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CCP why in the world would you nerf Hardeners???

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darkiller240 WarRavens League of Infamy 660	Posted - 2014.03.28 12:26:00 - [1] - Quote You were spot to nerf TANKS NOT every godam vehicle in the game Dont listen to butthurtt idiots on the forums and make a sound conclusion "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Dirt Nap Squad. 692	Posted - 2014.03.28 13:54:00 - [2] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: You were spot to nerf TANKS NOT every godam vehicle in the game Dont listen to butthurtt idiots on the forums and make a sound conclusion Right there with you, it's clear my essays were truly in vain, and that those who could write "HARDENERS ARE TOO POWERFUL" as the only subject matter have won. It's incredible sometimes their logic. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
CRYPT3C W0LF Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 504	Posted - 2014.03.28 14:01:00 - [3] - Quote Learn to use Plates. They have a place now... I Make Youtube Videos!:)
Leonid Tybalt Inner.Hell 373	Posted - 2014.03.28 14:10:00 - [4] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: You were spot to nerf TANKS NOT every godam vehicle in the game Dont listen to butthurtt idiots on the forums and make a sound conclusion Derpships have been just as abused as tanks. Just try being a lone infantryman in the open against a dropship pilot bent on killing you with proto small missile launchers. If you try to run he'll kill you. Find a hiding place, he'll outrun you. Try to use swarms against him: he'll harden up and basically become invincible against them. Forge and he'll do the same and almost instantly climb out of range of your forge gun. Hardeners were the problem, and they were abused to no end. (I doubt anyone saw much "abuse" of plates and extenders) The nerf was justified. /experienced tanker who definitely abused the **** out of hardeners
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1890	Posted - 2014.03.28 14:11:00 - [5] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: darkiller240 wrote: You were spot to nerf TANKS NOT every godam vehicle in the game Dont listen to butthurtt idiots on the forums and make a sound conclusion Right there with you, it's clear my essays were truly in vain, and that those who could write "HARDENERS ARE TOO POWERFUL" as the only subject matter have won. It's incredible sometimes their logic. What really gets me is that Judge spoon-fed all of us a pre-digested visual analysis with supporting video footage and pretty graphs of damage models! What else can be done? Smh. The sad reality is that at this point it's about rhetoric, not empiricism, analysis or logic. If the peeps who understand how the mechanics in this game work and who care about this game want to have a postive effect on this game the the answer is: better rhetoric. Don't worry about logic and data-driven thinking, just focus on making the other guys look stupid/silly and do it with a touch of humor and do it non-stop. It's a propaganda war because CCP appears susceptible to propaganda. Get your Howard Stern/FOX gameface on and smear the opposition. P.S. My sincerest hope is that Wolfie made the fast, sloppy haphazard changes he did because it doesn't really matter any more: this sad attenpt at balancing was intended to keep us not quitting until the fanfest build gets here. I support SP rollover.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12688	Posted - 2014.03.28 14:13:00 - [6] - Quote CRYPT3C W0LF wrote: Learn to use Plates. They have a place now... Yup, they make you an easier target for rails. CCP doesn't think their changes through "It seems you've mistaken me for someone who cares"
darkiller240 WarRavens League of Infamy 663	Posted - 2014.03.28 14:13:00 - [7] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: darkiller240 wrote: You were spot to nerf TANKS NOT every godam vehicle in the game Dont listen to butthurtt idiots on the forums and make a sound conclusion Derpships have been just as abused as tanks. Just try being a lone infantryman in the open against a dropship pilot bent on killing you with proto small missile launchers. If you try to run he'll kill you. Find a hiding place, he'll outrun you. Try to use swarms against him: he'll harden up and basically become invincible against them. Forge and he'll do the same and almost instantly climb out of range of your forge gun. Hardeners were the problem, and they were abused to no end. (I doubt anyone saw much "abuse" of plates and extenders) The nerf was justified. /experienced tanker who definitely abused the ** out of hardeners Swarms needed an effeciancy buff but now FG are OP agasit ADS again also if your alone and i got my 15 mill SP invested, half a mill flying ship, i should kill you "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results**." - Albert Einstein
darkiller240 WarRavens League of Infamy 663	Posted - 2014.03.28 14:19:00 - [8] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: CRYPT3C W0LF wrote: Learn to use Plates. They have a place now... Yup, they make you an easier target for rails. CCP doesn't think their changes through You took the words out of my head "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
Sum1ne Else WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 1067	Posted - 2014.03.28 14:20:00 - [9] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: What really gets me is that Judge spoon-fed all of us a pre-digested visual analysis with supporting video footage and pretty graphs of damage models! What you are forgetting is that Judge is a vehicle user himself- actually strictly vehicles how can it be bias? The guy should get a job at CCP, his analysis is second to none. The 'nerf' is great, no redline rail snipers, its a little easier for AV but with the current 1.8 deployment of loosing an AV grenade and taking away prof to forge its becoming more balanced. That said, a forge struggles take down a Python, and swarms are just useless because of the range. Now all they need to do is put sniper rifles down to 300m- that will get them out of the redline! Level 1 Forum Warrior! Its a leopleuradon Charlie a magical leoplueradon, its gunna guide our way to candy mountain!
