DUST Search - The Kain Spero Debate

Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:

M1tch Rapp wrote:

The Robot Devil wrote:

Just drama from people who didn't do it first or whom hate losing to better players. It is nothing new in New Eden that some people QQ while other get things done. To be honest that means something is being done correctly by someone and badly by another.

There will always be the one person whom is ruining the game for everyone else according to some people. It is good for the game because it drives conflict, creates content and puts a fire under some to change things. We should embrace our space soap opera and wallow in the tears it creates. It doesn't get better than made up space drama.

Imagine if null sec was dominated by a few dozen players along with all of it's vast fortunes. I'm pretty sure the Eve player base would push for a change in mechanics to prevent this.

Regardless of the skill and political savvy of those few dozen I don't believe the sandbox would survive within those parameters.

M1tch...good point, however, NulSec IS controlled by a handful of folks. The shear scope means they are Coalition leaders not alliance and Corp leaders but the concept is the same.

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Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster 1114	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:24:00 - [31] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: 2) As for outsmarting and outfighting ...I'm with you on this with a couple caveats. The way the game is constructed right now less than a 100 players can rampage through PC and just about shut out the few thousand other players since Dust / gaming is essentially a part time job for them. That is pretty handy accomplishment and I have a healthy amount of respect for that. But it's not healthy for the game long term. IMO that is the big problem with PC and Dust in general. CCP has promised us Mag or PS2 sized battles, but instead we get just bigger than KZ sized battles. I said this was going to be a problem the very day Foxfour laid out how PC would work. All you need is 16 tryhards and PC is yours. Great for inflating the nerd egos of these elite players, but bad for the game. Add on top of that all this passive ISK that these people have farmed from PC and you not have a major barrier to anyone who wants to participate in anything above pub matches, but you have people who can run the best stuff in pub matches and absolutely ruin the experience for new players. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1667	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:26:00 - [32] - Quote CPM not game meta, not the game. It is RL representation for the player base. That CCP allows for popular people in big corps to be elected, knowing that they will get the most votes proves the CPM and CSM useless. It is a product from a company with a customer base. Listen to that customer base as a whole CCP. It is not hard to do. Really, can they not just design filters and data mine common requests off the forums? They have a feedback page. We don't need a "class president" to represent us. That person sure as hell shouldn't ge playing the game anymore than CCP employees except on a closed system for testing. "Stay stealthy scouts." GÇô Ron Burgundy
Altina McAlterson Pure Innocence. EoN. 943	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:28:00 - [33] - Quote Outlaw OneZero wrote: The problem is not his use of power for personal gain. The problem is his use of power to deprive the majority of the playerbase access to 1 of the game modes. As CPM he is supposed to represent the community and support the development of the game. His actions have effectively locked PC and turned it into a nearly passive ISK generating machine. How is the bluing of Molden Heath supporting the community or the development of the game? "The community" exists in real life. So whatever he does in game doesn't support or detract from "the community". He didn't do anything other than seize an opportunity. Poor design choices coupled with a mass exodus of corps and players from PC made the current situation inevitable. If he didn't do it someone else would have and we'd be in the same position. And also thinking he has to be "honorable" just because he's on the CPM is stupid. Running a blaster tank in ambush is like bringing Anthrax to a pillow fight.
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1238	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:31:00 - [34] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: CPM not game meta, not the game. It is RL representation for the player base. That CCP allows for popular people in big corps to be elected, knowing that they will get the most votes proves the CPM and CSM useless. It is a product from a company with a customer base. Listen to that customer base as a whole CCP. It is not hard to do. Really, can they not just design filters and data mine common requests off the forums? They have a feedback page. We don't need a "class president" to represent us. That person sure as hell shouldn't ge playing the game anymore than CCP employees except on a closed system for testing. Stop being a cry baby.... That's the problem with the community, they simply expect to have everything without even trying for it. First it was Orion (Which was decimated by Eon) Then the prolonged EoN vs Cronos War, Then EoN vs LOI lol, Then EoN vs FEC, when EoN became a larger donut... Poeple in EoN actually grabbed what they wanted by force, they lost a lot to get those... But that level of dedication is gone. Now it's like, I want this, CCP can you please hand it over to me in a platter ?!
