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843 Epidemic BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 649	Posted - 2014.03.27 13:49:00 - [1] - Quote This guy is getting a lot of heat lately, and while I'm sure the internet attention it satisfying him a little too much, I think it'd be nice to have the collective opinions in one place. What we're dealing with is a 'corrupt' CPM, some might call it. There have been arguments made saying that Kain is not representing the CPM well or the community's best interest by monopolising Molden Heath, destroying competitive gameplay and regulating everyone who isn't under his control. This could be seen as morally wrong, however... Welcome to New Eden? CPM or not, this kind of thing is what EVE and by extension Dust is about. So on the other hand we have the argument that in fact Kain Spero is the very embodiment of this game and its ethos, showing the community and the world just what it's supposed to be about: corruption. Two sides to an argument. Is him being a CPM and doing this anymore corrupt than if he wasn't a CPM? Do you think maybe you're using his title of CPM as an excuse for trying to get CCP to fix the PC situation instead of finding out a way to do it yourselves? Or, do you think being in the position he's in he should be trying to fight for the community, rather than suffocating the competitive element of Dust514? Discuss your thoughts. Should he be CPM? Should be loved, hated, removed, promoted? Is it really Kain behind all this, or is it perhaps a combination of minds. The consensus and label is on Kain but, perhaps it isn't him or isn't just him. I'll keep my opinion to myself and allow everyone else to go at it! Twin brother of 843-BANE
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 677	Posted - 2014.03.27 13:52:00 - [2] - Quote It's just business. xSivartx is my Heavy. There are many like him, but he is my own... So, other Logi's back off, those are my Warpoints!
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3102	Posted - 2014.03.27 13:53:00 - [3] - Quote lolcpm They are all ******* useless anyways Intelligence is OP
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2447	Posted - 2014.03.27 13:54:00 - [4] - Quote I don't think he should be suffocating the competitive element of DUST, as you put it, no. I don't think his status as CPM has any relevance here. All it means is he's more high-profile than he would otherwise be. If he does start acting in a way that does not befit a CPM, I'm sure the other CPMs (who are generally not involved in PC anymore) will inform CCP and steps will be taken. Until that point, I guess you're just going to have to wait until his doughnut goes stale and falls apart. ak.0 4 LYFE Guess who's butthurt about light-assaults!? <------This guy!!
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 1492	Posted - 2014.03.27 13:55:00 - [5] - Quote LOL CPM's meta game and steal money too.. Perfectly legit part of the game... Being a CPM doesn't mean you have to be bad at DUST... or massive parts of it are un-available to you because your CPM... That notion is all about "MEMEMEMEMEMEMEME" And is silly.
843 Epidemic BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 649	Posted - 2014.03.27 13:56:00 - [6] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: I don't think he should be suffocating the competitive element of DUST, as you put it, no. I don't think his status as CPM has any relevance here. All it means is he's more high-profile than he would otherwise be. If he does start acting in a way that does not befit a CPM, I'm sure the other CPMs (who are generally not involved in PC anymore) will inform CCP and steps will be taken. Until that point, I guess you're just going to have to wait until his doughnut goes stale and falls apart. I was merely putting both arguments forward, I'm impartial to his position as, like you say, the doughnut will go stale. I'm just waiting XD Twin brother of 843-BANE
The Robot Devil Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 2192	Posted - 2014.03.27 13:57:00 - [7] - Quote Just drama from people who didn't do it first or whom hate losing to better players. It is nothing new in New Eden that some people QQ while other get things done. To be honest that means something is being done correctly by someone and badly by another. There will always be the one person whom is ruining the game for everyone else according to some people. It is good for the game because it drives conflict, creates content and puts a fire under some to change things. We should embrace our space soap opera and wallow in the tears it creates. It doesn't get better than made up space drama. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
M1tch Rapp Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 6	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:00:00 - [8] - Quote I don't think he's breaking any rules, but what he and the others are doing are 1000x worse than any glitching that Arianna was doing with the melee glitch from a gaming ethics position. The one thing that could come out of it is that CCP realizes that their premier game mode is controlled by a handful of the best players in the game. They only blued up the remainder to make their goals easier. They didn't need to convince FA and RND to join the fold, they would have been able to pull this off without their help. There's just more profit on the table without ANY competition. The problem here is that people don't seem to have a good grasp of the reality of the situation. Soooo many people abandoned PC months and months ago. There's maybe 10 corporations that have been actively involved in PC over the last few months (I'm not counting PFC or AE and NF's fake corps) so it's an issue that few understand. The Dust economy may be so damaged that it will require some adjustments to accounts and that is coming from someone with a pretty decent wallet. The conspiracy theory is that information about the announcement at FanFest and the upcoming PC 2.0 are known to some in certain positions and the big donut is just ensure the strangehold they hold on PC is going to continue despite mechanics changes by having vast amounts of ISK that dwarf anything that a Dust wide coalition could muster.
