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Burntface man112 Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 131	Posted - 2014.03.20 20:31:00 - [1] - Quote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls7hOEdNgXE&feature=youtu.be HERE IS PROOF THAT TANKERS HAVE BEEN LYING ABOUT SWARMS. YOU NEED TO GANG UP MY ASS
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8495	Posted - 2014.03.20 20:33:00 - [2] - Quote Burntface man112 wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls7hOEdNgXE&feature=youtu.be HERE IS PROOF THAT TANKERS HAVE BEEN LYING ABOUT SWARMS. YOU NEED TO GANG UP MY ASS Yeah we know swarms do not apply all of their damage. This was something I was only alerted to in the last few weeks. I hope they fix this. EDIT- I dont want to "Gang" up anyone's ass. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2229	Posted - 2014.03.20 20:42:00 - [3] - Quote So what did we lie about, exactly? Yep, swarms are still broken. Now the only way for you to compensate for that is to... gang up. EDIT: Yeah, I'm not too into that either, True. ak.0 4 LYFE Large Missile Turrets: the real unicorns of DUST.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8496	Posted - 2014.03.20 20:43:00 - [4] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: So what did we lie about, exactly? Yep, swarms are still broken. Now the only way for you to compensate for that is to... gang up. No you don't mean......using....gulp...numerous tankers to saturate the field with HAV? "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
Hakyou Brutor G0DS AM0NG MEN D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 122	Posted - 2014.03.20 20:46:00 - [5] - Quote Lying? I'm fairly sure the entire community was saying swarms were bad. My 1.8 fit
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 186	Posted - 2014.03.20 20:47:00 - [6] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: So what did we lie about, exactly? Yep, swarms are still broken. Now the only way for you to compensate for that is to... gang up. EDIT: Yeah, I'm not too into that either, True. I think what he is trying to say is it take multiple swarm launcher to take out a single target but now we know its not true. However this guy is really out of like and I would not want to gang up either
Beld Errmon Nyain San 1457	Posted - 2014.03.20 20:47:00 - [7] - Quote if a bear ****s in the woods blame the tankers.
Crow Splat DUST University Ivy League 148	Posted - 2014.03.20 20:48:00 - [8] - Quote So OP is mad because he has to work as a team in a game that places you on a team by default and forces you to fight an opposing team in every game mode? Did I get that right? Why is the concept of running in a group so offensive?
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1016	Posted - 2014.03.20 20:51:00 - [9] - Quote Crow Splat wrote: So OP is mad because he has to work as a team in a game that places you on a team by default and forces you to fight an opposing team in every game mode? Did I get that right? Why is the concept of running in a group so offensive? Its not that it is offensive, its that if one side has to gang up to defeat one person. That is, by definition, unbalanced. He is also saying that even if you do gang up on a tank with swarm launchers it still doesn't work. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
CLONE117 True Pros Forever 725	Posted - 2014.03.20 20:59:00 - [10] - Quote hmmmm if me and another hmg heavy was able to take down that hardened incubus that one dom i had.. HOW DAFUQ ARE SWARMS UNABLE TO DO THE SAME DAMN THING!!!!!!!!! oh thats right... the dropship was flying close to us while we were shooting it with our hmgs... drained its hp pretty fast.. and plus.. the dropships hardeners were active when it was getting hit by swarms. no wonder it didnt die too a few volleys of missiles. since a swarm does very little when their is a 40% resist there. un hardened im expecting that dropship to go down easily. unless the pilot runs away at the slightest sign of damage.

Christiphoros von Poe Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 219	Posted - 2014.03.20 21:07:00 - [11] - Quote I wonder if CCP will "stealth" fix this problem.. (1) "Exile" Assault Rifle reserved for: Fire of Prometheus Uprising->Replication->E3->Codex->Chromosome->Uprising->???
