DUST Search - Heavy Nerf is Unfair

Lady MDK wrote:

I don't normally play as a heavy (however u eave on occasion) but 20% does sounds like a hell of a lot to nock off in one go especially so soon after the update.

The heavy suits need to keep viable roles as well CCP needs to bear this in mind when/if they swing the nerf bat again.

Sentinel - How will the loss of EHP affect them, the anti vehicle suit, are they able to stand up to vehicles how many do they envisage it will take to destroy say a tank. Are there to be two heavy weapons one anti infantry and one anti vehicle. The forge seems effective at both while the HMG seems killer against infantry but ive never seen anyone destroy a vehicle with one (is it possible?) Is the effect of Heavy AV weapons overpowered against lighter infantry? how many medium suits should be able to take down a sentinel with the correct weaponry?

Commando - Anti infantry - Does having the ability to carry 2 light weapons make them a hard target to balance? especially when they can have say 2 mass drivers and effectively fire a continuous stream of shots without stopping to refill with ammo? this in itself is a balancing feature witch the commando can completely negate - its meant to be able to tank more then a medium as its based on the heavy class - but Is negating the reload is an exploit of sorts...? Sure any suit can do it but a medium/light swaps from a light to a sidearm which has different characteristics the commando can continuously fire 1 class of weapon. Yet to force 1 light and one anti vehicle weapon is breaking the sandbox.

I don't have answers only questions that ccp may ask themselves before making any changes.

