DUST Search - Warning: Do not go Caldari Sentinal (shield regen issue)

Bones McGavins wrote:

Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:

Bones McGavins wrote:

Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:

So when you are at zero shields, you're in armour, and you take a subsequent hit (resetting the delay) it uses the standard delay rather than the depleted delay, correct?

That was my findings yes. This was with self inflicted damage though, so I suppose further tests could be done to make sure the bug happens on enemy fire as well.

With the effectively instant depleted recharge that we'll potentially get due to the tick based nature of shield regen, does that not mean that the depleted regen will instantly fire off every time the shields are completely depleted, thus giving a sliver of shield HP and preventing this from occurring?

Outside of the Cal sentinel, I would view this as a positive thing for shields, intentional or not.
The 1s depleted delay is going to be... interesting, though. If you wish, I can assist you recording this post-1.8 (I have a capture card) as it's worth testing out.

Well isnt there a 1 second recharge delay for caldari sentinal? I would assume it would wait that second before firing off and any incoming fire prior to second would interrupt and cause the 4 second delay to trigger. But yes, it would be a net gain for shield users (though the best scenario would be no reset once the depleted trigger occured). We can definitely record the actual impact on the caldari sentinal post 1.8. Ill add you as a contact and hit you up in game to do it, should be pretty straight forward in FW.

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Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 613	Posted - 2014.03.24 18:01:00 - [1] - Quote I ran some tests this weekend to determine exactly how shield regen works to see how potentially OP the Caldari Sentinal might be. I was testing to see if damage taken to armor after the shield had been depleted would re-trigger the delay. If not, the Caldari Sentinal would be insanely powerful. Well, the answer is, yes, it does retrigger the delay. That is probably what people assumed, and that is not the issue I found. The issue I found is, when re-triggering the delay, the regular recharge rate is used, not the shield depleted delay. The only time the depleted delay is used is for when the shield drops to 0. Any other damage that comes in after uses the original delay. This means it will be very very rare to actually trigger the coveted 1 second depleted delay. My test was simple, I ran an Amarr Heavy with assault forge. 3 splashes from my forge took out my shields, a 4th damaged my armor. Amarr Heavy has a 7 second recharge delay and a 10 second depleted recharge delay. My first test was to instantly fire the 4th shot. The charge up time was roughly 3 seconds, so 3 seconds after my shield popped I took additional damage. My shield regen started at 10 seconds. At first I thought the regen ignored the additional damage, but further tests proved otherwise. I then re-ran the test with a 5 second delay before firing the 4th shot. This meant, 8 seconds after my shield popped, I recieved damage. At 15 seconds after my shield initially popped (7 seconds later) my regen kicked in. I varied the delay, and even switched from forge to flux+ overheating a SCR. All results were the same, damage taken with 0 shields triggered a standard recharge delay, not a depleted delay. This is likely a bug. I will submit it and try to record it. What this means though, is that the Caldari Sentinal likely will very rarely see its 1 second depleted delay in use, as further bullets that hit after the one that brought shield to 0 will trigger its standard delay. So be warry when making a build to take advantage of that 1 second delay.
Jax Saurian GunFall Mobilization 182	Posted - 2014.03.24 18:10:00 - [2] - Quote That was a lot of words so for everyone's sake TLDR: Shield regeneration delay is bugged "and when they catch you, they will kill you... ...but first they must catch you" motto of the scouts Closed Beta Vet
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2317	Posted - 2014.03.24 18:13:00 - [3] - Quote Jax Saurian wrote: That was a lot of words so for everyone's sake TLDR: Shield regeneration delay is bugged Again? So basically it's useful against fluxes and not much else? tbh though 4s is still pretty low. ak.0 4 LYFE Large Missile Turrets: the real unicorns of DUST.
dent 308 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2619	Posted - 2014.03.24 18:14:00 - [4] - Quote We should call these suits Smurfs, because reasons. Hail Satan
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 11654	Posted - 2014.03.24 18:25:00 - [5] - Quote So when you are at zero shields, you're in armour, and you take a subsequent hit (resetting the delay) it uses the standard delay rather than the depleted delay, correct? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Smooth Assassin Stardust Incorporation IMMORTAL REGIME 1052	Posted - 2014.03.24 18:28:00 - [6] - Quote dent 308 wrote: We should call these suits Smurfs, because reasons. Caldaries are grey, the caldari heavy is huge and you want to call him a smurf? *Assassination is my thing.*
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 614	Posted - 2014.03.24 18:30:00 - [7] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: So when you are at zero shields, you're in armour, and you take a subsequent hit (resetting the delay) it uses the standard delay rather than the depleted delay, correct? That was my findings yes. This was with self inflicted damage though, so I suppose further tests could be done to make sure the bug happens on enemy fire as well.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1861	Posted - 2014.03.24 18:30:00 - [8] - Quote +1 Bones. Thanks for the research and the heads up. I support SP rollover.
Boot Booter Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 319	Posted - 2014.03.24 18:33:00 - [9] - Quote I saw a post from ccp Logibro the other day that said the Caldari depleted delay of 1 sec was a typo. It'll probably be around 6 seconds. The test you did was interesting but I think most shield tankers knew this already. It's the reason why shields seem to take longer when you get fluxed.
Scalesdini BlackWater Liquidations INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 403	Posted - 2014.03.24 18:34:00 - [10] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: I saw a post from ccp Logibro the other day that said the Caldari depleted delay of 1 sec was a typo. It'll probably be around 6 seconds. The test you did was interesting but I think most shield tankers knew this already. It's the reason why shields seem to take longer when you get fluxed. FFS, it is NOT a typo. It has been confirmed as NOT A TYPO for months now. Posts have dates attached to them for reasons.

