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The-Errorist
591
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Posted - 2014.03.28 12:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
On an Incubus, you can have a basic afterburner, an advanced missile turret, and stack the low slots with 1 basic heavy and 2 complex armor repair modules to get 312.5 HP/s repair rate. Keep in mind that a shield tank only repairs at 168 HP/s when not under fire that at least does 102 alpha damage.
A proto assault forge-gunner with lv5 everything with 2 complex heavy damage mods can deal roughly 388 HP/s (reload time factored in) to armor if all the shots hit. The Incubus would be able to rep most of that damage and with it's 2362 armor, it would be able to stay there for quite some time and be able to easily kill the forge-gunner without taking much damage. Two assault forge-gunners would be able to take out the dropship in 5 seconds only if all the shots hit and only if one of the forge-gunners doesn't get killed. If you have 3 of those assault forge-gunners, it would take 2.77s if all of the forge-gunners where able to live that long and not miss a shot.
For an armor tank user, the situation is the similar; one can fit a neutron blaster, a complex armor hardener, 1 complex and basic heavy armor repairer, and get a repair rate of 331.25 HP/s. It has a slightly higher rep rate than the incubus, but it a complex armor hardener which with lv5 engine core calibration and core grid management, the hardener giving 25% damage resistance lasting 45s, which would take 37.5s to cooldown. It would take at least 4.71s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 3 forge-gunners and thats not even taking the hardener into account.
Basically, something needs to be done about vehicle armor repair modules. |
The-Errorist
602
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Posted - 2014.03.30 00:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
I found another incubus fit that's better. Have the same stuff as a above, bit put 2 enhanced heavy armor repairers and a complex PG upgrade and you'll get a 331.25 HP/s repair rate. |
The-Errorist
602
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Posted - 2014.03.30 01:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
I updated the OP with more information, fittings. and made it look neater. |
The-Errorist
602
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Posted - 2014.03.30 04:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
I have taken the time to tweak PG/CPU values of the standard, advanced, and prototype light armor repair modules.
You can see how it would affect fittings on my modified version of Harpyja's Vehicle fitting tool.
I will edit this post when I make changes to it |
The-Errorist
613
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Posted - 2014.04.03 12:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:You guys only noticed vehicle armor reps were unbalanced now?
I knew, but hardeners were more OP than the repair rate and effected both armor and shields tanks.
KalOfTheRathi wrote:The plan for vehicle balancing around 1.4 strata stated they did not like how vehicles were used. Tankers were doing it wrong. So, to punish said tankers they were going to remove the very things that made tanking in Dust a unique challenge. In 1.7 CCP/Shanghai delivered on that threat. Modules are dumb. I mean Holy Hanna Dumb! Turrets are extremely stupid and simple now. The stated 'usage model for tank drivers' was to come into a battle and turn the tide of a battle. For a minute or two. The they need to pull back and let their modules cool down. Before 1.7 some could sit there and hammer infantry for long periods of time. Some can now no doubt but once the AV gets to a certain level I normally bounce. Now it is more of a problem for the tankers - if the Red Belles played like they had before 1.7. They however have changed as well. A single Merc should not be able to take out a Tank, nor possibly a Derp Ship. Having one other to help will significantly increase the odds of killing a vehicle. One of my squad mates will normally tell me they are closing on the back of the Red tank. When they are ready I come forward, depending on shield/armor tank, we take down their shields and hit them with ADV/PRO AV grenades and my tank. They die. Same thing works with I use my Heavy. At least it does when the Forge Gun actually fires.  If you mess up even one little part you get to start all over from the beginning. Just like tankers do. Pull back, reload, get your armor and shields back, restock the AV grenades and move in again. Welcome to Dust - post 1.7
Please read the OP before posting. |
The-Errorist
613
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Posted - 2014.04.03 13:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
I've updated post #7
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Against dropships with double reps, My Wyrkomi breach FG disagrees with this post
Considering my post was about assault forge-guns, I don't see how breach FG disagrees with my post.