M1tch Rapp Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 6	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:02:00 - [9] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Just drama from people who didn't do it first or whom hate losing to better players. It is nothing new in New Eden that some people QQ while other get things done. To be honest that means something is being done correctly by someone and badly by another. There will always be the one person whom is ruining the game for everyone else according to some people. It is good for the game because it drives conflict, creates content and puts a fire under some to change things. We should embrace our space soap opera and wallow in the tears it creates. It doesn't get better than made up space drama. Imagine if null sec was dominated by a few dozen players along with all of it's vast fortunes. I'm pretty sure the Eve player base would push for a change in mechanics to prevent this. Regardless of the skill and political savvy of those few dozen I don't believe the sandbox would survive within those parameters.
The Robot Devil Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 2194	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:07:00 - [10] - Quote M1tch Rapp wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Just drama from people who didn't do it first or whom hate losing to better players. It is nothing new in New Eden that some people QQ while other get things done. To be honest that means something is being done correctly by someone and badly by another. There will always be the one person whom is ruining the game for everyone else according to some people. It is good for the game because it drives conflict, creates content and puts a fire under some to change things. We should embrace our space soap opera and wallow in the tears it creates. It doesn't get better than made up space drama. Imagine if null sec was dominated by a few dozen players along with all of it's vast fortunes. I'm pretty sure the Eve player base would push for a change in mechanics to prevent this. Regardless of the skill and political savvy of those few dozen I don't believe the sandbox would survive within those parameters. That is how it is perceived in EVE right now. THE BLUE DOUGHNUT! and if you don't belive me then go listen to any of the last five Podside episodes, it is common knowledge that five people run the game and guide CCP on what to do next. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke

steadyhand amarr TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 2772	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:12:00 - [11] - Quote Kain is perfect conman all nice and poliet with big grins and warm handshakes, but beneathy that his word is only as good as long as its in his best intrest, Thats new eden all over and nothing wrong with that. However that doesnt change the fact he was caught screwing over his fellow clan mates and in general is a **** with the power he has order and like all tirents eventually he will be stabed on the senate floor. :-) "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
The Robot Devil Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 2198	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:13:00 - [12] - Quote Et tu, Brute? Everything comes around full circle and ten fold. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 1494	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:16:00 - [13] - Quote M1tch Rapp wrote: I don't think he's breaking any rules, but what he and the others are doing are 1000x worse than any glitching that Arianna was doing with the melee glitch from a gaming ethics position. . Everyone could do what Arirana did the "glitch" was him just pressing two buttons.... Didn't need to go out and spend 100 bux on a piece of hardware to glitch for you. He pressed buttons rapidly in succession... If it was this godly thing that made you a god amoungst men... Why didn't you see atleast 10 people doing it? How many Cloaked scouts are walking around with their Nova knives out right now TONS, and well known names? How many people did the "Start Select" spam when stuck on death screen to spawn back invisible... Thousands... How many people performed the Melee on Massive groups of people and killed them all... One person... Why? because it was as much skill as anything... Melee in any game is 1-2 shots.... DUST? you be lucky to Melee someone with 10 Hits... Its an absolute joke.. Because people just cant take that they missed half their shots while a guy ran up and punched them in the face. I Will miss Melee in DUST until CCP understands how much it helps immersion and those heated battles.
Altina McAlterson Pure Innocence. EoN. 938	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:27:00 - [14] - Quote I didn't even realize it had become a debate. But now that is official here we go: CCP does not **** around when it comes to NDA abuses and violations. I believe that to be true and I trust that until he is sanctioned/banned/whatever by CCP he hasn't abused his position to gain an unfair advantage over anyone else. On the other hand he has abused to position to gain a completely fair advantage and I applaud him for it. The CPM members don't have to "play nice" anymore than anyone else does in game. And I wouldn't trust them any more or less than anybody else. So what the hell else is everyone talking about? Running a blaster tank in ambush is like bringing Anthrax to a pillow fight.
