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The-Errorist
591
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Posted - 2014.03.28 12:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
On an Incubus, you can have a basic afterburner, an advanced missile turret, and stack the low slots with 1 basic heavy and 2 complex armor repair modules to get 312.5 HP/s repair rate. Keep in mind that a shield tank only repairs at 168 HP/s when not under fire that at least does 102 alpha damage.
A proto assault forge-gunner with lv5 everything with 2 complex heavy damage mods can deal roughly 388 HP/s (reload time factored in) to armor if all the shots hit. The Incubus would be able to rep most of that damage and with it's 2362 armor, it would be able to stay there for quite some time and be able to easily kill the forge-gunner without taking much damage. Two assault forge-gunners would be able to take out the dropship in 5 seconds only if all the shots hit and only if one of the forge-gunners doesn't get killed. If you have 3 of those assault forge-gunners, it would take 2.77s if all of the forge-gunners where able to live that long and not miss a shot.
For an armor tank user, the situation is the similar; one can fit a neutron blaster, a complex armor hardener, 1 complex and basic heavy armor repairer, and get a repair rate of 331.25 HP/s. It has a slightly higher rep rate than the incubus, but it a complex armor hardener which with lv5 engine core calibration and core grid management, the hardener giving 25% damage resistance lasting 45s, which would take 37.5s to cooldown. It would take at least 4.71s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 3 forge-gunners and thats not even taking the hardener into account.
Basically, something needs to be done about vehicle armor repair modules. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
10160
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Posted - 2014.03.28 13:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
That does sound scary
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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The-Errorist
602
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Posted - 2014.03.30 00:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
I found another incubus fit that's better. Have the same stuff as a above, bit put 2 enhanced heavy armor repairers and a complex PG upgrade and you'll get a 331.25 HP/s repair rate. |
Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Dirt Nap Squad.
4960
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Posted - 2014.03.30 00:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:On an Incubus, you can have a basic afterburner, an advanced missile turret, and stack the low slots with 1 basic heavy and 2 complex armor repair modules to get 312.5 HP/s repair rate. Keep in mind that a shield tank only repairs at 168 HP/s when not under fire that at least does 102 alpha damage.
A proto assault forge-gunner with lv5 everything with 2 complex heavy damage mods can deal roughly 388 HP/s (reload time factored in) to armor if all the shots hit. The Incubus would be able to rep most of that damage and with it's 2362 armor, it would be able to stay there for quite some time and be able to easily kill the forge-gunner without taking much damage. Two assault forge-gunners would be able to take out the dropship in 5 seconds only if all the shots hit and only if one of the forge-gunners doesn't get killed. If you have 3 of those assault forge-gunners, it would take 2.77s if all of the forge-gunners where able to live that long and not miss a shot.
For an armor tank user, the situation is the similar; one can fit a neutron blaster, a complex armor hardener, 1 complex and basic heavy armor repairer, and get a repair rate of 331.25 HP/s. It has a slightly higher rep rate than the incubus, but it a complex armor hardener which with lv5 engine core calibration and core grid management, the hardener giving 25% damage resistance lasting 45s, which would take 37.5s to cooldown. It would take at least 4.71s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 3 forge-gunners to kill that tank and that's not even taking the hardener into account.
Basically, something needs to be done about vehicle armor repair modules.
To put this in perspective, myself and 3 other members of the 1st Airborne in-game chat that Judge Rhadamanthus created were all using our Enhanced and Complex fit Pythons in a squad together in a Skirmish match.
A Dropship pilot - I believe it was Derpty Derp - came up in an Incubus fitted with repair modules similar to what The Errorist described on the other team.
What followed was the 4 of us chasing this Incubus all over the map unable to kill it because of its high repair rate.
Eventually, after he did a lot of damage to me, I turned toward our ground spawn and flew back to it over the central complex in a straight, level line. He took the bait, came in behind me, and then got dived on by the other three Pythons, and we finally took him down.