darkiller240 WarRavens League of Infamy 663	Posted - 2014.03.28 14:21:00 - [10] - Quote Sum1ne Else wrote: darkiller240 wrote: What really gets me is that Judge spoon-fed all of us a pre-digested visual analysis with supporting video footage and pretty graphs of damage models! What you are forgetting is that Judge is a vehicle user himself- actually stricktly vehicles how can it be bias? The guy should get a job at CCP, his analysis is second to none. The 'nerf' is great, no redline rail snipers, its a little easier for AV but with the current 1.8 deployment of loosing an AV grenade and taking away prof to forge its becoming more balanced. That said, a forge struggles take down a Python, and swarms are just useless because of the range. Now all they need to do is put sniper rifles down to 300m- that will get them out of the redline! ummmm i dident say that :s EDIT: Also Judge i think has an alt heavy, but not sure so dont quote me on it "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12689	Posted - 2014.03.28 14:22:00 - [11] - Quote Sum1ne Else wrote: darkiller240 wrote: What really gets me is that Judge spoon-fed all of us a pre-digested visual analysis with supporting video footage and pretty graphs of damage models! What you are forgetting is that Judge is a vehicle user himself- actually strictly vehicles how can it be bias? The guy should get a job at CCP, his analysis is second to none. The 'nerf' is great, no redline rail snipers, its a little easier for AV but with the current 1.8 deployment of loosing an AV grenade and taking away prof to forge its becoming more balanced. That said, a forge struggles take down a Python, and swarms are just useless because of the range. Now all they need to do is put sniper rifles down to 300m- that will get them out of the redline! The only way the redine will stop being a problem is when they remove it. The redline is nothing short of a failed mechanic that makes the game impossible to balance and only ensures that we NEVER see larger maps or higher player counts. "It seems you've mistaken me for someone who cares"
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1157	Posted - 2014.03.28 14:29:00 - [12] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: Sum1ne Else wrote: darkiller240 wrote: What really gets me is that Judge spoon-fed all of us a pre-digested visual analysis with supporting video footage and pretty graphs of damage models! What you are forgetting is that Judge is a vehicle user himself- actually stricktly vehicles how can it be bias? The guy should get a job at CCP, his analysis is second to none. The 'nerf' is great, no redline rail snipers, its a little easier for AV but with the current 1.8 deployment of loosing an AV grenade and taking away prof to forge its becoming more balanced. That said, a forge struggles take down a Python, and swarms are just useless because of the range. Now all they need to do is put sniper rifles down to 300m- that will get them out of the redline! ummmm i dident say that :s EDIT: Also Judge i think has an alt heavy, but not sure so dont quote me on it He does have a heavily specced AV alt. Me in my ADS: 1,2
darkiller240 WarRavens League of Infamy 664	Posted - 2014.03.28 14:33:00 - [13] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: darkiller240 wrote: Sum1ne Else wrote: darkiller240 wrote: What really gets me is that Judge spoon-fed all of us a pre-digested visual analysis with supporting video footage and pretty graphs of damage models! What you are forgetting is that Judge is a vehicle user himself- actually stricktly vehicles how can it be bias? The guy should get a job at CCP, his analysis is second to none. The 'nerf' is great, no redline rail snipers, its a little easier for AV but with the current 1.8 deployment of loosing an AV grenade and taking away prof to forge its becoming more balanced. That said, a forge struggles take down a Python, and swarms are just useless because of the range. Now all they need to do is put sniper rifles down to 300m- that will get them out of the redline! ummmm i dident say that :s EDIT: Also Judge i think has an alt heavy, but not sure so dont quote me on it He does have a heavily specced AV alt. thank you for confirming :) "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
Sum1ne Else WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 1067	Posted - 2014.03.28 14:35:00 - [14] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: ummmm i dident say that :s EDIT: Also Judge i think has an alt heavy, but not sure so dont quote me on it Sorry Dark, my bad- was writing on my phone and quoted you quoting Leonid Tybalt- Leonid Tybalt actually wrote that Level 1 Forum Warrior! Its a leopleuradon Charlie a magical leoplueradon, its gunna guide our way to candy mountain!