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ThePrinceOfNigeria Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 394	Posted - 2014.03.26 17:20:00 - [31] - Quote Joey-Number1 wrote: ThePrinceOfNigeria wrote: Can't tell if trolling or just dumb... Seriously, ** those heavies!!! Dying in less than 2 seconds from the HMG and i'm unable to fight back. Took a heavy down to half armor with my rifle. The heavy casually jumps backwards switches to his HMG and lights me up and i'm dead before I can finish him off flips table** Lol that is when your real skills and teamwork comes in to play... If you think you can survive a fight against a heavy while he clearly sees you in front of him then you really need to adjust your tactics, especially if he is close quarters. He would be dead being in a area in range of more than 40m. You can't take away one usefull tactic of a sentinel heavy being good in protecting of close quarters. No you don't understand. I caught him from BEHIND by surprise. He had no idea where I was shooting from until he jumped backwards and saw me. Yes I was close range, but ffs I had the element of surprise! Unloaded an entire clip into the guy and he just turned around and melted me. He should have died due to a lack of situational awareness not be God Mode in a fat suit.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 1187	Posted - 2014.03.26 17:22:00 - [32] - Quote Are people really complaining about scouts who can kill a heavy within 3-4 shotgun hits?
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster 2845	Posted - 2014.03.26 18:23:00 - [33] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: See? Yup, I never said it does, but the OP says it should. He said it takes about 3, not that it should. He's talking about average on a game to game basis. Not what should be the definitive as to what it takes to kill heavies. Two clear distinct differences. He said it takes 3 people to kill a heavy and that it should take 3 people to do so. Go on, look. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2739	Posted - 2014.03.26 18:27:00 - [34] - Quote "WAAAAAAAAAAHHH I dont want for one person to be able to kill me regardless of skill, it should always take a group just because Im in a heavy suit, WAAAAAAAAAH" I think I got my impersonation of you pretty spot on I'll start my own war, with hookers, and blackjack! In fact forget the war and the blackjack.
xSivartx D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 45	Posted - 2014.03.26 18:39:00 - [35] - Quote I love how 3 people in militia gear got mad at me when I killed them and was wearing full proto heavy in cqc. When running expendable outfits, be prepared to be expended. Heavies are in a nice state for once. I've died plenty in the new suits to lesser tiers. But militia, like in EVE, should be killed on sight and have little backlash.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6203	Posted - 2014.03.26 18:48:00 - [36] - Quote Defy Gravity wrote: It takes around 3-4 people to take me down. 1. No, that's not how it's supposed to be. 2. What the he!l are they using? Flaylock Pistols?! The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 108	Posted - 2014.03.26 19:38:00 - [37] - Quote I don't get the Cal heavy hate, I love that suit. It's a skirmish heavy like the rest of the caldari line. You move in hit em then you move away to let your shields pop. Dat 1 second depleted delay + 40-50 regen with mods, I love it. Please community keep ignoring it so I can have my one useful shield suit, well that and the caldari light is good at hit and run as well. That aside, yeah I'm not looking forward to sentinels becoming commandos. That's what -20% ehp is going to do, it's going to make sentinels commandos, god help us if they do -20% ehp to commandos, that's going to make commandos weaker then medium suits in terms of ehp potential. And I really wanted my diversity of suits :I, why you gotta bust our balls CCP? What you guys really need to focus on is making the minmitar assault and heavies not ******** alternatives. Who thought paper heavies and assaults would be a good thing? They need to be much faster than they are if that's the case.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 108	Posted - 2014.03.26 19:40:00 - [38] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: "WAAAAAAAAAAHHH I dont want for one person to be able to kill me regardless of skill, it should always take a group just because Im in a heavy suit, WAAAAAAAAAH" I think I got my impersonation of you pretty spot on You not having gun game isn't our problem. I kill heavies by myself in a medium suit with a rifle all the time. You can't take them head on, you flank them. It's like scouts whining that they can't take an assault suit head on and win. Play to your strengths not theirs.
Lady MDK Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 71	Posted - 2014.03.26 19:58:00 - [39] - Quote I don't normally play as a heavy (however u eave on occasion) but 20% does sounds like a hell of a lot to nock off in one go especially so soon after the update. The heavy suits need to keep viable roles as well CCP needs to bear this in mind when/if they swing the nerf bat again. Sentinel - How will the loss of EHP affect them, the anti vehicle suit, are they able to stand up to vehicles how many do they envisage it will take to destroy say a tank. Are there to be two heavy weapons one anti infantry and one anti vehicle. The forge seems effective at both while the HMG seems killer against infantry but ive never seen anyone destroy a vehicle with one (is it possible?) Is the effect of Heavy AV weapons overpowered against lighter infantry? how many medium suits should be able to take down a sentinel with the correct weaponry? Commando - Anti infantry - Does having the ability to carry 2 light weapons make them a hard target to balance? especially when they can have say 2 mass drivers and effectively fire a continuous stream of shots without stopping to refill with ammo? this in itself is a balancing feature witch the commando can completely negate - its meant to be able to tank more then a medium as its based on the heavy class - but Is negating the reload is an exploit of sorts...? Sure any suit can do it but a medium/light swaps from a light to a sidearm which has different characteristics the commando can continuously fire 1 class of weapon. Yet to force 1 light and one anti vehicle weapon is breaking the sandbox. I don't have answers only questions that ccp may ask themselves before making any changes. Anyone getting annoyed by reading of the above post should consider the following. I don't care so neither should you :)
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 109	Posted - 2014.03.26 20:08:00 - [40] - Quote Lady MDK wrote: I don't normally play as a heavy (however u eave on occasion) but 20% does sounds like a hell of a lot to nock off in one go especially so soon after the update. The heavy suits need to keep viable roles as well CCP needs to bear this in mind when/if they swing the nerf bat again. Sentinel - How will the loss of EHP affect them, the anti vehicle suit, are they able to stand up to vehicles how many do they envisage it will take to destroy say a tank. Are there to be two heavy weapons one anti infantry and one anti vehicle. The forge seems effective at both while the HMG seems killer against infantry but ive never seen anyone destroy a vehicle with one (is it possible?) Is the effect of Heavy AV weapons overpowered against lighter infantry? how many medium suits should be able to take down a sentinel with the correct weaponry? Commando - Anti infantry - Does having the ability to carry 2 light weapons make them a hard target to balance? especially when they can have say 2 mass drivers and effectively fire a continuous stream of shots without stopping to refill with ammo? this in itself is a balancing feature witch the commando can completely negate - its meant to be able to tank more then a medium as its based on the heavy class - but Is negating the reload is an exploit of sorts...? Sure any suit can do it but a medium/light swaps from a light to a sidearm which has different characteristics the commando can continuously fire 1 class of weapon. Yet to force 1 light and one anti vehicle weapon is breaking the sandbox. I don't have answers only questions that ccp may ask themselves before making any changes. Hmgs can only really kill a parked or stupid LAV, a smart LAV will drive away if they are getting hammered. It takes around 20-30 seconds of being next to a heavy machine gun for a LAV to go boom from it. Even swarm launchers are better at AV then a HMG. The Forge is hard to beam infantry with, id go as far as to say the hardest weapon to beam with aside from the potato gun aka the PLC. And commandos, try one out. Being able to cycle two mass drivers doesn't really matter when you have a hitbox the size of Texas and about 200 more ehp then a std assault that will be running circles around you. There's a reason commandos are like unicorns. And this proposed debuff is going to make caldari and minmitar heavies ******** while attempting to balance the top ehp potential of amarr and gallente. Blanket nerfs always screw things over, it's like when the shield nerf hit/armor buff to fix caldari FOTM. Collateral became the now useless minmitar assault who used similar mechanics but was even more dependent on shields than the Caldari.