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1978	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:34:00 - [35] - Quote Realistically speaking the blue donut in MH was the inevitable result of the launch of PC. 1) They intentionally placed in a region with nowhere near enough districts for everyone to be involved. This was because they wanted to test the game mode thoroughly by having the districts fought over constantly 2) The game mode lacks any kind of strategic level geography. It doesn't matter where your districts are, there's no real logistical penalty to having your districts far apart. This means a tiny group of players can control vast amounts of land. Especially if they make a part time job out of studying the balance problems in the game mechanics / maps / systemic flaws (ie: nanohive lag bombs) So what happens? People burn out and stop caring about the land in MH, leaving it in the hands of whoever kept playing the longest. Kind of like a game where the goal is to endure more pain than the other guy. District locking only slowed down the process of reaching this point. Everyone knew locking was going to come to an end eventually, so there's no corruption involved. My bet is that PC being an exhausting, boring game mode wasn't addressed in the last 6 months because something radically different will be replacing it in the near future. No point in polishing the ship when you're about to scuttle it.
Kaughst Nyain San Dirt Nap Squad. 361	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:38:00 - [36] - Quote All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put your herpy derpty districts back together again. "He said he has a alt in STB." "Everyone has a alt in STB."
13ear Ancient Exiles. 185	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:50:00 - [37] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Kain is perfect conman all nice and poliet with big grins and warm handshakes, but beneathy that his word is only as good as long as its in his best intrest, Thats new eden all over and nothing wrong with that. However that doesnt change the fact he was caught screwing over his fellow clan mates and in general is a **** with the power he has order and like all tirents eventually he will be stabed on the senate floor. :-) Winner of EU Squad Cup
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 2246	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:52:00 - [38] - Quote let them have their sector of space let us fight over other sectors, make distance from their current part of space a massive factor, and maybe we have pc back for awhile. again all we need are enough parts of space to fight over that a single large alliance can't hold everything. as it stands the only thing stopping other alliances from attempting to attack them is that their is no way to get a foot hold on molden heath. their are MANY corps that would love to take a swing at the AE alliance but they are doing it right not allowing anyone to get the chance, it's victory without any need for conflict at this point. I do hope the isk farming alliance doesn't just use this new area of space as their next tool, but if it's large enough they do risk spreading themselves too thin.
M1tch Rapp Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 11	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:41:00 - [39] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: M1tch Rapp wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Just drama from people who didn't do it first or whom hate losing to better players. It is nothing new in New Eden that some people QQ while other get things done. To be honest that means something is being done correctly by someone and badly by another. There will always be the one person whom is ruining the game for everyone else according to some people. It is good for the game because it drives conflict, creates content and puts a fire under some to change things. We should embrace our space soap opera and wallow in the tears it creates. It doesn't get better than made up space drama. Imagine if null sec was dominated by a few dozen players along with all of it's vast fortunes. I'm pretty sure the Eve player base would push for a change in mechanics to prevent this. Regardless of the skill and political savvy of those few dozen I don't believe the sandbox would survive within those parameters. M1tch...good point, however, NulSec IS controlled by a handful of folks. The shear scope means they are Coalition leaders not alliance and Corp leaders but the concept is the same. But those few folks couldn't do it without 1000s of players doing their bidding. Kain didn't even need to pull this for them all to keep dominating. He just convinced them to save their ISK and STOP fighting each other. As others have pointed out, Kain has advocated that he wants to stop the passive ISK. Well this is it. They will print ISK until CCP changes things. If the community continues to pat him and the others on the back for a job well done it only breaks the future economy even more.
ER-Bullitt Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1270	Posted - 2014.03.27 17:16:00 - [40] - Quote Its called a headstart, and the folks currently running the show have basically already crossed the isk finish line, a long time ago.... the question is can anyone really catch up at this point? The answer is probably not. You can tweak suits, guns, balance, etc all you want in this perpetual beta game... but you cant turn back time. IF PC is a gamemode meant to be enjoyed by the masses (which it is not, it is the "end game" afterall), then the only way to feasibly fix this "problem" is to press the "reset" button on PC (and in a way, the isk that has been milked from it for the past year) and change the fundamental dynamics of how it works. Guaranteed if that happened you would see a huge exodus, so it wont. When vets decide to clump together in PC and fight the rest of the population, there is nothing anyone can do but bend over. Its math, its logic, its a given. call it defeatist if you want, I'll call it realistic. Decent idea, poor implementation.

