Varoth Drac
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
28
   |
Posted - 2014.03.24 13:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
I was inspired by the last thread to try the Gallente scout. Now, I have been using the Minmatar scout suit since release with a focus on shotguns, though I also use the combat rifle a fair amount, also nova knives for fun and I always pure shield tank it.
So with the proto Gal scout I made a fit similar to King Babar's original fit with 3 enhanced plates, a repper and a proto combat rifle (aurum as I don't have the skills, only proto shotguns and knives). In the third game I went 38-1, which is possibly my best ever score. It was a game similar to the video posted. Mostly against lower skill opponents in poor gear, though it was a skirmish and was reasonably close.
I also applaud King Babar for taking up the challenge and making the video.
So the question is, are scouts fine as they are? Meaning the months of vocal concerns from the scout community have just been QQ and 1.8 will see scout suits unfairly buffed into OP-land?
It's quite a complex issue. Firstly you have to understand that scout suits are currently in a better place right now than they have been throughout uprising. There are many issues that people have rightly complained about to do with scouts that seem to have been sorted out. Off the top of my head I can think of
- scanning changed so there is a point in having a low profile
- shotgun and nova knife hit detection fixed
- objective and instillation "perfect scan" removed
- aim assist slightly reduced
So in these cases the complaining was justified. Additionally a lot of complaints have been to do with issues that are not relevant to King's experience with scouts, for example the high skill requirement to avoid scanners (which is essential to there being a point in a scout suit), or the fact that the minmatar or low sp gallente scouts have a uselessly low passive scan range even after the supposed "buff". These are also valid complaints.
As for overall balance as the game stands now in 1.7 I can see that King has wisely conceded that he cannot comment on minmatar scout balance as he has not tried it, though if we were to conclude that scout QQ in general was unjustified it would also cast doubt on so-called problems with the min scout.
So just looking at Gallente. I think people are right that the test was not very fair. Though King only played one game it did turn out to be a stomp against poor players in bad gear. This means it is difficult to draw conclusions from either King's game or my 38-1 skirmish. In both situations you would expect to do well with any other suit. I will say however that a scout suit is particularly good at stomping noobs. The speed, scan and stealth combo is excellent for picking off lone, spread-out players. Also the alpha strike you get from stalking prey with a scout is particularly effective against lower hp enemies, both situations found against unorganized randoms. So in these situations you would in fact expect to do better in a scout than a medium suit, but the ability to stomp noobs is hardly a good indication of how good a suit is. Another thing to note is that whilst King is new to the suit he has experience playing as a stealth assault, which is very similar to the Gallente scout, especially when fit with armor instead of speed mods.
I think that Gallente scouts work well when armor tanked and played like an assault with a rifle or when hunting unorganized players. Trouble is when playing games against a balanced team you find that the ability to use speed and stealth does not quite make up for the benefits you would get with a medium suit. Also if you heavily armor tank you may as well use a medium suit. Perhaps it is hard to tell exactly what the problems are. I certainly don't have enough experience to know for sure, and to be honest there hasn't been much QQ in this area. I do believe the opinion of my fellow scouts though, this is because I know they are right about minmatar scouts, a suit that I have played with for over a year, using a multitude of fits, not just ones the community came up with (before you say anything armor tanking it is not very effective).
This biggest change coming in 1.8 is the addition of one extra module slot for scouts. Cloaks are a separate issue and since they have a specific purpose I don't think they really affect balance very much. So will the extra slot push scouts into being OP? I personally don't think so. At most the issue is unclear and impossible to say.
As for answering King's original question about QQ I hope I have explained why I think it has been mostly justified. |
Varoth Drac
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
30
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 15:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
Thank you King Barbar, to clarify a couple of points:
What I meant by "scanning change" wasn't a change to the active scanner itself but the change to shared team vision brought in in 1.4. Not sure what you would call it but you will remember that before 1.4 if anyone in your team had line of sight to an enemy they would appear on your radar. This meant that nobody used scanners as most of the time enemies were already visible on the radar. This situation meant there was no point in having a low scan profile since nobody used active or passive scanners. Also as soon as you were spotted by one person your position was given away to the whole enemy team. Thankfully this was removed, necessitating the use of scanning resulting is their widespread adoption post 1.4.
"Perfect objective scanning" is referring to the situation we had (I can't remember through which patches, think it was only fixed with 1.7) where enemy installations and objectives had a scan precision of 0 and broadcast your position to the entire enemy team. This obviously made stealth/behind enemy lines game-play rather difficult.
I very much doubt scout suits will still be underpowered come 1.8, hopefully they will just be balanced. I think the bigger issue here is whether low slot modules other than armor are worth it, regardless of what suit you use. I will continue to try to make them work. I love that you use dampeners on an assault suit.
I think all too often people are too quick to declare something UP or useless without taking the time to think about how to use it properly and I hope to see more people like you who try to make things work. In the case of scouts though, there have been a number of problems. |