M1tch Rapp Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 6	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:27:00 - [15] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: M1tch Rapp wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Just drama from people who didn't do it first or whom hate losing to better players. It is nothing new in New Eden that some people QQ while other get things done. To be honest that means something is being done correctly by someone and badly by another. There will always be the one person whom is ruining the game for everyone else according to some people. It is good for the game because it drives conflict, creates content and puts a fire under some to change things. We should embrace our space soap opera and wallow in the tears it creates. It doesn't get better than made up space drama. Imagine if null sec was dominated by a few dozen players along with all of it's vast fortunes. I'm pretty sure the Eve player base would push for a change in mechanics to prevent this. Regardless of the skill and political savvy of those few dozen I don't believe the sandbox would survive within those parameters. That is how it is perceived in EVE right now. THE BLUE DOUGHNUT! and if you don't belive me then go listen to any of the last five Podside episodes, it is common knowledge that five people run the game and guide CCP on what to do next. I am aware of what goes on in Eve. But you are talking about 1000s of players making that possible. I'm literally talking about a few dozen players that can sway the direction of PC overnight. Those 5 people may control thing by meta, but these guys do it with bullets in game. They can do this because of the economics of PC. People spent BILLIONS of ISK for one days of attacks on Nyain San and it accomplished nothing. We won 6 of 8 battles against Nyain during this push and accomplished nothing. There will NEVER be another push by the have nots against the haves. Is everyone supposed to run BPOs for two months and donate ISK to the cause? If the ENTIRE playerbase ran BPOs for a month and donated ALL of their ISK to the cause you might get somewhere. More than likely after a week or so those guys would have enough. It would cost somewhere between 60 and 120 billion ISK and that isn't counting what players would spend on suits. That's just clones. Any land taken in such a push would be lost within a few weeks. On much smaller scales that's why PC has slowly dwindled down to a handful of players and one of the reasons why it's possible for a few dozen people to dictate everything. They are just taking advantage of the lack of participation (because of poor mechanics) by the overall playerbase.
M1tch Rapp Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 8	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:28:00 - [16] - Quote Bethhy wrote: M1tch Rapp wrote: I don't think he's breaking any rules, but what he and the others are doing are 1000x worse than any glitching that Arianna was doing with the melee glitch from a gaming ethics position. . Everyone could do what Arirana did the "glitch" was him just pressing two buttons.... Didn't need to go out and spend 100 bux on a piece of hardware to glitch for you. He pressed buttons rapidly in succession... If it was this godly thing that made you a god amoungst men... Why didn't you see atleast 10 people doing it? How many Cloaked scouts are walking around with their Nova knives out right now TONS, and well known names? How many people did the "Start Select" spam when stuck on death screen to spawn back invisible... Thousands... How many people performed the Melee on Massive groups of people and killed them all... One person... Why? because it was as much skill as anything... Melee in any game is 1-2 shots.... DUST? you be lucky to Melee someone with 10 Hits... Its an absolute joke.. Because people just cant take that they missed half their shots while a guy ran up and punched them in the face. I Will miss Melee in DUST until CCP understands how much it helps immersion and those heated battles. I agree, I thought the QQ over it was stupid. It wasn't a good comparison, but a lot of the people in this donut were ready to fly to Iceland and burn down CCP's office because of it. I thought it might resonate in their heads.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 1500	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:33:00 - [17] - Quote M1tch Rapp wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: M1tch Rapp wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Just drama from people who didn't do it first or whom hate losing to better players. It is nothing new in New Eden that some people QQ while other get things done. To be honest that means something is being done correctly by someone and badly by another. There will always be the one person whom is ruining the game for everyone else according to some people. It is good for the game because it drives conflict, creates content and puts a fire under some to change things. We should embrace our space soap opera and wallow in the tears it creates. It doesn't get better than made up space drama. Imagine if null sec was dominated by a few dozen players along with all of it's vast fortunes. I'm pretty sure the Eve player base would push for a change in mechanics to prevent this. Regardless of the skill and political savvy of those few dozen I don't believe the sandbox would survive within those parameters. That is how it is perceived in EVE right now. THE BLUE DOUGHNUT! and if you don't belive me then go listen to any of the last five Podside episodes, it is common knowledge that five people run the game and guide CCP on what to do next. I am aware of what goes on in Eve. But you are talking about 1000s of players making that possible. I'm literally talking about a few dozen players that can sway the direction of PC overnight. Those 5 people may control thing by meta, but these guys do it with bullets in game. They can do this because of the economics of PC. People spent BILLIONS of ISK for one days of attacks on Nyain San and it accomplished nothing. We won 6 of 8 battles against Nyain during this push and accomplished nothing. There will NEVER be another push by the have nots against the haves. Is everyone supposed to run BPOs for two months and donate ISK to the cause? If the ENTIRE playerbase ran BPOs for a month and donated ALL of their ISK to the cause you might get somewhere. More than likely after a week or so those guys would have enough. It would cost somewhere between 60 and 120 billion ISK and that isn't counting what players would spend on suits. That's just clones. Any land taken in such a push would be lost within a few weeks. On much smaller scales that's why PC has slowly dwindled down to a handful of players and one of the reasons why it's possible for a few dozen people to dictate everything. They are just taking advantage of the lack of participation (because of poor mechanics) by the overall playerbase. That is a Clone pack problem That everyone has complained about. 120 clones only allows you to loose 20 clones to re attack... Clone packs WHERE 150... but cost more... CCP reduced the clone count to reduce the cost of new corporations going for an attack.... You should be fighting for 150 count clone packs so Up and coming corporations have a chance with tactics and execution to be successful. That is something everyone wants. But no one is going to self handicap themselfs... It is a silly concept.