I think the current mechanics of the armor repair modules could use some looking at.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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The-Errorist
602
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Posted - 2014.03.30 01:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
I updated the OP with more information, fittings. and made it look neater. |
Starfire Revo
DUST University
Ivy League
192
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Posted - 2014.03.30 01:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:I think the current mechanics of the armor repair modules could use some looking at.
This sounds more like a balance issue than a mechanic issue to be honest. Maybe the PG on dropships and repairers need tweaked a bit.
I make videos of EVE and Dust http://www.youtube.com/mrgimbleb
I write about EVE and Dust http://mrgimbleb.blogspot.com
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The-Errorist
602
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Posted - 2014.03.30 04:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
I have taken the time to tweak PG/CPU values of the standard, advanced, and prototype light armor repair modules.
You can see how it would affect fittings on my modified version of Harpyja's Vehicle fitting tool.
I will edit this post when I make changes to it |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
10214
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Posted - 2014.04.01 15:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:Something needs to be done about vehicle armor repair modules; they are way too effective and for the amount of PG/CPU they take up. A proto assault forge-gunner with lv5 everything with 2 complex heavy damage mods can deal roughly 388 HP/s (reload time factored in) to armor if all the shots hit. Keep in mind that a shield tank can only recharge shields at 168 HP/s when it's not under fire from stuff that deals at least 102 alpha damage. [Incubus]Adv neutron blaster bsc afterburner cpx heavy armor repairer adv heavy armor repairer cpx PG upgrade Armor HP: 2362 Repair rate: 331.25 HP/s To kill that dropship it would take: 41.6s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 1 forge-gunner. 5.3s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 2 forge-gunners. 2.8s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 3 forge-gunners.
[Madrugar]Adv neutron blaster cpx complex armor hardener - duration:45s cooldown:37.5s cpx heavy armor repairer adv heavy armor repairer Armor HP: 4000 Repair rate: 331.25 HP/s To kill that tank when the the hardener is cooling down: 70.5s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 1 forge-gunners. 9s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 2 forge-gunners. 4.8s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 3 forge-gunners. To kill that tank when it activated its harder it would take: 115.5s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 1 forge-gunners. 16s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 2 forge-gunners. 7.38s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 3 forge-gunners.
[Madrugar]Adv neutron blaster 2 cpx armor repair adv heavy repairers Armor HP: 4000 Repair rate: 512.5 HP/s To kill that tank it would take: 1 forgegunner will never be able kill it.15.18s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 2 forge-gunners. 6.14s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 3 forge-gunners.
Here's my attempt at fixing this problem.
The-Errorist wrote:I have taken the time to tweak PG/CPU values of the standard, advanced, and prototype light armor repair modules. You can see how it would affect fittings on my modified version of Harpyja's Vehicle fitting tool. I will edit this post when I make changes to it
Basic light armor repair PG:14 CPU:280 Advanced light armor repair PG:56 CPU:392 Complex light armor repair PG:72 CPU:504
You've put a lot of work into this, +1
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Odigos Ellinas
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
35
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Posted - 2014.04.02 03:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
Armor repairs are not working will under fire.
1.8 broud a good balance to HAV/infantry. If i can take a HAV (madrugar/gunlogi) with advanced swarms you should not have a problem with a forge gun. |
Dunce Masterson
Savage Bullet
69
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Posted - 2014.04.02 03:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
This sounds like a QQ'n my shield hardeners got balanced with armor tanks now i want to ruin the armor tanks game by crying.
if you want to run solo then don't cry on the forums some tank set ups will ruin infantry's day while they will have to run from a skilled rail tank operator.
I don't even know why I bother.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
9187
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Posted - 2014.04.02 03:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
The only thing that can be done is penalise the stacking of modules otherwise you unbalance those tankers like me who only run a single repper.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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Funkmaster Whale
Ancient Exiles.
1690
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Posted - 2014.04.02 04:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
The best suggestion I've seen to fixing these types of problems altogether is to introduce vehicle capacitance.
