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Lucifalic
Nos Nothi
384
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Posted - 2014.03.27 15:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
Been scout for a long time. Went through nerf after nerf to my frame but stuck it out. Finally we get the suit to where it should be and what do we get? Assaults and slayer logis jumping ship and brick tanking a scout... With a cloak.
This sucks. So what can we do about it. My idea is t drop th ability to tank a scout. Let's face it, lore wise (and sense wise) it's a light frame not designed for heavy armor. Therefore.... Don't allow it on the suit. Make it so scouts can only be fit with 1 plate total OR only ferroscale plates. No one will stack a bunch of ferro plates either as they are resource hogs.
The exception here would be amar scout which being an armor tanking race should be allowed to fit with as many plates as they want. This gives amsr a unique scout that can be a light assault or fit to e more scoutly.
Shields can be fit but any shield module past the first would give a profile penalty (10% basic, 15% advanced, 20% proto) except for the caldari who could fit maybe 2 without penalty or however many that would be balanced. Amar should never use shields
This would end tanked scouts, give amar scout a unique versatile role, and drive slayer logis and assaults from the suit. Give them a suit refund if they submit a ticket or something.
Most scouts didn't want a cloak, but it's easily balanced. Put a delay between decloaking and shooting. Slight sound within say 10 m or something, flux nades should drop the cloak field. It's otherwise fine and 6-700 ehp scouts won't be decloak blapping people. Instead it will be more of a movement aid and escape tool more then an attack tool.
I'm a dedicated gal and mini scout. Sg, smg, cr, nk, remotes.
Here since Closed beta. Scout for life.
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Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
5300
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Posted - 2014.03.27 15:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
There are so many holes in your logic I don't know where to start.
Sinboto - The True Blood Minja
Forum Warrior level 5
STB-Infantry (Demolition)
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Zepod
Living Like Larry Schwag
1
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Posted - 2014.03.27 15:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
How about we increase the CPU/PG requirements of modules that yield HP, and lower the CPU/PG requirements of EWAR and Biotic modules?
That way every suit has to make a sacrifice if they want to have a massive eHP pool, while also encouraging people to do something other than "brick tank".
"Stand behind me children, and I let my Forge guide you through the darkness".
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Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
5300
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Posted - 2014.03.27 15:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Zepod wrote:How about we increase the CPU/PG requirements of modules that yield HP, and lower the CPU/PG requirements of EWAR and Biotic modules?
That way every suit has to make a sacrifice if they want to have a massive eHP pool, while also encouraging people to do something other than "brick tank". problem: shields are already pretty high, to the point that I can have problems fitting my scout, I'd rather not be more gimped than I am now thanks.
Sinboto - The True Blood Minja
Forum Warrior level 5
STB-Infantry (Demolition)
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
1921
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Posted - 2014.03.27 15:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Adapt or die.
Drop it like its hat.
I´m a fat scout. Do you even lift bro?
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Aisha Ctarl
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4212
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Posted - 2014.03.27 15:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
No.
I could list the ways how we Amarr are better than you, but your lesser mind wouldn't comprehend it.
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Zepod
Living Like Larry Schwag
2
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Posted - 2014.03.27 16:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sinboto Simmons wrote: problem: shields are already pretty high, to the point that I can have problems fitting my scout, I'd rather not be more gimped than I am now thanks.
Then perhaps we could simply adjust the Base HP?
I assume your using a Minmatar Scout perhaps? I don't have too much trouble fitting shields on my Caldari Scout unless I'm using a cloak.
"Stand behind me children, and I let my Forge guide you through the darkness".
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Yan Darn
Science For Death
406
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Posted - 2014.03.27 16:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
I appreciate the sentiment OP, but maybe the best way to get the slayers offa scouts is to buff assaults.
Whatever the case - more carrot, less stick.
The Ghost of Bravo
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DJINN Loki
135
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Posted - 2014.03.27 16:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lucifalic wrote:Been scout for a long time. Went through nerf after nerf to my frame but stuck it out. Finally we get the suit to where it should be and what do we get? Assaults and slayer logis jumping ship and brick tanking a scout... With a cloak.
This sucks. So what can we do about it. My idea is t drop th ability to tank a scout. Let's face it, lore wise (and sense wise) it's a light frame not designed for heavy armor. Therefore.... Don't allow it on the suit. Make it so scouts can only be fit with 1 plate total OR only ferroscale plates. No one will stack a bunch of ferro plates either as they are resource hogs.