If one were to use a Wyrkomi Breach FG with 2 complex damage mods with proficiency lv5, the 1st shot would do get rid of all the shields and would deal 1587.34 damage to armor leaving the dropship with 774.66 armor left. The next shot would take 3.375s to charge up and it will do 2644.79 which is more armor HP than than an incubus has. Killing that dropship, that has an afterburner, would take at least 6.75s if both the shots hit. |
The-Errorist
613
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Posted - 2014.04.03 14:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:The-Errorist wrote:Something needs to be done about vehicle armor repair modules; they are way too effective and for the amount of PG/CPU they take up. A proto assault forge-gunner with lv5 everything with 2 complex heavy damage mods can deal roughly 388 HP/s (reload time factored in) to armor if all the shots hit. Keep in mind that a shield tank can only recharge shields at 168 HP/s when it's not under fire from stuff that deals at least 102 alpha damage. [Incubus]Adv neutron blaster bsc afterburner cpx heavy armor repairer adv heavy armor repairer cpx PG upgrade Armor HP: 2362 Repair rate: 331.25 HP/s To kill that dropship it would take: 41.6s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 1 forge-gunner. 5.3s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 2 forge-gunners. 2.8s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 3 forge-gunners.
[Madrugar]Adv neutron blaster cpx complex armor hardener - duration:45s cooldown:37.5s cpx heavy armor repairer adv heavy armor repairer Armor HP: 4000 Repair rate: 331.25 HP/s To kill that tank when the the hardener is cooling down: 70.5s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 1 forge-gunners. 9s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 2 forge-gunners. 4.8s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 3 forge-gunners. To kill that tank when it activated its harder it would take: 115.5s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 1 forge-gunners. 16s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 2 forge-gunners. 7.38s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 3 forge-gunners.
[Madrugar]Adv neutron blaster 2 cpx armor repair adv heavy repairers Armor HP: 4000 Repair rate: 512.5 HP/s To kill that tank it would take: 1 forgegunner will never be able kill it.15.18s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 2 forge-gunners. 6.14s of uninterrupted proto assault forge-gun fire from 3 forge-gunners.
Here's my attempt at fixing this problem. lolwut Madrugar can't have that turret with those modules. Your math is wrong, therefore everything is wrong. And why is your math only assuming AV? Why don't you assume an enemy tank around?
Based on http://dust.thang.dk, Protofits.com, and the vehicle fittinng tool on https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1537008 , and my tanking account that has fitting optimation for armor modules and turrets, the math used for being fitting the modules is correct and shows it's possible.
I'm trying to show how much time and effort it would take infantry AV to kill a tank. I might add stats against vehicles later. |
The-Errorist
625
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Posted - 2014.04.05 05:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
After working out the dps calculations myself instead of using dust.thang.dk for it, I noticed that the sustained dps I used was wrong; it's 652 instead the 388 number I used before. Here's a spreadsheet that shows how I calculated the stuff.
I'll update the OP later with more and updated stats. |
The-Errorist
625
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Posted - 2014.04.05 08:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
I've updated the OP. |
The-Errorist
626
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Posted - 2014.04.05 18:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Leonid Tybalt wrote:Stacked reppers are only really a viable protection against infantry AV, and you won't last long with only STD level of reppers or an MLT tank, but you need at least a basic tank and enhanced to complex reppers to survive against sustained fire from coordinated infantry AV.
But you'd still be putting all of your eggs in one basket, because all it takes is one damage modded railgun to make your stacked reppers next to useless, since the railgun will out-DPS your repair rate way too much.
Reppers are fine where they are, because even the noobiest of scrub tankers can take repper tanks out with ease.
So you evaluate whether something is balanced or not based on how well it goes against something horridly unbalanced; the sniper rifle turret with more DPS than the turret like an assault rifle? |
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