Hecarim Van Hohen Bullet Cluster 774	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:34:00 - [18] - Quote Blue Waffle Cartel TOUGH TITTY, SAID THE KITTY. - Blaine the Mono
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 2002	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:36:00 - [19] - Quote He could've done that Molden Heath thing even without being CPM. Just throwing it out there.
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 2457	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:37:00 - [20] - Quote Kane has advocated a position to burn passive ISK. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=150301&find=unread Video: I don't always fight dropships, but when I do...

NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1235	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:41:00 - [21] - Quote Wow he is getting more Heat than CUBs... Still remember all the "I hate Cubs" threads. . . Cubs you have to step up your game bro lol - He is CPM, so far as a CPM i don't think he used the info to his advantage. - He is a dust player on top being a CPM, so that sort of gives him the right to do whatever he wants in game. If all the other players can't beat him in game or in Meta gaming, then it's not exactly his fault. He is only doing what is best for him and his Corp and allies. Would you do it any differently if you had the chance ?! - He did build IMPs, (Still would love to fight that IMP A team), Spero Escrow Services (Which does all the business legitly) - He out-smarted other Dust politicians. Which was entertaining to watch. Not taking sides, but most of the dust politicians i've come across, they have failed to play their cards properly in time. I have seen so many So called leaders fail at Meta. But the ones that do, have succeeded and received multiple "Hatechu" threads lol Other than people writing so many threads about Kain, Mavado, Cubs, Kujo, Zatara, Radar... Shouldn't people try to outsmart them and beat them or just fight them properly ?! Zerg attacks and **** don't work if you don't have the players for it... EoN made it work... It worked against EoN for the same reasons....
dent 308 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2651	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:43:00 - [22] - Quote I don't see any evidence of an exploit or shenanigan here. What I do see is a large concentration of corps that win and hold districts. This is basically business as usual, the difference being Kain is better at it than others. End of story. Hail Satan
Jadu Wen Xer Deadspace 467	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:47:00 - [23] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: Kane has advocated a position to burn passive ISK. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=150301&find=unread Then again who really trusts you Jadek? You alt scaming conman. GûÆGûêGûæGûæGûÆGûê GûÆGûêGûÇGûÇGûÇ GûÆGûêGûäGûæGûÆGûê GûÆGûêGûÆGûêGûÆGûê GûÆGûêGûÇGûÇGûÇ GûÆGûêGûÆGûêGûÆGûê GûÆGûêGûäGûÇGûäGûê GûÆGûêGûäGûäGûä GûÆGûêGûæGûæGûÇGûê ? SoonGäó
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 844	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:51:00 - [24] - Quote M1tch Rapp wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Just drama from people who didn't do it first or whom hate losing to better players. It is nothing new in New Eden that some people QQ while other get things done. To be honest that means something is being done correctly by someone and badly by another. There will always be the one person whom is ruining the game for everyone else according to some people. It is good for the game because it drives conflict, creates content and puts a fire under some to change things. We should embrace our space soap opera and wallow in the tears it creates. It doesn't get better than made up space drama. Imagine if null sec was dominated by a few dozen players along with all of it's vast fortunes. I'm pretty sure the Eve player base would push for a change in mechanics to prevent this. Regardless of the skill and political savvy of those few dozen I don't believe the sandbox would survive within those parameters. M1tch...good point, however, NulSec IS controlled by a handful of folks. The shear scope means they are Coalition leaders not alliance and Corp leaders but the concept is the same. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Outlaw OneZero Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1346	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:58:00 - [25] - Quote The problem is not his use of power for personal gain. The problem is his use of power to deprive the majority of the playerbase access to 1 of the game modes. As CPM he is supposed to represent the community and support the development of the game. His actions have effectively locked PC and turned it into a nearly passive ISK generating machine. How is the bluing of Molden Heath supporting the community or the development of the game?
dent 308 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2651	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:00:00 - [26] - Quote The only rule of mega coalitions is they implode hilariously. It is only a matter of how long they can keep it running before this happens. Hail Satan
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1237	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:00:00 - [27] - Quote Outlaw OneZero wrote: The problem is not his use of power for personal gain. The problem is his use of power to deprive the majority of the playerbase access to 1 of the game modes. As CPM he is supposed to represent the community and support the development of the game. His actions have effectively locked PC and turned it into a nearly passive ISK generating machine. How is the bluing of Molden Heath supporting the community or the development of the game? How it his, cubs or kujo's or Nayans fault if the community has failed to make a counter blue donut ?!