Vehicle armor reps would then be converted into zero-cooldown active modules that would drain a vehicle's capacitance over time. Hardeners would also be bound to a similar mechanic and with this you'd create CCP's purported "window of opportunity" mechanic by allowing the tank to function 100% optimally while he can play with activating/deactivating modules but be bound to an energy limit with both repair and hardening (and whatever other modules you could include).
Right now armor reps have like zero disadvantage. Vehicle's should take on EVE's capacitor mechanic soon. They talked about it at one point I believe but it never really came to fruition.
Let me play you the song of my people!
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Dunce Masterson
Savage Bullet
69
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Posted - 2014.04.02 04:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
they could have modified the shield boosters to act the same way armor reps are acting now.
I don't even know why I bother.
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Alena Ventrallis
PAND3M0N1UM
Lokun Listamenn
1095
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Posted - 2014.04.02 04:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
I want to see your math on the forge gun damage to armor. Because that number is way low.
Since were going off proto, let's look at the AFG.
1500 base damage. 15% from proficiency and ~9% from 2 complex mods, to account for stacking penalties. Now add on the innate 10% bonus damage forges get. So we have:
1500 + (1500*0.1 [innate bonus]) + (1500*0.15 [prof bonus]) + (1500*0.09[damage mods]) = 1500 + 150 + 225 + 135 = 2010 damage per shot.
Now we divide this by the 2.25 second charge time (3 seconds base with the 25% charge reduction from the skill) to get 893 DPS against armor.
Best PVE idea I've seen.
Fixed link.
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Dunce Masterson
Savage Bullet
71
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Posted - 2014.04.02 05:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:I want to see your math on the forge gun damage to armor. Because that number is way low.
Since were going off proto, let's look at the AFG.
1500 base damage. 15% from proficiency and ~9% from 2 complex mods, to account for stacking penalties. Now add on the innate 10% bonus damage forges get. So we have:
1500 + (1500*0.1 [innate bonus]) + (1500*0.15 [prof bonus]) + (1500*0.09[damage mods]) = 1500 + 150 + 225 + 135 = 2010 damage per shot.
Now we divide this by the 2.25 second charge time (3 seconds base with the 25% charge reduction from the skill) to get 893 DPS against armor.
its not possible to out rep that damage even if armor tanks could fit 3 complex armor reps @ 543.75 HP/PS it would take 5 complex armor reps @ 906.25 to out rep that forge gunner.
I don't even know why I bother.
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Garth Mandra
The Southern Legion
League of Infamy
368
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Posted - 2014.04.02 05:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:I want to see your math on the forge gun damage to armor. Because that number is way low.
Since were going off proto, let's look at the AFG.
1500 base damage. 15% from proficiency and ~9% from 2 complex mods, to account for stacking penalties. Now add on the innate 10% bonus damage forges get. So we have:
1500 + (1500*0.1 [innate bonus]) + (1500*0.15 [prof bonus]) + (1500*0.09[damage mods]) = 1500 + 150 + 225 + 135 = 2010 damage per shot.
Now we divide this by the 2.25 second charge time (3 seconds base with the 25% charge reduction from the skill) to get 893 DPS against armor.
You're doing it wrong.
1500 * 1.1 [rail vs armour] * 1.15 [prof bonus against armour] * 1.05 [damage mod #1] * (1 + 0.05 * 0.87) [damage mod #2] = 2079 damage per shot.
924 dps with a 2.25 second charge time if there are no other delays.
I think part of the problem is that tanks now have a lot of base HP so they don't have to choose between resists and reps, buffer and damage.
Reduce base HP, buff extenders and plates a bit (or muck around with fitting costs) and we might get to a better place. |
MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
305
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Posted - 2014.04.02 05:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Well, first of all your numbers are wrong and stacked Armor Reps have the hardest counters of all the hard counters in the game. You want to nerf the already weakest fit? Lol, go for the strongest rather than the weakest. And no, I'm not telling you what the strongest fit is but I can tell you that it wont get instagibbed like this fit.