The exception here would be amar scout which being an armor tanking race should be allowed to fit with as many plates as they want. This gives amsr a unique scout that can be a light assault or fit to e more scoutly.
Shields can be fit but any shield module past the first would give a profile penalty (10% basic, 15% advanced, 20% proto) except for the caldari who could fit maybe 2 without penalty or however many that would be balanced. Amar should never use shields
This would end tanked scouts, give amar scout a unique versatile role, and drive slayer logis and assaults from the suit. Give them a suit refund if they submit a ticket or something.
Most scouts didn't want a cloak, but it's easily balanced. Put a delay between decloaking and shooting. Slight sound within say 10 m or something, flux nades should drop the cloak field. It's otherwise fine and 6-700 ehp scouts won't be decloak blapping people. Instead it will be more of a movement aid and escape tool more then an attack tool.
I'm a dedicated gal and mini scout. Sg, smg, cr, nk, remotes.
i get where you are coming from and i somewhat agree. I'm not really digging the whole shield and armor tanking scouts. i think penalties for tanking a scout should exist, but it should be a bigger penalty to speed for stacking armor. and possibly a longer delay for shields, but its all depending on race. i don't know man, i think its crazy that a logi suit is a better assault suit or now, a scout suit is a better assault suit. CCP really needs to impose penalties to avoid people using suits beyond what they are originally intended for. just my opinion.
word
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Zepod
Living Like Larry Schwag
2
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Posted - 2014.03.27 16:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Adapt or die. I'd be careful with that. Your beginning to sound like the players who abused the Logistics class, and the people who drive HAVs.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but being underpowered in the past doesn't constitute an imbalance. When a role can be abused for something that it wasn't intended to be used for, it needs adjustment.
Saying otherwise makes you no better than the "Slayer Logis", Redline Snipers, Vehicle Pilots, Pre-Nerf AV users, and Flaylock Pistol users.
"Stand behind me children, and I let my Forge guide you through the darkness".
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Zahle Undt
Bullet Cluster
1115
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Posted - 2014.03.27 16:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sorry OP I think your idea is pretty bad, I'd much rather A) make assaults more viable and/or B) put the cloak on a shelf until there is a viable counter equipment. I do agree, though, that I liked playing scout better before 1.8 landed on us
Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
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Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
5306
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Posted - 2014.03.27 16:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
Zepod wrote:Sinboto Simmons wrote: problem: shields are already pretty high, to the point that I can have problems fitting my scout, I'd rather not be more gimped than I am now thanks.
Then perhaps we could simply adjust the Base HP? I assume your using a Minmatar Scout perhaps? I don't have too much trouble fitting shields on my Caldari Scout unless I'm using a cloak. I am, and there lies my problem, since I don't brick tank any fitting or HP changes to shields effect me greatly, I should be a low EHP high damage suit with damage mods in my lows, but with the DM in the high (due to lack of mods I'd think) my playstyle is only half of what it could be.
Sinboto - The True Blood Minja
Forum Warrior level 5
STB-Infantry (Demolition)
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
1923
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Posted - 2014.03.27 16:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Dont think you can play your scout like you have always been. Think more about how you can adapt your fitting and playstyle to be able to counter a heavily tanked scout.
Do not go and tell others what they cannot do just because your tactics fail.
Drop it like its hat.
I´m a fat scout. Do you even lift bro?
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Zepod
Living Like Larry Schwag
2
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Posted - 2014.03.27 16:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sinboto Simmons wrote: I am, and there lies my problem, since I don't brick tank any fitting or HP changes to shields effect me greatly, I should be a low EHP high damage suit with damage mods in my lows, but with the DM in the high (due to lack of mods I'd think) my playstyle is only half of what it could be.
And their lies the problem, lack of content.
If it were up to me, I'd re-work the whole slot layouts to where their is 1 type of slot for HP Modules, another for Biotics, and a 3rd slot for EWAR and Damage Modifiers. Unfortunately this is far too drastic and CCP would never implement it.
I guess we'll have to wait until Fanfest for additional High Slot modules. Till then you could always use Myrofibril Stimulants and a Precision Enhancer.
"Stand behind me children, and I let my Forge guide you through the darkness".
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Zepod
Living Like Larry Schwag
2
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Posted - 2014.03.27 16:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Dont think you can play your scout like you have always been. Think more about how you can adapt your fitting and playstyle to be able to counter a heavily tanked scout.
