual tank anymore, I want to shield tank alone and have all the benefits of it: speed and fast regen. But that can't happen unless the differences of shield and armour are readdressed. So me running at 20% less speed than you is just as fast? You having about 25% to sometimes no HP difference than me yet I run slower and you rep 60% faster I still am better really? Get your facts straight. There is a reason why Gallente ships are faster than Caldari ships. Play to your suits strength don't rush into battle think your going to tank 2 guys at once, not even a max tanked armor suit is this stupid. For the Federation!
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 295	Posted - 2014.03.29 14:28:00 - [15] - Quote But Std Armor Plates are the jewel of tanking so that is where the problem lies. Even Adv is still very affordable fitting wise "Shine bright like a diamond"
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 7847	Posted - 2014.03.29 14:30:00 - [16] - Quote Master Smurf wrote: But Std Armor Plates are the jewel of tanking so that is where the problem lies. Even Adv is still very affordable fitting wise It's bad scaling yes. But that does not mean proto shields need a buff too, they're perfectly balanced with armor. The top players I encounter in PC shield tank. My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone. If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 555	Posted - 2014.03.29 14:33:00 - [17] - Quote TBdaBoss wrote: No. Armor kills your speed, shields do not. Armor (unless using a rep mod) does not self-repair, and if you are self repairing, it is painfully, slow. You get your shields back in a few seconds. Quit whining. way more than a few seconds like usually 10 atleast and yall can just have a friend heal you in like 5 with a repair tool BACON my recruiter link
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 2287	Posted - 2014.03.29 14:35:00 - [18] - Quote deepfried salad gilliam wrote: TBdaBoss wrote: No. Armor kills your speed, shields do not. Armor (unless using a rep mod) does not self-repair, and if you are self repairing, it is painfully, slow. You get your shields back in a few seconds. Quit whining. way more than a few seconds If you can't wait 20 seconds to repair then thats your own problem. For the Federation!
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 2287	Posted - 2014.03.29 14:36:00 - [19] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Master Smurf wrote: But Std Armor Plates are the jewel of tanking so that is where the problem lies. Even Adv is still very affordable fitting wise It's bad scaling yes. But that does not mean proto shields need a buff too, they're perfectly balanced with armor. The top players I encounter in PC shield tank. Fixing the scaling would kill armor tanking though since there is no way in hell I will stick more than 1 complex plate in any fit ever If I only we had rolled tungsten For the Federation!
Odigos Ellinas Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 23	Posted - 2014.03.29 14:36:00 - [20] - Quote Plates have speed penalty and no auto repair !!! Shields have NO speed penalty and a fast regeneration.

deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 555	Posted - 2014.03.29 14:46:00 - [21] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: deepfried salad gilliam wrote: TBdaBoss wrote: No. Armor kills your speed, shields do not. Armor (unless using a rep mod) does not self-repair, and if you are self repairing, it is painfully, slow. You get your shields back in a few seconds. Quit whining. way more than a few seconds If you can't wait 20 seconds to repair then thats your own problem. well in that 20 seconds a gallente medium frame with 1 complex extender will heal 165 hp now also take into account it was healing while taking fire he can throw down a nano hive that instant repairs his friend can heal him with a repair tool BACON my recruiter link
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 7852	Posted - 2014.03.29 14:52:00 - [22] - Quote deepfried salad gilliam wrote: TBdaBoss wrote: No. Armor kills your speed, shields do not. Armor (unless using a rep mod) does not self-repair, and if you are self repairing, it is painfully, slow. You get your shields back in a few seconds. Quit whining. way more than a few seconds like usually 10 atleast and yall can just have a friend heal you in like 5 with a repair tool CCP didn't get a chance to rebalance delays on medium frames. Look at heavies and scouts, their delays are at most 5 on Caldari. Besides, my armor suit takes 80 seconds to fully repair, cry me a river. My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone. If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2475	Posted - 2014.03.29 14:53:00 - [23] - Quote deepfried salad gilliam wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: deepfried salad gilliam wrote: TBdaBoss wrote: No. Armor kills your speed, shields do not. Armor (unless using a rep mod) does not self-repair, and if you are self repairing, it is painfully, slow. You get your shields back in a few seconds. Quit whining. way more than a few seconds If you can't wait 20 seconds to repair then thats your own problem. well in that 20 seconds a gallente medium frame with 1 complex extender will heal 165 hp now also take into account it was healing while taking fire he can throw down a nano hive that instant repairs his friend can heal him with a repair tool And you can heal 30/s inherently while relocating faster than he can chase you. And a flux is now far more deadly for him, because he's sacrificed mobility and placement for the dubious active tank of nanohives. ak.0 4 LYFE CCP GIB LANCE TURRET PLOX LET ME MELEE PEOPLE WITH MY STEED