Leonid Tybalt Inner.Hell 376	Posted - 2014.03.28 14:44:00 - [15] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: darkiller240 wrote: You were spot to nerf TANKS NOT every godam vehicle in the game Dont listen to butthurtt idiots on the forums and make a sound conclusion Derpships have been just as abused as tanks. Just try being a lone infantryman in the open against a dropship pilot bent on killing you with proto small missile launchers. If you try to run he'll kill you. Find a hiding place, he'll outrun you. Try to use swarms against him: he'll harden up and basically become invincible against them. Forge and he'll do the same and almost instantly climb out of range of your forge gun. Hardeners were the problem, and they were abused to no end. (I doubt anyone saw much "abuse" of plates and extenders) The nerf was justified. /experienced tanker who definitely abused the **** out of hardeners Swarms needed an effeciancy buff but now FG are OP agasit ADS again also if your alone and i got my 15 mill SP invested, half a mill flying ship, i should kill you I got 15 mil sp invested in vehicles too. So by your logic, my tank should kill you... -.-
Leonid Tybalt Inner.Hell 376	Posted - 2014.03.28 14:46:00 - [16] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Sum1ne Else wrote: darkiller240 wrote: What really gets me is that Judge spoon-fed all of us a pre-digested visual analysis with supporting video footage and pretty graphs of damage models! What you are forgetting is that Judge is a vehicle user himself- actually strictly vehicles how can it be bias? The guy should get a job at CCP, his analysis is second to none. The 'nerf' is great, no redline rail snipers, its a little easier for AV but with the current 1.8 deployment of loosing an AV grenade and taking away prof to forge its becoming more balanced. That said, a forge struggles take down a Python, and swarms are just useless because of the range. Now all they need to do is put sniper rifles down to 300m- that will get them out of the redline! The only way the redine will stop being a problem is when they remove it. The redline is nothing short of a failed mechanic that makes the game impossible to balance and only ensures that we NEVER see larger maps or higher player counts. There's no arguing with the truth. I've said it plenty of times too. The redline is obsolete and should go.
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y RISE of LEGION 44	Posted - 2014.03.28 14:47:00 - [17] - Quote I think the shield hardeners needed a nerf personally, tired of them hitting it and then they seemingly become invincible D: What they really need to do, buff tank attack and deffence, nerf the speed. No matter how you look at it, it's a TANK. It's suppose to deal out a lot of damage and take a lot, what it's not supposed to do is zoom away when it gets scared like a rabbit o:< G.L.O.R.Y solider, Master of the Heavy
Xaviah Reaper Nyain San Dirt Nap Squad. 395	Posted - 2014.03.28 14:51:00 - [18] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: You were spot to nerf TANKS NOT every godam vehicle in the game Dont listen to butthurtt idiots on the forums and make a sound conclusion https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1990295#post1990295 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=151664 made these last night :) Just read the damn thread
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2521	Posted - 2014.03.28 14:53:00 - [19] - Quote Should have just made ridiculous stacking penalties and maybe dropped them 5-15% instead of 20. Can still put one on your DS but the days of perma-hardened HAVs would have been over. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
Leonid Tybalt Inner.Hell 379	Posted - 2014.03.28 17:02:00 - [20] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: darkiller240 wrote: You were spot to nerf TANKS NOT every godam vehicle in the game Dont listen to butthurtt idiots on the forums and make a sound conclusion Derpships have been just as abused as tanks. Just try being a lone infantryman in the open against a dropship pilot bent on killing you with proto small missile launchers. If you try to run he'll kill you. Find a hiding place, he'll outrun you. Try to use swarms against him: he'll harden up and basically become invincible against them. Forge and he'll do the same and almost instantly climb out of range of your forge gun. Hardeners were the problem, and they were abused to no end. (I doubt anyone saw much "abuse" of plates and extenders) The nerf was justified. /experienced tanker who definitely abused the **** out of hardeners Swarms needed an effeciancy buff but now FG are OP agasit ADS again also if your alone and i got my 15 mill SP invested, half a mill flying ship, i should kill you Also, what the guy you're chasing in that 15 mil sp Derpship ALSO spent 15 million sp into swarmlaunchers and support skills intended to make the swarm launcher more effective? Why should you "auto-win" against him just because you happen to be in a dropship? Why should your 15 mil skillpoints be worth more than someone elses?