Do not go and tell others what they cannot do just because your tactics fail. I don't need to do anything. Scouts and Heavies all die quickly to my Shotgun anyways.
That doesn't change the fact that Scouts have way too much eHP for their own good. I don't believe you were okay with Logistics users abusing their class for higher eHP, so I'm not too sure why it's okay for Scouts to do the same.
"Stand behind me children, and I let my Forge guide you through the darkness".
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Louis Domi
Pradox One Proficiency V.
128
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Posted - 2014.03.27 16:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
Zepod wrote:How about we increase the CPU/PG requirements of modules that yield HP, and lower the CPU/PG requirements of EWAR and Biotic modules?
That way every suit has to make a sacrifice if they want to have a massive eHP pool, while also encouraging people to do something other than "brick tank".
Shield extenders already have a crappy cpu/pg requirments ._. and you want to add to that?
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Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION
697
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Posted - 2014.03.27 16:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
Lucifalic wrote:My idea is t drop th ability to tank a scout. Let's face it, lore wise (and sense wise) it's a light frame not designed for heavy armor. Therefore.... Don't allow it on the suit. Make it so scouts can only be fit with 1 plate total OR only ferroscale plates. What other arbitrary limits can you think of to impose on the fitting sandbox?
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! <<
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Cotsy8
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
122
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Posted - 2014.03.27 17:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
Lucifalic wrote:Been scout for a long time. Went through nerf after nerf to my frame but stuck it out. Finally we get the suit to where it should be and what do we get? Assaults and slayer logis jumping ship and brick tanking a scout... With a cloak.
This sucks. So what can we do about it. My idea is t drop th ability to tank a scout. Let's face it, lore wise (and sense wise) it's a light frame not designed for heavy armor. Therefore.... Don't allow it on the suit. Make it so scouts can only be fit with 1 plate total OR only ferroscale plates. No one will stack a bunch of ferro plates either as they are resource hogs.
The exception here would be amar scout which being an armor tanking race should be allowed to fit with as many plates as they want. This gives amsr a unique scout that can be a light assault or fit to e more scoutly.
Shields can be fit but any shield module past the first would give a profile penalty (10% basic, 15% advanced, 20% proto) except for the caldari who could fit maybe 2 without penalty or however many that would be balanced. Amar should never use shields
This would end tanked scouts, give amar scout a unique versatile role, and drive slayer logis and assaults from the suit. Give them a suit refund if they submit a ticket or something.
Most scouts didn't want a cloak, but it's easily balanced. Put a delay between decloaking and shooting. Slight sound within say 10 m or something, flux nades should drop the cloak field. It's otherwise fine and 6-700 ehp scouts won't be decloak blapping people. Instead it will be more of a movement aid and escape tool more then an attack tool.
I'm a dedicated gal and mini scout. Sg, smg, cr, nk, remotes.
Remove cloaks, scout keep their bonuses they got in 1.8 including a second equipment a lot and an additional high or low slot. Scouts will be fine without their crutch, i mean cloaks. I was fine in 1.7 and before and I'll be fine once you've removed the in game addition from the CCP hospital.
Scouts are just in denial. I've msg someone about NK invisible,yesterday and he refused to accept he was invisible but clearly seeing the new bug video he was and bad to know. Scouts has it sort of hard for a long time, now they are like superman and batman and don't want to return to a balanced class. Its understandable but it's not reasonable or honest.
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Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION
702
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Posted - 2014.03.27 17:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
Cotsy8 wrote:Remove cloaks Of all the things on the "Most Unlikely Things to Happen" list, this has to be #1, with respect to Dust. Cloaks are here to stay. There needs to be some tweaks (like Flux grenades deactivating the cloak or additional ewar that CCP has hinted cloaks are the first part of), but cloaks are here to stay. Period. It's best you come to terms with this and learn to use your eyes more than the scanner. It'll be a big change from the "You have been scanned" days, yes, but the sooner you learn to see your cloaked scout brethren, the better off you'll be, and the more you'll enjoy Dust.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! <<
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Chibi Andy
Forsaken Immortals Top Men.
1130
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Posted - 2014.03.27 17:13:00 -
[20] - Quote
Lucifalic wrote:Been scout for a long time. Went through nerf after nerf to my frame but stuck it out. Finally we get the suit to where it should be and what do we get? Assaults and slayer logis jumping ship and brick tanking a scout... With a cloak.