Supernus Gigas sNk Syndicate 519	Posted - 2014.03.20 21:14:00 - [12] - Quote Yeah, because clearly every single tanker is in cahoots trying to keep this a secret. Yep, that's it, we're all lying about Swarm Launchers. Since you managed to figure out this huge secret that only the great tankers of Dust 514 know of, the Illuminatanki is going to have to put you on the assassination list. *FIRE UP THE HEAVY MEAT GRINDER! WE'RE HAVIN' CLONE BURGERS TONIGHT, BOYS!*
Duke Noobiam Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 35	Posted - 2014.03.20 21:19:00 - [13] - Quote Crow Splat wrote: So OP is mad because tankers suggested you work as a team in a game that places you on a team by default and forces you to fight an opposing team in every game mode? Did I get that right? Why is the concept of running in a group so offensive? You guys missed the point that even ganging up does not work if you are using swarms. The shields will regenerate faster than 3 proto swarm launchers can damage them. Just watch the video, it's all in there. When the red river runs, take the dirt road.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 901	Posted - 2014.03.20 21:26:00 - [14] - Quote By comparison, here are swarms vs militia tanks as a control group. Best PVE idea I've seen. Fixed link.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8507	Posted - 2014.03.20 21:29:00 - [15] - Quote Duke Noobiam wrote: Crow Splat wrote: So OP is mad because tankers suggested you work as a team in a game that places you on a team by default and forces you to fight an opposing team in every game mode? Did I get that right? Why is the concept of running in a group so offensive? You guys missed the point that even ganging up does not work if you are using swarms. The shields will regenerate faster than 3 proto swarm launchers can damage them. Just watch the video, it's all in there. You do realise realistically shield would have no regen delay and a slow constant passive rep. Thats the purpose of Passive tanked ships in EVE as I understood them when I use my Drake and Caracal to grind out PVE missions. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
noobsniper the 2nd OLDSPICE. Top Men. 295	Posted - 2014.03.20 21:32:00 - [16] - Quote Lolswarms this isn't new ppl we knew this awhile ago just call me communist space king noob MAG vet raven ftw Pre 1.8 scout don't throw me in with that rift raft
CLONE117 True Pros Forever 727	Posted - 2014.03.20 21:46:00 - [17] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: By comparison, here are swarms vs militia tanks as a control group. thats where av nades would come in. you use them for supplemental damage to take out the shields the 3rd will take out the last of the somas shields and should hit for around 500 armor damage. as the av nades do bonus damage to armor. damage per volley is however higher than av nade damage. thus using the nades first increases total over all damage to the tank. allowing u to kill with less over all ammo used. and faster. im sure a reload is bound to be required with mlt and std level swarms though. but that only ups the skill needed to take one down solo. with adv swarms it can be done with 3 std av nades and one clip. all on a cheap default mlt fit. if tank has hardeners more than likely the attempt will fail if he activates them and runs off. though most tanks ive killed this way either try to run away and fail. or the driver will jump out. thats when i switch to smg and kill him that way.
knight of 6 SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1611	Posted - 2014.03.20 22:03:00 - [18] - Quote Burntface man112 wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls7hOEdNgXE&feature=youtu.be HERE IS PROOF THAT TANKERS HAVE BEEN LYING ABOUT SWARMS. YOU NEED TO GANG UP MY ASS this is news to tankers as much as it is to AV specialists. we weren't lying at any point though you do need to gang up on tanks "cause swarms are busted as ***" is apparently the bit that we were missing. tankers are gamers too, they want broken mechanics exactly as much as you do (not at all). I have a blaster gunnlogi that has been collecting dust because tanking isn't fun anymore. balance is fun imbalance isn't. GÇ£Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I am dampened.GÇ¥* Ko6 scout,
Ld Collins Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 120	Posted - 2014.03.20 22:08:00 - [19] - Quote Burntface man112 wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls7hOEdNgXE&feature=youtu.be HERE IS PROOF THAT TANKERS HAVE BEEN LYING ABOUT SWARMS. YOU NEED TO GANG UP MY ASS I dont have the equipment to record proof but I can agree that swarms on dropships are broken as far as tanks go double hardeners are necessary gunnlogis can fit 3x damage mods and proto large railguns and it is extremely op. If you know there is a double hardened tank on the field why are you still trying to use swarms when there are other forms of Av. You may say its not fair that you should have to spec into other fits but it's what I have to do. I have proto rails missiles and blasters and all of my vehicle upgrades are maxed. I know that I will have to adapt to changes on the field. With 1.8 releasing there should be no more excuses every class will have a heavy and every class will have a commando. Proto breach forge gun does more damage than a proto large railgun as for swarms and with a commando you will have the ability to apply damage at a faster rate against tanks it is very beneficial. Spec into lavs and commando get your grenades explosives and light av weapons ready. Yesterday I went 15 and 5 with proximity explosives thats right proximity explosives. Me and another squad member just put our explosives in areas of high traffic and watched the fireworks. To me this video shows that dropships are broken when it comes to using swarms but tanks I really can't say the are entirely useless most people are double hardening tanks because of 2 things assault dropships are op and other tanks are on the field. My opinion may seem bias to you but I am an Aver myself I have demolition lvl 5 and advanced swarms I've not yet leveled up my grenades. I have been pretty successful on my own I'm pretty convinced by this video that the only real issue here is dropships along with yourself or other players not expanding their arsenal.