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 844	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:07:00 - [28] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: Wow he is getting more Heat than CUBs... Still remember all the "I hate Cubs" threads. . . Cubs you have to step up your game bro lol - He is CPM, so far as a CPM i don't think he used the info to his advantage. - He is a dust player on top being a CPM, so that sort of gives him the right to do whatever he wants in game. If all the other players can't beat him in game or in Meta gaming, then it's not exactly his fault. He is only doing what is best for him and his Corp and allies. Would you do it any differently if you had the chance ?! - He did build IMPs, (Still would love to fight that IMP A team), Spero Escrow Services (Which does all the business legitly) - He out-smarted other Dust politicians. Which was entertaining to watch. Not taking sides, but most of the dust politicians i've come across, they have failed to play their cards properly in time. I have seen so many So called leaders fail at Meta. But the ones that do, have succeeded and received multiple "Hatechu" threads lol Other than people writing so many threads about Kain, Mavado, Cubs, Kujo, Zatara, Radar... Shouldn't people try to outsmart them and beat them or just fight them properly ?! Zerg attacks and **** don't work if you don't have the players for it... EoN made it work... It worked against EoN for the same reasons.... NAV you raise some good points and I would offer a couple as well that go along with this: 1) The only person that will ever know if Kane Spero used inside information is him unless someone comes up with 8x10 glossy photos for evidence. Having and NDA doesn't necessarily preclude you from taking action to prepare yourself for things coming down the road. To be clear, I'm not saying he's doing anything underhanded...I'm saying that no one here can make a definitive call that he's abusing CPM information or just sharp at the game....or both. 2) As for outsmarting and outfighting ...I'm with you on this with a couple caveats. The way the game is constructed right now less than a 100 players can rampage through PC and just about shut out the few thousand other players since Dust / gaming is essentially a part time job for them. That is pretty handy accomplishment and I have a healthy amount of respect for that. But it's not healthy for the game long term. I don't want to re-distribute PC corps land / ISK. I want more places for us to fight and more to the point...make time and distance matter. If you had to move to a system to take it like you did in EVE (or more to the point move our assets to the systems via EVE) you would see smaller corps that have a great EVE connection suddenly become very competitive. If we could expand out of Molden Heath you give breathing room for people. So, yes....I want to outfight them in the arena but it's not an option to even step up for most corps or players. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Dauth Jenkins Ultramarine Corp 309	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:10:00 - [29] - Quote Bethhy wrote: M1tch Rapp wrote: I don't think he's breaking any rules, but what he and the others are doing are 1000x worse than any glitching that Arianna was doing with the melee glitch from a gaming ethics position. . Everyone could do what Arirana did the "glitch" was him just pressing two buttons.... Didn't need to go out and spend 100 bux on a piece of hardware to glitch for you. He pressed buttons rapidly in succession... If it was this godly thing that made you a god amoungst men... Why didn't you see atleast 10 people doing it? How many Cloaked scouts are walking around with their Nova knives out right now TONS, and well known names? How many people did the "Start Select" spam when stuck on death screen to spawn back invisible... Thousands... How many people performed the Melee on Massive groups of people and killed them all... One person... Why? because it was as much skill as anything... Melee in any game is 1-2 shots.... DUST? you be lucky to Melee someone with 10 Hits... Its an absolute joke.. Because people just cant take that they missed half their shots while a guy ran up and punched them in the face. I Will miss Melee in DUST until CCP understands how much it helps immersion and those heated battles. It's a shame they nerfed the one good melee.... The commando. 1.7 I used to be able to kill scouts in 1 hit. It was great to punch those knife wielding ninjas back to the respawn screen Sees prototompers... Sees blueberries start to snipe... Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1238	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:21:00 - [30] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: NAV HIV wrote: Wow he is getting more Heat than CUBs... Still remember all the "I hate Cubs" threads. . . Cubs you have to step up your game bro lol - He is CPM, so far as a CPM i don't think he used the info to his advantage. - He is a dust player on top being a CPM, so that sort of gives him the right to do whatever he wants in game. If all the other players can't beat him in game or in Meta gaming, then it's not exactly his fault. He is only doing what is best for him and his Corp and allies. Would you do it any differently if you had the chance ?! - He did build IMPs, (Still would love to fight that IMP A team), Spero Escrow Services (Which does all the business legitly) - He out-smarted other Dust politicians. Which was entertaining to watch. Not taking sides, but most of the dust politicians i've come across, they have failed to play their cards properly in time. I have seen so many So called leaders fail at Meta. But the ones that do, have succeeded and received multiple "Hatechu" threads lol Other than people writing so many threads about Kain, Mavado, Cubs, Kujo, Zatara, Radar... Shouldn't people try to outsmart them and beat them or just fight them properly ?! Zerg attacks and **** don't work if you don't