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 7852	Posted - 2014.03.29 14:54:00 - [24] - Quote deepfried salad gilliam wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: deepfried salad gilliam wrote: TBdaBoss wrote: No. Armor kills your speed, shields do not. Armor (unless using a rep mod) does not self-repair, and if you are self repairing, it is painfully, slow. You get your shields back in a few seconds. Quit whining. way more than a few seconds If you can't wait 20 seconds to repair then thats your own problem. well in that 20 seconds a gallente medium frame with 1 complex extender will heal 165 hp now also take into account it was healing while taking fire he can throw down a nano hive that instant repairs his friend can heal him with a repair tool 125HP The AR produces 8,250 damage in 20 seconds, so it doesn't really matter. Nanohives have been heavily nerfed, and their HP is so low, you can sneeze at one and cut off that person's regen. (I do it all the time) His friend is a meatbag that can be killed. His weapon can do much more DPS than he can repair his own friend. My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone. If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 295	Posted - 2014.03.29 15:02:00 - [25] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Master Smurf wrote: But Std Armor Plates are the jewel of tanking so that is where the problem lies. Even Adv is still very affordable fitting wise It's bad scaling yes. But that does not mean proto shields need a buff too, they're perfectly balanced with armor. The top players I encounter in PC shield tank. Fixing the scaling would kill armor tanking though since there is no way in hell I will stick more than 1 complex plate in any fit ever If I only we had rolled tungsten I am not saying change armor HP values - increase fitting costs. On the shield side - increase HP for the std and adv maybe or decrease some fitting cost for all of them PG wise Also in the argument - dont forget to mention that while shields self regenerate quickly, they dont went taking damage. They also have a longer delay when depleted. Armor can be repped while taking damage by using a repper, repair tool or hive. Shields can also be totally dropped by one flux. It isnt as simplistic as speed penalty vs nothing. "Shine bright like a diamond"
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 2293	Posted - 2014.03.29 15:05:00 - [26] - Quote Master Smurf wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Master Smurf wrote: But Std Armor Plates are the jewel of tanking so that is where the problem lies. Even Adv is still very affordable fitting wise It's bad scaling yes. But that does not mean proto shields need a buff too, they're perfectly balanced with armor. The top players I encounter in PC shield tank. Fixing the scaling would kill armor tanking though since there is no way in hell I will stick more than 1 complex plate in any fit ever If I only we had rolled tungsten I am not saying change armor HP values - increase fitting costs. On the shield side - increase HP for the std and adv maybe or decrease some fitting cost for all of them PG wise Also in the argument - dont forget to mention that while shields self regenerate quickly, they dont went taking damage. They also have a longer delay when depleted. Armor can be repped while taking damage by using a repper, repair tool or hive. Shields can also be totally dropped by one flux. It isnt as simplistic as speed penalty vs nothing. Reduce CPU for armor, increase PG Increase CPU for shields, decrease PG Increase HP of enhanced extender. That is all that is required. Any other nerfs and you WILL require a bigger, and better penalty and less passive regen. For the Federation!
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game 235	Posted - 2014.03.30 01:42:00 - [27] - Quote TBdaBoss wrote: No. Armor kills your speed, shields do not. Armor (unless using a rep mod) does not self-repair, and if you are self repairing, it is painfully, slow. You get your shields back in a few seconds. Quit whining. Then fit an armor reper (advance) Caldari Loyalist I speak for the rabbits
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 1974	Posted - 2014.03.30 02:25:00 - [28] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: The thing that sucks with Shields isn't the number of health it gives per se but the incredibly terrible advancement rate and rough fitting cost. Extenders go 22/33/66. That is an advancement of 50% and then 100%. Jagged. Plates go 85/110/135. That is an advancement of 29.4% and then 22.7%. Fairly smooth. Basic Plate: 10 CPU, 1 PG Advanced Plate: 20 CPU, 6 PG Complex Plate: 30 CPU, 12 PG Basic Extender: 18/3 Advanced Extender: 36/6 Complex Extender: 54/11 It is significantly more difficult to fit Shield Extenders than it is to fit Plates. Every Assault suit has 5 times as much CPU as it does PG, exactly that amount with the exception of the Advanced Minmatar which is 4.97 times are much CPU as PG. In that case, by switching from a Complex Shield Extender to a Complex Armor Hardener, you are "spending 1 PG for 24 CPU." If we accept that Complex Plates and Complex Extenders give the same amount of "defense" (Plates gaining more raw HP than Shields but Shields being able to regenerate), it is in no way balanced that for 1 extra PG the Plate saves 24 CPU. Team carry Prof. IV I am a carried scrub!
Seigfried Warheit Caught Me With My Pants Down 283	Posted - 2014.03.30 11:35:00 - [29] - Quote Odigos Ellinas wrote: Plates have speed penalty and no auto repair !!! Shields have NO speed penalty and a fast regeneration. fast my ass only for scouty Also basic and adv shields need a hp buff proto is fine
BIind Shot Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad. 83	Posted - 2014.03.30 11:39:00 - [30] - Quote I think shields needs slight buff to hp and cut some of the pg cost. I think plates need to have pg cost increase. and he said unto them, "Bring ye all your trolls, that they shall feed".



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