ER-Bullitt Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1271	Posted - 2014.03.27 17:22:00 - [41] - Quote Another crazy off the wall idea to help the newer, low-medium tier, corps stand a chance getting started or even surviving in PC might be.... salary caps? It works in some professional sports right? Figure out a way to unstack teams through a skill point cap per side meaning your total team cannot exceed X amount of lifetime skill points. If you exceed the cap, you will be penalized clones or MCC health at the start of the battle based on some formula smarter people can come up with.. or you can reduce your forces to get below the cap (say drop to 15-14 players). Liberal idea I know, just throwing it out there. (please don't yell at me too hard neckbeards)
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster 1116	Posted - 2014.03.27 17:26:00 - [42] - Quote I don't know Kain and I've never been a fan of most of his goons, but I will say this for him and the Imperfects crew. Since way back when I first joined closed Beta they have always been quick to point out to CCP their mistakes and then use what they told CCP not to do to "break the game" demonstrating that they were right. I could be wrong but I think PC implementation was one of those things they said was being implemented poorly from the beginning and would turn into the "blue donut" and now they are once again proving they were right by making it happen. They are showing CCP that band aids like their district locking fix don't cut it and fundemental change is needed. Or they are just being greedy bastards Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster 1119	Posted - 2014.03.27 17:29:00 - [43] - Quote ER-Bullitt wrote: IF PC is a gamemode meant to be enjoyed by the masses (which it is not, it is the "end game" afterall), then the only way to feasibly fix this "problem" is to press the "reset" button on PC (and in a way, the isk that has been milked from it for the past year) and change the fundamental dynamics of how it works. If the profits from PC didn't affect us masses so much I would give exactly zero f*cks about what happens in PC. The problem is the limitless supply of cash it gives these folks to LOLstomp through pubs, which with no PC to actually fight they have nothing else to do playing this game Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Supernus Gigas sNk Syndicate 640	Posted - 2014.03.27 17:52:00 - [44] - Quote Dauth Jenkins wrote: It's a shame they nerfed the one good melee.... The commando. 1.7 I used to be able to kill scouts in 1 hit. It was great to punch those knife wielding ninjas back to the respawn screen The Commando's melee is actually still the same, despite what the stat charts in the devblogs said. Although, CCP might change it in a hotfix, which would suck because the Caldari Commando can get some seriously ridiculous melee damage going. Caldari Commando ck.0 with Three Complex MyoStims and Lv 5 Hand-to-Hand Combat can achieve... 990 MELEE DAMAGE *FIRE UP THE HEAVY MEAT GRINDER! WE'RE HAVIN' CLONE BURGERS TONIGHT, BOYS!*
ER-Bullitt Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1271	Posted - 2014.03.27 18:05:00 - [45] - Quote Supernus Gigas wrote: Dauth Jenkins wrote: It's a shame they nerfed the one good melee.... The commando. 1.7 I used to be able to kill scouts in 1 hit. It was great to punch those knife wielding ninjas back to the respawn screen The Commando's melee is actually still the same, despite what the stat charts in the devblogs said. Although, CCP might change it in a hotfix, which would suck because the Caldari Commando can get some seriously ridiculous melee damage going. Caldari Commando ck.0 with Three Complex MyoStims and Lv 5 Hand-to-Hand Combat can achieve... 990 MELEE DAMAGE That's almost over 9000. Incredible
The Robot Devil Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 2204	Posted - 2014.03.27 20:33:00 - [46] - Quote If you want to fix this then get CCP to change it where a district can be attacked every 12 hours with only 12 hours of warning between battles, I would say that would fix most of the problem. They should have to fight to hold that land and they should have to fight often. If they don't have the man power to hold all the districts then they lose them. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
crazy space 1 GunFall Mobilization 2224	Posted - 2014.03.27 20:36:00 - [47] - Quote well they weren't elected so... duh? Vote for me!
Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives 1677	Posted - 2014.03.27 20:38:00 - [48] - Quote At least he is doing something. IWS is clueless. Jenza only yaps. I don't even know the others. Main is always doing something for or to the community. Who wants some?
SgtDoughnut DUST University Ivy League 546	Posted - 2014.03.27 20:49:00 - [49] - Quote Sounds like the idea behind pc needs to be totally reworked, all isk gained from PC needs to be revoked (yes they track this stuff) and just start over from scratch, will ccp do this...probably not.


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