have the players for it... EoN made it work... It worked against EoN for the same reasons.... NAV you raise some good points and I would offer a couple as well that go along with this: 1) The only person that will ever know if Kane Spero used inside information is him unless someone comes up with 8x10 glossy photos for evidence. Having and NDA doesn't necessarily preclude you from taking action to prepare yourself for things coming down the road. To be clear, I'm not saying he's doing anything underhanded...I'm saying that no one here can make a definitive call that he's abusing CPM information or just sharp at the game....or both. 2) As for outsmarting and outfighting ...I'm with you on this with a couple caveats. The way the game is constructed right now less than a 100 players can rampage through PC and just about shut out the few thousand other players since Dust / gaming is essentially a part time job for them. That is pretty handy accomplishment and I have a healthy amount of respect for that. But it's not healthy for the game long term. I don't want to re-distribute PC corps land / ISK. I want more places for us to fight and more to the point...make time and distance matter. If you had to move to a system to take it like you did in EVE (or more to the point move our assets to the systems via EVE) you would see smaller corps that have a great EVE connection suddenly become very competitive. If we could expand out of Molden Heath you give breathing room for people. So, yes....I want to outfight them in the arena but it's not an option to even step up for most corps or players. What you've said is very true... - Regarding CPM using inside info, if i'm not mistaken Jenza had been accused of abusing power at the beginning of PC. But it took only a week to counter everything Jenza might have achieved. Biggest Problem with PC right now is the ISK generation. CCP should remove ISK regeneration and keep it to clones only. Few things to do with those clones: 1. CCP should charge the district holders for holding more than 80 (for Cargo Hub), 100 (Production facilities) This would force District holders to Use the clones, rather than just selling it for free isk without any competition. 2. Should stop giving ISK for selling clones. Replace it with Minerals. Like mining in EvE i guess. Corp can make isk by regenerating minerals and selling it in the marketplace or use it to make weapons and such for the CORP members. But they would still have to pay fines for excess Clones Remove the ISK factor and it would become a whole new ball game. People holding 10-20 districts would be forced to use the excess clones. I'm sure no CORP would want to hold more districts than they need at that point. I'd guess 2-3 districts max per CORP.... that 8-10 mil in clone regen, if it turns into 4-5 mil in fines and taxes for excess clones than PC would change for sure...

Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster 1114	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:24:00 - [31] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: 2) As for outsmarting and outfighting ...I'm with you on this with a couple caveats. The way the game is constructed right now less than a 100 players can rampage through PC and just about shut out the few thousand other players since Dust / gaming is essentially a part time job for them. That is pretty handy accomplishment and I have a healthy amount of respect for that. But it's not healthy for the game long term. IMO that is the big problem with PC and Dust in general. CCP has promised us Mag or PS2 sized battles, but instead we get just bigger than KZ sized battles. I said this was going to be a problem the very day Foxfour laid out how PC would work. All you need is 16 tryhards and PC is yours. Great for inflating the nerd egos of these elite players, but bad for the game. Add on top of that all this passive ISK that these people have farmed from PC and you not have a major barrier to anyone who wants to participate in anything above pub matches, but you have people who can run the best stuff in pub matches and absolutely ruin the experience for new players. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1667	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:26:00 - [32] - Quote CPM not game meta, not the game. It is RL representation for the player base. That CCP allows for popular people in big corps to be elected, knowing that they will get the most votes proves the CPM and CSM useless. It is a product from a company with a customer base. Listen to that customer base as a whole CCP. It is not hard to do. Really, can they not just design filters and data mine common requests off the forums? They have a feedback page. We don't need a "class president" to represent us. That person sure as hell shouldn't ge playing the game anymore than CCP employees except on a closed system for testing. "Stay stealthy scouts." GÇô Ron Burgundy
Altina McAlterson Pure Innocence. EoN. 943	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:28:00 - [33] - Quote Outlaw OneZero wrote: The problem is not his use of power for personal gain. The problem is his use of power to deprive the majority of the playerbase access to 1 of the game modes. As CPM he is supposed to represent the community and support the development of the game. His actions have effectively locked PC and turned it into a nearly passive ISK generating machine. How is the bluing of Molden Heath supporting the community or the development of the game? "The community" exists in real life. So whatever he does in game doesn't support or detract from "the community". He didn't do anything other than seize an opportunity. Poor design choices coupled with a mass exodus of corps and players from PC made the current situation inevitable. If he didn't do it someone else would have and we'd be in the same position. And also thinking he has to be "honorable" just because he's on the CPM is stupid. Running a blaster tank in ambush is like bringing Anthrax to a pillow fight.