R.I.P. Pre-1.7 tanks, you will be missed.
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Alena Ventrallis
PAND3M0N1UM
Lokun Listamenn
1098
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Posted - 2014.04.02 06:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
Regardless, OP's math is very flawed, and is misrepresenting the data by a wide margin.
So if a tank fits 3 enhanced reppers with level 5 repair, you get 450 hp/s repair. The AFG shoots 4 shots, one every 2.25 seconds. that's a total of 9 seconds to empty a magazine. Now, in 9 seconds a tank repping at 450hp/s will rep 4050 armor. Add on to the base armor, and a forge gunner must chew through 8050 total health in 9 seconds to kill a repper tank. 4 AFG shots with the math I gave gives 8040 damage over those 9 seconds. So unless the forge gun reload is upward of 10-12 seconds, there's no way his sustained DPS is 388.
OP has done some flawed math, and hopefully CCP takes note of this.
Best PVE idea I've seen.
Fixed link.
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
305
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Posted - 2014.04.02 06:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Garth Mandra wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:I want to see your math on the forge gun damage to armor. Because that number is way low.
Since were going off proto, let's look at the AFG.
1500 base damage. 15% from proficiency and ~9% from 2 complex mods, to account for stacking penalties. Now add on the innate 10% bonus damage forges get. So we have:
1500 + (1500*0.1 [innate bonus]) + (1500*0.15 [prof bonus]) + (1500*0.09[damage mods]) = 1500 + 150 + 225 + 135 = 2010 damage per shot.
Now we divide this by the 2.25 second charge time (3 seconds base with the 25% charge reduction from the skill) to get 893 DPS against armor. You're doing it wrong. 1500 * 1.1 [rail vs armour] * 1.15 [prof bonus against armour] * 1.05 [damage mod #1] * (1 + 0.05 * 0.87) [damage mod #2] = 2079 damage per shot. 924 dps with a 2.25 second charge time if there are no other delays. I think part of the problem is that tanks now have a lot of base HP so they don't have to choose between resists and reps, buffer and damage. Reduce base HP, buff extenders and plates a bit (or muck around with fitting costs) and we might get to a better place.
Now, your math seems to be spot on, but I have to say that tanks don't have a lot of base HP, they have more than in 1.6 but not a lot. If you don't fit your tank with more EHP you will get instakilled by a lot of stuff.
R.I.P. Pre-1.7 tanks, you will be missed.
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medomai grey
WarRavens
League of Infamy
496
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Posted - 2014.04.02 06:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
You guys only noticed vehicle armor reps were unbalanced now?
I've been told that people prefer fake smiles over the honest expressions of their fellow men. : )
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KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
1138
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Posted - 2014.04.02 07:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
The plan for vehicle balancing around 1.4 strata stated they did not like how vehicles were used. Tankers were doing it wrong. So, to punish said tankers they were going to remove the very things that made tanking in Dust a unique challenge.
In 1.7 CCP/Shanghai delivered on that threat. Modules are dumb. I mean Holy Hanna Dumb! Turrets are extremely stupid and simple now. The stated 'usage model for tank drivers' was to come into a battle and turn the tide of a battle. For a minute or two. The they need to pull back and let their modules cool down. Before 1.7 some could sit there and hammer infantry for long periods of time. Some can now no doubt but once the AV gets to a certain level I normally bounce.
Now it is more of a problem for the tankers - if the Red Belles played like they had before 1.7. They however have changed as well. A single Merc should not be able to take out a Tank, nor possibly a Derp Ship. Having one other to help will significantly increase the odds of killing a vehicle. One of my squad mates will normally tell me they are closing on the back of the Red tank. When they are ready I come forward, depending on shield/armor tank, we take down their shields and hit them with ADV/PRO AV grenades and my tank. They die.