Adell Shinzumakami 60 Revolutions 31	Posted - 2014.03.28 17:24:00 - [21] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: You were spot to nerf TANKS NOT every godam vehicle in the game Dont listen to butthurtt idiots on the forums and make a sound conclusion Wait..... People wanted something nerfed because they were butthurt? But you are butthurt about nerf?...... I GÖÑ RoadKill Closed BETA vet
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12699	Posted - 2014.03.28 17:29:00 - [22] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: darkiller240 wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: darkiller240 wrote: You were spot to nerf TANKS NOT every godam vehicle in the game Dont listen to butthurtt idiots on the forums and make a sound conclusion Derpships have been just as abused as tanks. Just try being a lone infantryman in the open against a dropship pilot bent on killing you with proto small missile launchers. If you try to run he'll kill you. Find a hiding place, he'll outrun you. Try to use swarms against him: he'll harden up and basically become invincible against them. Forge and he'll do the same and almost instantly climb out of range of your forge gun. Hardeners were the problem, and they were abused to no end. (I doubt anyone saw much "abuse" of plates and extenders) The nerf was justified. /experienced tanker who definitely abused the **** out of hardeners Swarms needed an effeciancy buff but now FG are OP agasit ADS again also if your alone and i got my 15 mill SP invested, half a mill flying ship, i should kill you Also, what the guy you're chasing in that 15 mil sp Derpship ALSO spent 15 million sp into swarmlaunchers and support skills intended to make the swarm launcher more effective? Why should you "auto-win" against him just because you happen to be in a dropship? Why should your 15 mil skillpoints be worth more than someone elses? I was unaware there was a cap to how many swarm launchers your team can call in. Also, flying a dropship effectively takes just the tiniest bit more skill than effectively opperating a swarm launcher.... Just sayin' My DUST 514 Music Videos Solo Incubus pilot, superb expert of wallet depletion
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1819	Posted - 2014.03.28 17:38:00 - [23] - Quote I think some change was needed as there was obviously a problem. I probably would have gone with a reduction to hardener duration or increase to cooldown, as they would affect the HAVs more than the LAVs and Dropships but still provide a general nerf to vehicles. I am a bit concerned since this puts hardeners to the same percentages pre 1.7 which also had their problems. However AV has been nerfed since then, so this may work out. Let's just calm down and see how it plays out first. Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Leonid Tybalt Inner.Hell 384	Posted - 2014.03.28 18:31:00 - [24] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: darkiller240 wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: darkiller240 wrote: You were spot to nerf TANKS NOT every godam vehicle in the game Dont listen to butthurtt idiots on the forums and make a sound conclusion Derpships have been just as abused as tanks. Just try being a lone infantryman in the open against a dropship pilot bent on killing you with proto small missile launchers. If you try to run he'll kill you. Find a hiding place, he'll outrun you. Try to use swarms against him: he'll harden up and basically become invincible against them. Forge and he'll do the same and almost instantly climb out of range of your forge gun. Hardeners were the problem, and they were abused to no end. (I doubt anyone saw much "abuse" of plates and extenders) The nerf was justified. /experienced tanker who definitely abused the **** out of hardeners Swarms needed an effeciancy buff but now FG are OP agasit ADS again also if your alone and i got my 15 mill SP invested, half a mill flying ship, i should kill you Also, what the guy you're chasing in that 15 mil sp Derpship ALSO spent 15 million sp into swarmlaunchers and support skills intended to make the swarm launcher more effective? Why should you "auto-win" against him just because you happen to be in a dropship? Why should your 15 mil skillpoints be worth more than someone elses? I was unaware there was a cap to how many swarm launchers your team can call in. Also, flying a dropship effectively takes just the tiniest bit more skill than effectively opperating a swarm launcher.... Just sayin' Your "sayin" is then redundant, because it doesn't refute my argument at all. Prove to me why the skillpoints of person x are supposed to be worth more than the skillpoints of person y. 'til you can present a coherent argument as to why, I suggest all of you drop the "well I spent x skillpoints into y, so I should be invincible and be able to kill everybody else"-debacle.