dent 308 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2620	Posted - 2014.03.24 18:37:00 - [11] - Quote Smooth Assassin wrote: dent 308 wrote: We should call these suits Smurfs, because reasons. Caldaries are grey, the caldari heavy is huge and you want to call him a smurf? Yes. Hail Satan
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 2155	Posted - 2014.03.24 18:40:00 - [12] - Quote There is a silver lining to this. If you are in a non sentinel suit taking 2 shot of damage will help kick start your shield if you are heavily stacked with extenders. For the Federation!
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 614	Posted - 2014.03.24 18:45:00 - [13] - Quote Yes, the flip side of this is any other build can (for now) focus a bit more on regen delay and ignore depleted since its only flux, other nades and the rare "that last bullet dropped my shield" that would trigger the depleted. Caldari scout, for example can really take advantage of its super low, non depleted delay.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1345	Posted - 2014.03.24 19:00:00 - [14] - Quote dent 308 wrote: Smooth Assassin wrote: dent 308 wrote: We should call these suits Smurfs, because reasons. Caldaries are grey, the caldari heavy is huge and you want to call him a smurf? Yes. To be fair.... he didn't say "Because they are blue" or ""Because they are little".... He said "Because reasons"..... MAG ~ Raven I GÖú puppies.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 11660	Posted - 2014.03.24 19:13:00 - [15] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: So when you are at zero shields, you're in armour, and you take a subsequent hit (resetting the delay) it uses the standard delay rather than the depleted delay, correct? That was my findings yes. This was with self inflicted damage though, so I suppose further tests could be done to make sure the bug happens on enemy fire as well. With the effectively instant depleted recharge that we'll potentially get due to the tick based nature of shield regen, does that not mean that the depleted regen will instantly fire off every time the shields are completely depleted, thus giving a sliver of shield HP and preventing this from occurring? Outside of the Cal sentinel, I would view this as a positive thing for shields, intentional or not. The 1s depleted delay is going to be... interesting, though. If you wish, I can assist you recording this post-1.8 (I have a capture card) as it's worth testing out. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2824	Posted - 2014.03.24 19:18:00 - [16] - Quote The stacking penalty on Shield Extenders (% increase to depleted recharge delay) is still based on that 1 second recharge time, so at the very least we donGÇÖt have to wary about the Shield Extender stacking penalty. I expect this was not discovered before because with every other suit this bug would be beneficial. Also, with skills you will have over 400 armor. DonGÇÖt forget to fit an Armor repair in that 1 low slot. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 618	Posted - 2014.03.24 19:24:00 - [17] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Bones McGavins wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: So when you are at zero shields, you're in armour, and you take a subsequent hit (resetting the delay) it uses the standard delay rather than the depleted delay, correct? That was my findings yes. This was with self inflicted damage though, so I suppose further tests could be done to make sure the bug happens on enemy fire as well. With the effectively instant depleted recharge that we'll potentially get due to the tick based nature of shield regen, does that not mean that the depleted regen will instantly fire off every time the shields are completely depleted, thus giving a sliver of shield HP and preventing this from occurring? Outside of the Cal sentinel, I would view this as a positive thing for shields, intentional or not. The 1s depleted delay is going to be... interesting, though. If you wish, I can assist you recording this post-1.8 (I have a capture card) as it's worth testing out. Well isnt there a 1 second recharge delay for caldari sentinal? I would assume it would wait that second before firing off and any incoming fire prior to second would interrupt and cause the 4 second delay to trigger. But yes, it would be a net gain for shield users (though the best scenario would be no reset once the depleted trigger occured). We can definitely record the actual impact on the caldari sentinal post 1.8. Ill add you as a contact and hit you up in game to do it, should be pretty straight forward in FW.
Kaughst Nyain San Dirt Nap Squad. 335	Posted - 2014.03.24 19:28:00 - [18] - Quote I think this issue has been around for a while. It seems they never got around to fixing it. "He said he has a alt in STB." "Everyone has a alt in STB."
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 11663	Posted - 2014.03.24 19:29:00 - [19] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Bones McGavins wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: So when you are at zero shields, you're in armour, and you take a subsequent hit (resetting the delay) it uses the standard delay rather than the depleted delay, correct? That was my findings yes. This was with self inflicted damage though, so I suppose further tests could be done to make sure the bug happens on enemy fire as well. With the effectively instant depleted recharge that we'll potentially get due to the tick based nature of shield regen, does that not mean that the depleted regen will instantly fire off every time the shields are completely depleted, thus giving a sliver of shield HP and preventing this from occurring? Outside of the Cal sentinel, I would view this as a positive thing for shields, intentional or not. The 1s depleted delay is going to be... interesting, though. If you wish, I can assist you recording this post-1.8 (I have a capture card) as it's worth testing out. Well isnt there a 1 second recharge delay for caldari sentinal? I would assume it would wait that second before firing off and any incoming fire prior to second would interrupt and cause the 4 second delay to trigger. But yes, it would be a net gain for shield users (though the best scenario would be no reset once the depleted trigger occured). We can definitely record the actual impact on the caldari sentinal post 1.8. Ill add you as a contact and hit you up in game to do it, should be pretty straight forward in FW. Some time ago in beta (I'm unsure which build. Maybe Chromosome? Maybe before? Regulators didn't seem to have stacking penalties then) I stacked regulators on a suit and it instantly started regenerating again on shield depletion. I'm fairly certain it didn't go to '0' shield delay, so I do wonder, as I doubt they've changed the core mechanics since then. It's worth testing, in any case. Though I see it as a positive for other suits, I wonder if an exception should be made for the CS if the delay is indeed bugged. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
bamboo x Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 302	Posted - 2014.03.24 19:32:00 - [20] - Quote Are you saying that if the shot you take which depletes your shields, if that shot cuts into your armor as well as your shields, the shield depleted delay no longer applies? LOL and people were talking about in the thread I made about Regulators that they're good at proto level... Or are you just talking about taking that one extra hit? If so I don't think it will be "extremely rare" especially if they are doing what they should be doing in a Caldari Sentinel suit: Forge Gunning. In a suit like that you should be ducking behind cover when you take fire. Wait, so I don't think there's a module that decreases the default shield recharge delay... And it's 4 seconds on a Cal Sentinel... Yeah that does suck. All I need now is to pick a sidearm. Then you all die.