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core 602	Posted - 2014.03.20 23:10:00 - [20] - Quote looks like CCP wont have to balance much(if they choose right) since it's just hardeners that are the problem. it's either: NERF hardeners or Buff all AV A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. GalHeav E-vo

Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1315	Posted - 2014.03.21 00:07:00 - [21] - Quote In the OP's defense, Takahiro Kashuken (or however you spell it, I still call him by his closed beta name: English Snake) and that other tanker who's always backing him up in his threads (can never recall his name....) have been doing just that since 1.7 hit. Also saying that swarms are perfect as are and should be as bad as they are because, and I'm paraphrasing, "1 it's a light AV weapon, and 2 vehicles have shield resistances" MAG ~ Raven
Yeeeuuuupppp 164	Posted - 2014.03.21 01:02:00 - [22] - Quote Solution: use forge gun. ** swarms, they're . I want my cookie for 3 shotting that soma with my DAU assail forge gun CCP Saberwing: " War elephants for 1.9**" I really want the templar set Feel the wrath of my troll
Crow Splat DUST University Ivy League 151	Posted - 2014.03.21 03:36:00 - [23] - Quote Ok so we're now onto saying that everything should be "balanced" so that one guy with a swarm launcher should be able to take out any vehicle alone. So you're saying that a maybe 200k isk fit should be able to destroy an easy 500k isk vehicle every time.. But what you're really saying if eff you guys that fly dropships. You guys should have to pay more to be less effective then me because I don't like getting beat by someone who is willing to risk more isk than I am. Yeah... Right....
Chesyre Armundsen Thanes Of Dust 467	Posted - 2014.03.21 03:42:00 - [24] - Quote +1 to the OP for sharing the vid. +1 to the Judge for pie charts and math Mihi gravato Deus - "Let God lay the burden on me!" The Space Hippie
Michael-J-Fox Richards Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 84	Posted - 2014.03.21 04:59:00 - [25] - Quote the TC is **** up in a very big way using caps to order people to gang his ass, i dont feel like enough people felt the same way which is equally **** up, unless the TC is a girl then its fine http://i40.tinypic.com/33w8wtd.jpg http://i60.tinypic.com/29w7g29.jpg Assault Dropship Pilot
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1593	Posted - 2014.03.21 05:00:00 - [26] - Quote Stop putting words in tankers mouths and baiting. Is that you Atiim? FOTM mil tankers are the problem and tankers agree AV is not balanced to tanks. "Stay stealthy scouts." GÇô Ron Burgundy
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 188	Posted - 2014.03.21 05:36:00 - [27] - Quote Crow Splat wrote: Ok so we're now onto saying that everything should be "balanced" so that one guy with a swarm launcher should be able to take out any vehicle alone. So you're saying that a maybe 200k isk fit should be able to destroy an easy 500k isk vehicle every time.. But what you're really saying if eff you guys that fly dropships. You guys should have to pay more to be less effective then me because I don't like getting beat by someone who is willing to risk more isk than I am. Yeah... Right.... on the contrary AV suits are now more expensive or equally expensive to Tanks. As to Assault dropships its in my humble opinion that is should get a price reduction but the only real reason for the expenses being so high is that if handle properly it can be a tide changer but current rail tanks prevent the dropship to reach full potential instead of being a counter. SO risk vs reward does not add up currently when you place it into perspective of isk more importantly though it more than just ISK when it comes to risk vs reward you need to account the risk of death which is ultimately the factor whether you lose isk or not. So the 300 ISK tank is less likely to die and be destroyed than a 300 isk prototype maxed out suit for anti vehicle control. SO with a more death risk for AV the more likely your going to lose more isk than the tanker given the multitude of death possibilities which tankers are not affected by (such as infantry battles).