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1238	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:31:00 - [34] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: CPM not game meta, not the game. It is RL representation for the player base. That CCP allows for popular people in big corps to be elected, knowing that they will get the most votes proves the CPM and CSM useless. It is a product from a company with a customer base. Listen to that customer base as a whole CCP. It is not hard to do. Really, can they not just design filters and data mine common requests off the forums? They have a feedback page. We don't need a "class president" to represent us. That person sure as hell shouldn't ge playing the game anymore than CCP employees except on a closed system for testing. Stop being a cry baby.... That's the problem with the community, they simply expect to have everything without even trying for it. First it was Orion (Which was decimated by Eon) Then the prolonged EoN vs Cronos War, Then EoN vs LOI lol, Then EoN vs FEC, when EoN became a larger donut... Poeple in EoN actually grabbed what they wanted by force, they lost a lot to get those... But that level of dedication is gone. Now it's like, I want this, CCP can you please hand it over to me in a platter ?!
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1978	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:34:00 - [35] - Quote Realistically speaking the blue donut in MH was the inevitable result of the launch of PC. 1) They intentionally placed in a region with nowhere near enough districts for everyone to be involved. This was because they wanted to test the game mode thoroughly by having the districts fought over constantly 2) The game mode lacks any kind of strategic level geography. It doesn't matter where your districts are, there's no real logistical penalty to having your districts far apart. This means a tiny group of players can control vast amounts of land. Especially if they make a part time job out of studying the balance problems in the game mechanics / maps / systemic flaws (ie: nanohive lag bombs) So what happens? People burn out and stop caring about the land in MH, leaving it in the hands of whoever kept playing the longest. Kind of like a game where the goal is to endure more pain than the other guy. District locking only slowed down the process of reaching this point. Everyone knew locking was going to come to an end eventually, so there's no corruption involved. My bet is that PC being an exhausting, boring game mode wasn't addressed in the last 6 months because something radically different will be replacing it in the near future. No point in polishing the ship when you're about to scuttle it.
Kaughst Nyain San Dirt Nap Squad. 361	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:38:00 - [36] - Quote All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put your herpy derpty districts back together again. "He said he has a alt in STB." "Everyone has a alt in STB."
13ear Ancient Exiles. 185	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:50:00 - [37] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Kain is perfect conman all nice and poliet with big grins and warm handshakes, but beneathy that his word is only as good as long as its in his best intrest, Thats new eden all over and nothing wrong with that. However that doesnt change the fact he was caught screwing over his fellow clan mates and in general is a **** with the power he has order and like all tirents eventually he will be stabed on the senate floor. :-) Winner of EU Squad Cup
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 2246	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:52:00 - [38] - Quote let them have their sector of space let us fight over other sectors, make distance from their current part of space a massive factor, and maybe we have pc back for awhile. again all we need are enough parts of space to fight over that a single large alliance can't hold everything. as it stands the only thing stopping other alliances from attempting to attack them is that their is no way to get a foot hold on molden heath. their are MANY corps that would love to take a swing at the AE alliance but they are doing it right not allowing anyone to get the chance, it's victory without any need for conflict at this point. I do hope the isk farming alliance doesn't just use this new area of space as their next tool, but if it's large enough they do risk spreading themselves too thin.
M1tch Rapp Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 11	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:41:00 - [39] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: M1tch Rapp wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Just drama from people who didn't do it first or whom hate losing to better players. It is nothing new in New Eden that some people QQ while other get things done. To be honest that means something is being done correctly by someone and badly by another. There will always be the one person whom is ruining the game for everyone else according to some people. It is good for the game because it drives conflict, creates content and puts a fire under some to change things. We should embrace our space soap opera and wallow in the tears it creates. It doesn't get better than made up space drama. Imagine if null sec was dominated by a few dozen players along with all of it's vast fortunes. I'm pretty sure the Eve player base would push for a change in mechanics to prevent this. Regardless of the skill and political savvy of those few dozen I don't believe the sandbox would survive within those parameters. M1tch...good point, however, NulSec IS controlled by a handful of folks. The shear scope means they are Coalition leaders not alliance and Corp leaders but the concept is the same. But those few folks couldn't do it without 1000s of players doing their bidding. Kain didn't even need to pull this for them all to keep dominating. He just convinced them to save their ISK and STOP fighting each other. As others have pointed out, Kain has advocated that he wants to stop the passive ISK. Well this is it. They will print ISK until CCP changes things. If the community continues to pat him and the others on the back for a job well done it only breaks the future economy even more.
ER-Bullitt Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1270	Posted - 2014.03.27 17:16:00 - [40] - Quote Its called a headstart, and the folks currently running the show have basically already crossed the isk finish line, a long time ago.... the question is can anyone really catch up at this point? The answer is probably not. You can tweak suits, guns, balance, etc all you want in this perpetual beta game... but you cant turn back time. IF PC is a gamemode meant to be enjoyed by the masses (which it is not, it is the "end game" afterall), then the only way to feasibly fix this "problem" is to press the "reset" button on PC (and in a way, the isk that has been milked from it for the past year) and change the fundamental dynamics of how it works. Guaranteed if that happened you would see a huge exodus, so it wont. When vets decide to clump together in PC and fight the rest of the population, there is nothing anyone can do but bend over. Its math, its logic, its a given. call it defeatist if you want, I'll call it realistic. Decent idea, poor implementation.