XxWarlordxX97 4227	Posted - 2014.03.26 20:17:00 - [41] - Quote Defy Gravity wrote: Reaching out to all the heavys..... This is BS! As if being 3 shot by a gallente scout was enough Heavys DO NOT need to be nerfed Cal and Min are already poop and will be poop x2 if this nerf is applied..... It takes around 3-4 people to take me down which is HOW the heavy is supposed to be heck usually im solo'ed by a proto scout that 3 to 4 shots me. and combat rifles chew through my ehp like nothing! If your going to nerf heavys limit the damage mods and hardeners a tank can have so im not 3 to 4 shot killed by a tank and can last in a fight against one. I have to say its fun to hear people supporting heavies Elite heavy "I don't rage.I get even" I will ring for A.E. for 1 to 2 million I love the Caldari Sentinel
Soldiersaint Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 770	Posted - 2014.03.26 20:20:00 - [42] - Quote Awesome Pantaloons wrote: Agree with OP. Heavy is fine. To hell with all of you saying they need one. Cody, don't be butthurt because your squishy scout gets mowed down by an HMG. A heavy should not be soloed by anything but another heavy in CQC. From range is a different story. Try playing as a heavy and see if your opinions still stand. ..I., -_- ,.I.. As a minnie logi this makes me sad. Iove watching the heavies that i heal destroy everything. no matter how bad you get nerfed ill be right behind you guys!
Poncho Polous The Phoenix Federation 68	Posted - 2014.03.26 20:23:00 - [43] - Quote Chief-Shotty wrote: Leave the heavies alone..i mainly run commando and still get chewed through when taking sufficient fire. Just don't fight straight up whenever you see a heavy. In my minmatar assault suit ,when i see a heavy, im outta there you ain't never seen a assault suit run so fast. Scouts been eating heavies alive all day when i played and i still managed to kill a couple sneaking up on me when i turned to check my tail.....because ya know paranoia and all. They are Heavies....#DEALWITHIT If funneled into a tight area and all the people are running strait at you then yes it will take numbers to take down a heavy. Does any smart player think that's a good way to take down a heavy though? There's a pretty limited area in the maps that allows a heavy to be at it's best, and in that limited situation heavies are and should be the strongest unit, though even then a little stealth with a shotgun still does it, we've all seen the scouts bragging about how good life is for them ATM. I think the best solution to the heavy spam is not to touch heavies, but to just take away their ability to wield light weapons and work on fixing assault suits. I will never use a light weapon on my heavy I think it's silly and really not even very effective, but for an assault it would be frustrating so that argument is fair, but to take away the EHP of heavies by approx. 20% is to make barely able to hold more armor than other suits, while we are big fat and slow in return. We are forced to get into a safe place in short distance cover to kill comfortably - should the only benefit to a heavy suit be solely its ability to wield the HMG/FG? (not that the FG works anymore) Make the assault class able to compete with heavy/logi warfare by granting bonuses to assault themselves, give assaults a real reason to be an assault and people will use them, simply making the people around them weaker is not a good solution in my eyes. I've reserved all tears to the confines of my own corp members ears until now - But I'm not just here to complain - I'd just like to see some realistic solutions being formed. CEO > The Phoenix Federation > We da BUSSS!! We takin over!
D4GG3R Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 67	Posted - 2014.03.26 20:23:00 - [44] - Quote Duran Lex wrote: Awesome Pantaloons wrote: Agree with OP. Heavy is fine. To hell with all of you saying they need one. Cody, don't be butthurt because your squishy scout gets mowed down by an HMG. A heavy should not be soloed by anything but another heavy in CQC. From range is a different story. Try playing as a heavy and see if your opinions still stand. ..I., -_- ,.I.. I wouldn't agree with him. While Heavies do not need the 20% ehp nerf imo, this guy makes absolutely no sense. He complains about being 3 shot. Then claims it takes 3-4 people to take him down. Followed by a complaint of Proto scouts killing him in 3-4 shots. This dude has no idea what he is talking about. I can solo heavies as is in my scout, they don't need nerf. Shout out to all my Pre-1.8 scout brothers!