This sucks. So what can we do about it. My idea is t drop th ability to tank a scout. Let's face it, lore wise (and sense wise) it's a light frame not designed for heavy armor. Therefore.... Don't allow it on the suit. Make it so scouts can only be fit with 1 plate total OR only ferroscale plates. No one will stack a bunch of ferro plates either as they are resource hogs.
The exception here would be amar scout which being an armor tanking race should be allowed to fit with as many plates as they want. This gives amsr a unique scout that can be a light assault or fit to e more scoutly.
Shields can be fit but any shield module past the first would give a profile penalty (10% basic, 15% advanced, 20% proto) except for the caldari who could fit maybe 2 without penalty or however many that would be balanced. Amar should never use shields
This would end tanked scouts, give amar scout a unique versatile role, and drive slayer logis and assaults from the suit. Give them a suit refund if they submit a ticket or something.
Most scouts didn't want a cloak, but it's easily balanced. Put a delay between decloaking and shooting. Slight sound within say 10 m or something, flux nades should drop the cloak field. It's otherwise fine and 6-700 ehp scouts won't be decloak blapping people. Instead it will be more of a movement aid and escape tool more then an attack tool.
I'm a dedicated gal and mini scout. Sg, smg, cr, nk, remotes.
another idea about those plates, why not make a light armor plate variant that only light suits can use? lower armor points because its "light" armor plates hence you wont get scouts that brick tank it to the point that a medium suit is redundant.
so lets say a light complex armor plate is the equivalent to a STD heavy armor plate? so scouts can get SOME armor but not SO much armor that its on par with a medium frame.
unless this idea is crap and just take out the scouts ability to use armor plates?
YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED!!!
sç+a¦át¢èa¦á)sç+
(pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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Cotsy8
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
125
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Posted - 2014.03.27 17:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
Zepod wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:Dont think you can play your scout like you have always been. Think more about how you can adapt your fitting and playstyle to be able to counter a heavily tanked scout.
Do not go and tell others what they cannot do just because your tactics fail. I don't need to do anything. Scouts and Heavies all die quickly to my Shotgun anyways. That doesn't change the fact that Scouts have way too much eHP for their own good. I don't believe you were okay with Logistics users abusing their class for higher eHP, so I'm not too sure why it's okay for Scouts to do the same.
This is where the cloaks bitches go. There is nothing wrong with brick tanking a scout, just like theres nothing wrong with tanking a Logi. So what if a scout can have 750-800 eHP, they should not be a problem.
A scout can do whatever he wants, if the Amarr scout doesn't want to play the Gal niche of stealth,then he can certainly make his own niche as a high stamina, quick, light infantry unit. You can't see someone not to use his slots however he wants. He is going to pick what he thinks is best, and right now brick tanking is best. It's not abusing the suits, it's not abusing his given slot layout, he is doing what he can with what has been provided. The problem is cloaks, they need to go.
Remove cloaks, cloaks are the problem. They cover up bad game play and are a crutch to ****** players. All you see is former ****** scouts defending how fair the capes are because they went from a 1 k/d scout to a 6 k/d scout and they think they deserve this boost. They don't learn how to play scout properly, they just use the cloak to fix all their problems and attack with no regard.
Cloaks are a crutch and scouts dont want to admit their a problem because it means a Nerf and a return to their old ****** scout days. And as for new scouts, the former Logi slayers, they feel cloaks are a right as well, they want to be able to slay anyone 1v1 in their new suit and are being a bunch of tank x3 hardener deniers.
In a honest assessment of my scout and his cloak, i find the cloak has to go. |
Lucifalic
Nos Nothi
386
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Posted - 2014.03.27 18:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
Harsh people..... im not saying this is the be all end all of what should happen just throwing out some ideas.
Sure buff medium frames more whatever it takes
Remove the cloak?? Sure i was invisible before and never wanted it
Just trying to get something to happen to divide the classes. But as a scout i can honestly say that anyone staying in an assault suit rather then running a gal scout is out of their heads. I can make my scout as strong ehp wise and have better bonuses.... Of course that makes me feel dirty.
I run all my scouts with NO shield and NO armor mods. Now with either two RE or RE uplink... I tried the cloak and it just seems like its in the way and costs too much even 75% reduced.
Here since Closed beta. Scout for life.
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