SPESHULz The Southern Legion 59	Posted - 2014.03.21 05:39:00 - [28] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: if a bear **s in the woods blame the tankers. If a bear *** in the popes bathroom still blame tankers for being bad forests And person accusing 1000 tankers of lieing to them that video was mostly about how they do even less damage to ds and by spreading this video i am sure the last 20 people who didnt know will skills into ads. Im not saying they will be any good however because it does require skill and isk to get kills. Blood flows. Death comes. War rages Maths is OP. Those numbers kill you RedLineLove
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2222	Posted - 2014.03.21 05:39:00 - [29] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Crow Splat wrote: So OP is mad because he has to work as a team in a game that places you on a team by default and forces you to fight an opposing team in every game mode? Did I get that right? Why is the concept of running in a group so offensive? Its not that it is offensive, its that if one side has to gang up to defeat one person. That is, by definition, unbalanced. He is also saying that even if you do gang up on a tank with swarm launchers it still doesn't work. it made more sense when a tank that wouldn't instapop cost 1.2 mil isk and like nobody was good enough to make it worth it Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 188	Posted - 2014.03.21 05:40:00 - [30] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: Crow Splat wrote: So OP is mad because he has to work as a team in a game that places you on a team by default and forces you to fight an opposing team in every game mode? Did I get that right? Why is the concept of running in a group so offensive? Its not that it is offensive, its that if one side has to gang up to defeat one person. That is, by definition, unbalanced. He is also saying that even if you do gang up on a tank with swarm launchers it still doesn't work. it made more sense when a tank that wouldn't instapop cost 1.2 mil isk and like nobody was good enough to make it worth it But its not like that anymore so your point is void

Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 188	Posted - 2014.03.21 05:42:00 - [31] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: Stop putting words in tankers mouths and baiting. Is that you Atiim? FOTM mil tankers are the problem and tankers agree AV is not balanced to tanks. I don't know about you but I have seen many posts which has the title- AV vs Vehicle is balanced and here is way for these reasons. The most common reason was it should take more than one person to destroy tanks
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2783	Posted - 2014.03.21 05:44:00 - [32] - Quote Yeah, me and 2 buddies were using mix if Proto AV(FG, swarms and AV) and we couldn't kill a few tankers that were kept camping a CRU. One of them was Dust Fiend iirc. It was pretty awful, i was hitting Sicas/Gunnys with no shields and 1500 armor buff they just wouldn't explode from my Proto swarms. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2222	Posted - 2014.03.21 05:50:00 - [33] - Quote Crow Splat wrote: Ok so we're now onto saying that everything should be "balanced" so that one guy with a swarm launcher should be able to take out any vehicle alone. So you're saying that a maybe 200k isk fit should be able to destroy an easy 500k isk vehicle every time.. But what you're really saying if eff you guys that fly dropships. You guys should have to pay more to be less effective then me because I don't like getting beat by someone who is willing to risk more isk than I am. Yeah... Right.... a militia tank, yeah. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2222	Posted - 2014.03.21 05:51:00 - [34] - Quote Minor Treat wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: Crow Splat wrote: So OP is mad because he has to work as a team in a game that places you on a team by default and forces you to fight an opposing team in every game mode? Did I get that right? Why is the concept of running in a group so offensive? Its not that it is offensive, its that if one side has to gang up to defeat one person. That is, by definition, unbalanced. He is also saying that even if you do gang up on a tank with swarm launchers it still doesn't work. it made more sense when a tank that wouldn't instapop cost 1.2 mil isk and like nobody was good enough to make it worth it But its not like that anymore so your point is void what point? you just agreed with me and attempted to fit an awkward troll in there, stupid ****. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