Same thing works with I use my Heavy. At least it does when the Forge Gun actually fires. 
If you mess up even one little part you get to start all over from the beginning. Just like tankers do. Pull back, reload, get your armor and shields back, restock the AV grenades and move in again.
Welcome to Dust - post 1.7
And so it goes.
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The-Errorist
613
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Posted - 2014.04.03 12:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:You guys only noticed vehicle armor reps were unbalanced now?
I knew, but hardeners were more OP than the repair rate and effected both armor and shields tanks.
KalOfTheRathi wrote:The plan for vehicle balancing around 1.4 strata stated they did not like how vehicles were used. Tankers were doing it wrong. So, to punish said tankers they were going to remove the very things that made tanking in Dust a unique challenge. In 1.7 CCP/Shanghai delivered on that threat. Modules are dumb. I mean Holy Hanna Dumb! Turrets are extremely stupid and simple now. The stated 'usage model for tank drivers' was to come into a battle and turn the tide of a battle. For a minute or two. The they need to pull back and let their modules cool down. Before 1.7 some could sit there and hammer infantry for long periods of time. Some can now no doubt but once the AV gets to a certain level I normally bounce. Now it is more of a problem for the tankers - if the Red Belles played like they had before 1.7. They however have changed as well. A single Merc should not be able to take out a Tank, nor possibly a Derp Ship. Having one other to help will significantly increase the odds of killing a vehicle. One of my squad mates will normally tell me they are closing on the back of the Red tank. When they are ready I come forward, depending on shield/armor tank, we take down their shields and hit them with ADV/PRO AV grenades and my tank. They die. Same thing works with I use my Heavy. At least it does when the Forge Gun actually fires. If you mess up even one little part you get to start all over from the beginning. Just like tankers do. Pull back, reload, get your armor and shields back, restock the AV grenades and move in again. Welcome to Dust - post 1.7
Please read the OP before posting. |
XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
1248
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 12:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:Something needs to be done about vehicle armor repair modules; they are way too effective and for the amount of PG/CPU they take up. A proto assault forge-gunner with lv5 everything with 2 complex heavy damage mods can deal roughly 388 HP/s (reload time factored in) to armor if all the shots hit. Keep in mind that a shield tank can only recharge shields at 168 HP/s when it's not under fire from stuff that deals at least 102 alpha damage. [Incubus]Adv neutron blaster bsc afterburner cpx heavy armor repairer adv heavy armor repairer cpx PG upgrade Armor HP: 2362 Repair rate: 331.25 HP/s To kill that dropship it would take: 41.6s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 1 forge-gunner. 5.3s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 2 forge-gunners. 2.8s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 3 forge-gunners.
[Madrugar]Adv neutron blaster cpx complex armor hardener - duration:45s cooldown:37.5s cpx heavy armor repairer adv heavy armor repairer Armor HP: 4000 Repair rate: 331.25 HP/s To kill that tank when the the hardener is cooling down: 70.5s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 1 forge-gunners. 9s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 2 forge-gunners. 4.8s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 3 forge-gunners. To kill that tank when it activated its harder it would take: 115.5s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 1 forge-gunners. 16s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 2 forge-gunners. 7.38s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 3 forge-gunners.
[Madrugar]Adv neutron blaster 2 cpx armor repair adv heavy repairers Armor HP: 4000 Repair rate: 512.5 HP/s To kill that tank it would take: 1 forgegunner will never be able kill it.15.18s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 2 forge-gunners. 6.14s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 3 forge-gunners.
Here's my attempt at fixing this problem.
Against dropships with double reps, My Wyrkomi breach FG disagrees with this post
Plasma Cannon Advocate
Heavy event survivor
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The-Errorist
613
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Posted - 2014.04.03 13:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
I've updated post #7
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Against dropships with double reps, My Wyrkomi breach FG disagrees with this post
Considering my post was about assault forge-guns, I don't see how breach FG disagrees with my post.