Scalesdini BlackWater Liquidations INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 408	Posted - 2014.03.24 19:40:00 - [21] - Quote bamboo x wrote: Are you saying that if the shot you take which depletes your shields, if that shot cuts into your armor as well as your shields, the shield depleted delay no longer applies? LOL and people were talking about in the thread I made about Regulators that they're good at proto level... Or are you just talking about taking that one extra hit? If so I don't think it will be "extremely rare" especially if they are doing what they should be doing in a Caldari Sentinel suit: Forge Gunning. In a suit like that you should be ducking behind cover when you take fire. Wait, so I don't think there's a module that decreases the default shield recharge delay... And it's 4 seconds on a Cal Sentinel... Yeah that does suck. Shield regulators decrease both normal delay and depleted delay. Shield extenders increase depleted delay only.
bamboo x Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 304	Posted - 2014.03.24 23:52:00 - [22] - Quote Scalesdini wrote: Shield regulators decrease both normal delay and depleted delay. Shield extenders increase depleted delay only. In that case they are REALLY going to need that one proto shield regulator. Glad I'm not skilling into it. I laugh at your CR, SMG, Magsec, HMG, lasers & plasma
Tectonic Fusion 1296	Posted - 2014.03.25 00:00:00 - [23] - Quote Remove the stacking penalty for armor. Armor has low speed but high EHP, and shields has high speed for low EHP. Solo Player Squad status: Locked
Heinrich Jagerblitzen Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1644	Posted - 2014.03.25 02:18:00 - [24] - Quote Interesting findings, thanks! I'll be sure to pass this on to CCP to investigate. o7
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y 28	Posted - 2014.03.25 11:08:00 - [25] - Quote dent 308 wrote: We should call these suits Smurfs, because reasons. "Roid Rage Smurfs" The scouts we can just call smurfs c: G.L.O.R.Y solider, Master of the Heavy
QRT30 Rave Technologies Inc. C0VEN 24	Posted - 2014.04.09 05:50:00 - [26] - Quote bump, CCP fix it asap QRT30 - logi QRT300 - heavy/commando Rave Technologies Inc.


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