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12701	Posted - 2014.03.28 18:32:00 - [25] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: Your "sayin" is then redundant, because it doesn't refute my argument at all. Prove to me why the skillpoints of person x are supposed to be worth more than the skillpoints of person y. 'til you can present a coherent argument as to why, I suggest all of you drop the "well I spent x skillpoints into y, so I should be invincible and be able to kill everybody else"-debacle. Just as you danced around my point. Show me how a swarm launcher is harder to operate than an assault dropship I also didn't say that one was worth more than the other, simply that different aspects of the game are ::gasp:: different. My DUST 514 Music Videos Solo Incubus pilot, superb expert of wallet depletion
Kaughst Nyain San Dirt Nap Squad. 374	Posted - 2014.03.28 18:44:00 - [26] - Quote CRYPT3C W0LF wrote: Learn to use Plates. They have a place now... The new hot thing has been to use triple stacked heavy reppers....I guess that is next thing to go. "He said he has a alt in STB." "Everyone has a alt in STB."
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 2041	Posted - 2014.03.28 18:49:00 - [27] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: CRYPT3C W0LF wrote: Learn to use Plates. They have a place now... Yup, they make you an easier target for rails. CCP doesn't think their changes through So, what? You can't be strong against EVERYTHING. If you're weak against rails, but strong against blasters, that's balance. Missiles are strong against armor, too, but have LONG reload times, take plenty of SP to get into, and aren't that good if you can't kill something in your first go. Hardeners on dropships were bs against current AV and no one used hardeners on LAVs. I'd say the nerf to hardeners were called for. Maybe another one for damage mods so that dropships still have a chance against rails, too. Or rail RoF.
Takron Nistrom Tinfoil Hatz 282	Posted - 2014.03.28 18:54:00 - [28] - Quote Hardeners were OP, stop deluding yourselves. Everyone and their mothers stacked them and at 40%, you should all be ashamed. I'm glad they did nerf them, because until vehicles require more than 1 suit to be a killing machine. They should be killable by 1 person, irregardless of price. Its all about boots on the ground and needing more than 1 person, to kill 1 person, is way OP and anyone arguing otherwise; just wants an EasyMode cuz they suck. GÇ£Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)GÇ¥ GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 2396	Posted - 2014.03.28 18:56:00 - [29] - Quote Dropships were overpowered against everything expect maybe redline rails (their only counter). Hardeners needed the nerf, on all vehicles. ADS are almost god mode in the hands of a decent pilot with rails being nerfed. If you are struggling with your ADS, then you need to learn to fly better.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12702	Posted - 2014.03.28 19:02:00 - [30] - Quote Takron Nistrom wrote: Hardeners were OP, stop deluding yourselves. Everyone and their mothers stacked them and at 40%, you should all be ashamed. I'm glad they did nerf them, because until vehicles require more than 1 suit to be a killing machine. They should be killable by 1 person, irregardless of price. Its all about boots on the ground and needing more than 1 person, to kill 1 person, is way OP and anyone arguing otherwise; just wants an EasyMode cuz they suck. Then please remove the vehicle cap My DUST 514 Music Videos Solo Incubus pilot, superb expert of wallet depletion

Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2784	Posted - 2014.03.28 19:03:00 - [31] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Your "sayin" is then redundant, because it doesn't refute my argument at all. Prove to me why the skillpoints of person x are supposed to be worth more than the skillpoints of person y. 'til you can present a coherent argument as to why, I suggest all of you drop the "well I spent x skillpoints into y, so I should be invincible and be able to kill everybody else"-debacle. Just as you danced around my point. Show me how a swarm launcher is harder to operate than an assault dropship I also didn't say that one was worth more than the other, simply that different aspects of the game are ::gasp:: different. Lower movement speed limiting reaction ability, gimped range, actually fundamentally broken in its designated role as Judge was so kind to create a video showing, and drastically more vulnerable So when you take all these things into account then yeah, using a swarm launcher is an exercise in madness and much harder to operate with any sort of efficiency, after all we cant pop a hardener or after burner and turn tail when things go badly for us I'll start my own war, with hookers, and blackjack! In fact forget the war and the blackjack.