If one were to use a Wyrkomi Breach FG with 2 complex damage mods with proficiency lv5, the 1st shot would do get rid of all the shields and would deal 1587.34 damage to armor leaving the dropship with 774.66 armor left. The next shot would take 3.375s to charge up and it will do 2644.79 which is more armor HP than than an incubus has. Killing that dropship, that has an afterburner, would take at least 6.75s if both the shots hit. |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1983
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Posted - 2014.04.03 14:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:Something needs to be done about vehicle armor repair modules; they are way too effective and for the amount of PG/CPU they take up. A proto assault forge-gunner with lv5 everything with 2 complex heavy damage mods can deal roughly 388 HP/s (reload time factored in) to armor if all the shots hit. Keep in mind that a shield tank can only recharge shields at 168 HP/s when it's not under fire from stuff that deals at least 102 alpha damage. [Incubus]Adv neutron blaster bsc afterburner cpx heavy armor repairer adv heavy armor repairer cpx PG upgrade Armor HP: 2362 Repair rate: 331.25 HP/s To kill that dropship it would take: 41.6s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 1 forge-gunner. 5.3s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 2 forge-gunners. 2.8s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 3 forge-gunners.
[Madrugar]Adv neutron blaster cpx complex armor hardener - duration:45s cooldown:37.5s cpx heavy armor repairer adv heavy armor repairer Armor HP: 4000 Repair rate: 331.25 HP/s To kill that tank when the the hardener is cooling down: 70.5s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 1 forge-gunners. 9s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 2 forge-gunners. 4.8s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 3 forge-gunners. To kill that tank when it activated its harder it would take: 115.5s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 1 forge-gunners. 16s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 2 forge-gunners. 7.38s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 3 forge-gunners.
[Madrugar]Adv neutron blaster 2 cpx armor repair adv heavy repairers Armor HP: 4000 Repair rate: 512.5 HP/s To kill that tank it would take: 1 forgegunner will never be able kill it.15.18s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 2 forge-gunners. 6.14s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 3 forge-gunners.
Here's my attempt at fixing this problem.
lolwut
Madrugar can't have that turret with those modules. Your math is wrong, therefore everything is wrong.
And why is your math only assuming AV? Why don't you assume an enemy tank around?
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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The-Errorist
613
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Posted - 2014.04.03 14:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:The-Errorist wrote:Something needs to be done about vehicle armor repair modules; they are way too effective and for the amount of PG/CPU they take up. A proto assault forge-gunner with lv5 everything with 2 complex heavy damage mods can deal roughly 388 HP/s (reload time factored in) to armor if all the shots hit. Keep in mind that a shield tank can only recharge shields at 168 HP/s when it's not under fire from stuff that deals at least 102 alpha damage. [Incubus]Adv neutron blaster bsc afterburner cpx heavy armor repairer adv heavy armor repairer cpx PG upgrade Armor HP: 2362 Repair rate: 331.25 HP/s To kill that dropship it would take: 41.6s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 1 forge-gunner. 5.3s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 2 forge-gunners. 2.8s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 3 forge-gunners.
[Madrugar]Adv neutron blaster cpx complex armor hardener - duration:45s cooldown:37.5s cpx heavy armor repairer adv heavy armor repairer Armor HP: 4000 Repair rate: 331.25 HP/s To kill that tank when the the hardener is cooling down: 70.5s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 1 forge-gunners. 9s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 2 forge-gunners. 4.8s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 3 forge-gunners. To kill that tank when it activated its harder it would take: 115.5s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 1 forge-gunners. 16s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 2 forge-gunners. 7.38s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 3 forge-gunners.
[Madrugar]Adv neutron blaster 2 cpx armor repair adv heavy repairers Armor HP: 4000 Repair rate: 512.5 HP/s To kill that tank it would take: 1 forgegunner will never be able kill it.15.18s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 2 forge-gunners. 6.14s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 3 forge-gunners.