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 109	Posted - 2014.03.26 20:23:00 - [45] - Quote Soldiersaint wrote: Awesome Pantaloons wrote: Agree with OP. Heavy is fine. To hell with all of you saying they need one. Cody, don't be butthurt because your squishy scout gets mowed down by an HMG. A heavy should not be soloed by anything but another heavy in CQC. From range is a different story. Try playing as a heavy and see if your opinions still stand. ..I., -_- ,.I.. As a minnie logi this makes me sad. Iove watching the heavies that i heal destroy everything. no matter how bad you get nerfed ill be right behind you guys! Even in their current state they are still solo-able if you flank them and aren't face hugging them with a non CQC weapon, remember guys, heavies can punch too and they punch hard. All the hate on this I think is premature. From the games I played yesterday, heavy and scout spam was happening because of the new suits and the only time I was seeing heavies dominate was in proto stomps where the other team was running mlt and std medium suits. Most of this is just more clouding of the fact that the NPE is deplorable and CCP just needs to create a better battle academy combined with an intermediate playground for new players to get more than 600k SP before getting face ****** by 30mil sp vets.
xSir Campsalotx G0DS AM0NG MEN D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 169	Posted - 2014.03.26 22:33:00 - [46] - Quote It is pretty funny there are nothing but twig men running around and the heavy is OP? Here I was feeling bad for them after fluxing a pro cal sentinel then 1 shotting him with my duvolle shotgun, putting an RE on a wall watching a heavy walk into with my passive scan (hiding and cloaked) blowing it then finishing off the last 100 armor with my sub. Poor min most of all so squishy 3 shots usually. G0DS AM0NG MEN Director 1.8 is going to be Heavy 514 they said... Looking around all I see are twig men
The Terminator T-1000 Skynet Incorporated 261	Posted - 2014.03.26 22:49:00 - [47] - Quote Luna Angelo wrote: Now, a STD Gal Heavy with 1200 armor is rediculous. I saw two of them earlier, in the same match. That said, they ARE heavies. Please explain to me how a Standard Gallante can have 1200 armor
Rusty Shallows 1270	Posted - 2014.03.26 23:17:00 - [48] - Quote Atiim wrote: Defy Gravity wrote: It takes around 3-4 people to take me down. 1. No, that's not how it's supposed to be. 2. What the he!l are they using? Flaylock Pistols?! I couldn't help but notice you cut out the part about being readily soloed by a proto. The same thought about needing that many people caught me off guard too. Maybe he's bricked and able to use easy cover in a tight area. Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster 1109	Posted - 2014.03.26 23:21:00 - [49] - Quote Awesome Pantaloons wrote: A heavy should not be soloed by anything but another heavy in CQC. Yeah just like how in rock, paper, scissors rock is so badass that only another rock can take it out I swear I don't know where you kids get these "this is supposed to be that" ideas from. The game developers decide that sort of thing junior, not you. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster 1109	Posted - 2014.03.26 23:23:00 - [50] - Quote D4GG3R wrote: I can solo heavies as is in my scout, they don't need nerf. So long as scouts can solo heavies everything is fine? F*ck anyone who isn't a scout or heavy though right? Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.

Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 1992	Posted - 2014.03.26 23:41:00 - [51] - Quote While I think a nerf can help out (at least a fitting nerf like WTF), 20% to health is WAY too much.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster 1112	Posted - 2014.03.26 23:45:00 - [52] - Quote Joel II X wrote: While I think a nerf can help out (at least a fitting nerf like WTF), 20% to health is WAY too much. If I was to do the heavy nerf I would cut the secondary resistance all together, I would make the primary resistance 2% per level instead of 3%, and lower CPU/PG so they can't run proto everything so easily like they now can (no one else can BTW but Sentinels) Obviously that is more work than just slashing the EHP so CCP take the easier path Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.


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