Kaminoikari DROID EXILES General Tso's Alliance 51	Posted - 2014.03.28 19:39:00 - [32] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Your "sayin" is then redundant, because it doesn't refute my argument at all. Prove to me why the skillpoints of person x are supposed to be worth more than the skillpoints of person y. 'til you can present a coherent argument as to why, I suggest all of you drop the "well I spent x skillpoints into y, so I should be invincible and be able to kill everybody else"-debacle. Just as you danced around my point. Show me how a swarm launcher is harder to operate than an assault dropship I also didn't say that one was worth more than the other, simply that different aspects of the game are ::gasp:: different. Lower movement speed limiting reaction ability, gimped range, actually fundamentally broken in its designated role as Judge was so kind to create a video showing, and drastically more vulnerable So when you take all these things into account then yeah, using a swarm launcher is an exercise in madness and much harder to operate with any sort of efficiency, after all we cant pop a hardener or after burner and turn tail when things go badly for us >Lower movement speed Not by much. You're using a light AV weapon. Why you do you think it's in the light weapon category? Swarms are meant to be a team-use AV. A single swarmer should, yes, be able to take out pretty much any LAV but against an air vehicle (mind you, the ONLY air vehicle in the game) it should not. Not by his or herself anyway. Not only is the name of the weapon a swarm launcher, but that is also indicative that a swarm (2 or more) of people should be used for the weapon to be effective against medium and heavy vehicles. >Gimped range That has nothing to do with it requiring more skill. Point is moot. >Broken in its role and you are more vulnerable Refer to my first point. light is not medium or heavy. Of course you are going to be more vulnerable. It should be effective at taking out light vehicles (Jets, when (if) they ever get introduced) and only against a medium or heavy vehicle if you have a swarm of swarmers. >Using a swarm launcher is an exercise in madness and much harder to operate with any sort of efficiency, after all we cant pop a hardener or after burner and turn tail when things go badly for us No. It is not much harder to "operate". You aim, hold the fire button, lock on, let go, rinse and repeat. You are an infantry unit. Not a LAV, not a dropship and certainly not a tank. If you want to become a hardened rock, then get into a vehicle or just go heavy and stay out of the line of fire of the vehicles. Your afterburner is the ability to run. The afterburner on a dropship is the equivalent of stacking Catalyzers. It gives the ship a (limited time) boost of speed to get out of sticky situations which include the following: 1) Any number of forge guns ranging from 1 and beyond which are lethal to a dropship even with a hardener on. 2) A large group of swarmers doing what it is meant for: swarming. 3) Rail tanks of any and all kinds. 4) Redline rail tanks; nerfing their range from 600m to 300m just makes it so they cut off half of the map instead of the entire map. This was actually effective (although small rails didn't need the nerf because it's already hard as **** to hit with them when operating the vehicle as well). 5) Blaster tanks of any number and kind; They have a large angle of operations, almost as much as missile tanks which brings me to the next one. 6) Missile tanks of any kind; their angle of operations is the largest of all, but I'm pretty sure it's because missile tanks are made to be AA and AV specifically. 7) An enemy dropship trying to Kamikaze you (note: This means a MLT/STD dropship, costing no more than 100k ISK crashing and destroying a 500k ISK dropship). 8) Enemies calling in Bolas' in order to kill your dropship. 9) 1 or more dropships attacking you. That's 9 reasons why the afterburner is necessary. Also another reason why hardeners should be in two separate classes. One for ground and one for air vehicles. With only 25% reduction to armor damage a damage modded rail tank and OHK my ADS with the hardener active. Dropships should have their own hardener modules which still give that 40% reduction to armor damage. That would allow ADS' to function as an air support unit by having increased survivability across all fronts while still having the ground vehicles (tanks) keeping their 25% reduction. They already have more armor/shields than a dropship (because they are a heavy unit). Which means their hardeners need to be less... Hard. This also would lead to LAVs needing their own hardeners in order to compete with the tanks and dropships absolutely #REKT'ing them.


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