Here's my attempt at fixing this problem. lolwut Madrugar can't have that turret with those modules. Your math is wrong, therefore everything is wrong. And why is your math only assuming AV? Why don't you assume an enemy tank around?
Based on http://dust.thang.dk, Protofits.com, and the vehicle fittinng tool on https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1537008 , and my tanking account that has fitting optimation for armor modules and turrets, the math used for being fitting the modules is correct and shows it's possible.
I'm trying to show how much time and effort it would take infantry AV to kill a tank. I might add stats against vehicles later. |
The-Errorist
625
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Posted - 2014.04.05 05:37:00 -
[27] - Quote
After working out the dps calculations myself instead of using dust.thang.dk for it, I noticed that the sustained dps I used was wrong; it's 652 instead the 388 number I used before. Here's a spreadsheet that shows how I calculated the stuff.
I'll update the OP later with more and updated stats. |
The-Errorist
625
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Posted - 2014.04.05 08:07:00 -
[28] - Quote
I've updated the OP. |
Leonid Tybalt
Inner.Hell
438
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Posted - 2014.04.05 15:08:00 -
[29] - Quote
Stacked reppers are only really a viable protection against infantry AV, and you won't last long with only STD level of reppers or an MLT tank, but you need at least a basic tank and enhanced to complex reppers to survive against sustained fire from coordinated infantry AV.
But you'd still be putting all of your eggs in one basket, because all it takes is one damage modded railgun to make your stacked reppers next to useless, since the railgun will out-DPS your repair rate way too much.
Reppers are fine where they are, because even the noobiest of scrub tankers can take repper tanks out with ease.
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The-Errorist
626
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Posted - 2014.04.05 18:17:00 -
[30] - Quote
Leonid Tybalt wrote:Stacked reppers are only really a viable protection against infantry AV, and you won't last long with only STD level of reppers or an MLT tank, but you need at least a basic tank and enhanced to complex reppers to survive against sustained fire from coordinated infantry AV.
But you'd still be putting all of your eggs in one basket, because all it takes is one damage modded railgun to make your stacked reppers next to useless, since the railgun will out-DPS your repair rate way too much.
Reppers are fine where they are, because even the noobiest of scrub tankers can take repper tanks out with ease.
So you evaluate whether something is balanced or not based on how well it goes against something horridly unbalanced; the sniper rifle turret with more DPS than the turret like an assault rifle? |
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Harpyja
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1518
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Posted - 2014.04.05 23:34:00 -
[31] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:I've updated post #7XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Against dropships with double reps, My Wyrkomi breach FG disagrees with this post Considering my post was about assault forge-guns, I don't see how breach FG disagrees with my post. If one were to use a Wyrkomi Breach FG with 2 complex damage mods with proficiency lv5, the 1st shot would do get rid of all the shields and would deal 1587.34 damage to armor leaving the dropship with 774.66 armor left. The next shot would take 3.375s to charge up and it will do 2644.79 which is more armor HP than than an incubus has. Killing that dropship, that has an afterburner, would take at least 6.75s if both the shots hit. Edit: I did the math for tanks and it would take at least 2 forerunners to kill both types of tanks I have above and 6.75s seconds to kill the tank. Basically 1 breach forge-gunners can kill everything but a pair stacked tank in 6.75s and 2 of them kills everything in 6.75s if they both land their shots and survive.
The thing about the breach forge gun is that the initial charge time should not be counted when evaluating TTK. You can hold the charge, and really the timer only starts ticking when the first shot hits the vehicle. After that, it's only 3.375s before the next shot connects. To the vehicle pilot, it's two breach forge gun shots in a time frame of a little over 3 seconds, and that's what counts, not the addition of the initial charge.
Although the forge gunner needs a total time of 6.75s to put out two breach shots, the vehicle is oblivious to the first shot being charged, so the initial charge is basically free for the forger.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
10441
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Posted - 2014.04.16 15:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
Bumpity
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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