ER-Bullitt Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1271	Posted - 2014.03.27 17:22:00 - [41] - Quote Another crazy off the wall idea to help the newer, low-medium tier, corps stand a chance getting started or even surviving in PC might be.... salary caps? It works in some professional sports right? Figure out a way to unstack teams through a skill point cap per side meaning your total team cannot exceed X amount of lifetime skill points. If you exceed the cap, you will be penalized clones or MCC health at the start of the battle based on some formula smarter people can come up with.. or you can reduce your forces to get below the cap (say drop to 15-14 players). Liberal idea I know, just throwing it out there. (please don't yell at me too hard neckbeards)
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster 1116	Posted - 2014.03.27 17:26:00 - [42] - Quote I don't know Kain and I've never been a fan of most of his goons, but I will say this for him and the Imperfects crew. Since way back when I first joined closed Beta they have always been quick to point out to CCP their mistakes and then use what they told CCP not to do to "break the game" demonstrating that they were right. I could be wrong but I think PC implementation was one of those things they said was being implemented poorly from the beginning and would turn into the "blue donut" and now they are once again proving they were right by making it happen. They are showing CCP that band aids like their district locking fix don't cut it and fundemental change is needed. Or they are just being greedy bastards Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster 1119	Posted - 2014.03.27 17:29:00 - [43] - Quote ER-Bullitt wrote: IF PC is a gamemode meant to be enjoyed by the masses (which it is not, it is the "end game" afterall), then the only way to feasibly fix this "problem" is to press the "reset" button on PC (and in a way, the isk that has been milked from it for the past year) and change the fundamental dynamics of how it works. If the profits from PC didn't affect us masses so much I would give exactly zero f*cks about what happens in PC. The problem is the limitless supply of cash it gives these folks to LOLstomp through pubs, which with no PC to actually fight they have nothing else to do playing this game Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Supernus Gigas sNk Syndicate 640	Posted - 2014.03.27 17:52:00 - [44] - Quote Dauth Jenkins wrote: It's a shame they nerfed the one good melee.... The commando. 1.7 I used to be able to kill scouts in 1 hit. It was great to punch those knife wielding ninjas back to the respawn screen The Commando's melee is actually still the same, despite what the stat charts in the devblogs said. Although, CCP might change it in a hotfix, which would suck because the Caldari Commando can get some seriously ridiculous melee damage going. Caldari Commando ck.0 with Three Complex MyoStims and Lv 5 Hand-to-Hand Combat can achieve... 990 MELEE DAMAGE *FIRE UP THE HEAVY MEAT GRINDER! WE'RE HAVIN' CLONE BURGERS TONIGHT, BOYS!*
ER-Bullitt Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1271	Posted - 2014.03.27 18:05:00 - [45] - Quote Supernus Gigas wrote: Dauth Jenkins wrote: It's a shame they nerfed the one good melee.... The commando. 1.7 I used to be able to kill scouts in 1 hit. It was great to punch those knife wielding ninjas back to the respawn screen The Commando's melee is actually still the same, despite what the stat charts in the devblogs said. Although, CCP might change it in a hotfix, which would suck because the Caldari Commando can get some seriously ridiculous melee damage going. Caldari Commando ck.0 with Three Complex MyoStims and Lv 5 Hand-to-Hand Combat can achieve... 990 MELEE DAMAGE That's almost over 9000. Incredible
The Robot Devil Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 2204	Posted - 2014.03.27 20:33:00 - [46] - Quote If you want to fix this then get CCP to change it where a district can be attacked every 12 hours with only 12 hours of warning between battles, I would say that would fix most of the problem. They should have to fight to hold that land and they should have to fight often. If they don't have the man power to hold all the districts then they lose them. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
crazy space 1 GunFall Mobilization 2224	Posted - 2014.03.27 20:36:00 - [47] - Quote well they weren't elected so... duh? Vote for me!
Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives 1677	Posted - 2014.03.27 20:38:00 - [48] - Quote At least he is doing something. IWS is clueless. Jenza only yaps. I don't even know the others. Main is always doing something for or to the community. Who wants some?
SgtDoughnut DUST University Ivy League 546	Posted - 2014.03.27 20:49:00 - [49] - Quote Sounds like the idea behind pc needs to be totally reworked, all isk gained from PC needs to be revoked (yes they track this stuff) and just start over from scratch, will ccp do this...probably not.


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