SPESHULz The Southern Legion 59	Posted - 2014.03.21 08:08:00 - [35] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: it made more sense when a tank that wouldn't instapop cost 1.2 mil isk and like nobody was good enough to make it worth it lol the falchions were just slightly better red line rails when rails were useless and i dont remember anybody bothering with the armor ones or what the lame bonus was since you would lose 1.1 mil to swarms/turrets and infantry that werent rendering until it was too late. Blood flows. Death comes. War rages Maths is OP. Those numbers kill you RedLineLove
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC 488	Posted - 2014.03.21 09:13:00 - [36] - Quote Yeah we all know tankers are lying about swarms being useful because they want to remain indestructable. Thank god patch 1.8 doesn't address it at all and instead we get useless weapons and suits we should already have while eve gets more customization because it's actually balanced lol. Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank! *TURTLE POWER!!!*
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 788	Posted - 2014.03.21 09:18:00 - [37] - Quote Crow Splat wrote: So OP is mad because tankers suggested you work as a team in a game that places you on a team by default and forces you to fight an opposing team in every game mode? Did I get that right? Why is the concept of running in a group so offensive? I have asked the same question back in 1.6 because IF HAV pilots where running with infantry Av never seemed a problem and those Pilots who did run with infantry were doing fine in general...but for pilots running with infantry to cover them was never an option because they had a tank and it was expensive etc. Funny how Pilots now asks to use teamwork...from AV...and even funnier as they know they still can beat AV with another HAV or two running with them...
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 2528	Posted - 2014.03.21 09:23:00 - [38] - Quote Not using swarms cannot be the answer. Its just mindblowing that tankers are justifying to have literally godmode from all forms of AV. Except for 15 proxy mines, forgeguns and jihad LAV's. AV is supposed to be a hard counter against vehicles. If swarms are not broken then most certainly the vehicles are. I say dumb down the resistance bonus from shield hardeners to 30% and armor hardeners down to 20%. And on top only 1 hardener fitted at a time on vehicles. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8581	Posted - 2014.03.21 09:34:00 - [39] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Not using swarms cannot be the answer. Its just mindblowing that tankers are justifying to have literally godmode from all forms of AV. Except for 15 proxy mines, forgeguns and jihad LAV's. AV is supposed to be a hard counter against vehicles. If swarms are not broken then most certainly the vehicles are. I say dumb down the resistance bonus from shield hardeners to 30% and armor hardeners down to 20%. And on top only 1 hardener fitted at a time on vehicles. Quote in this thread where a Tanker said that. Please by all means do, either they are out of their damn minds of blatantly biased in which case their opinion cannot really hold any value.....similar to yours.....you seem rather biased yourself. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC 489	Posted - 2014.03.21 09:40:00 - [40] - Quote We should just make it so all av can solo vehicles. Then all vehicles can solo infantry and all infantry can solo avers. That sounds fair. You should have to pay more for vehicles because your invincible to infantry. Tanks are pay to win. Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank! *TURTLE POWER!!!*

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8585	Posted - 2014.03.21 10:02:00 - [41] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: We should just make it so all av can solo vehicles. Then all vehicles can solo infantry and all infantry can solo avers. That sounds fair. You should have to pay more for vehicles because your invincible to infantry. Tanks are pay to win. No one disputes that HAV need to be soloable.....the ease at which they are soloable balanced against costs of vehicles, balanced against the costs of AV, balanced against the viability of this player style as well as the viability under any proposed changes of Dropships, LAV, in future MAV and MTAC. Simply looking for a quick fix solution now doesn't solve anything and only puts off the thought and discussion we need to have about this topic until later. And more importantly in this regard both sides need to be willing to give ground. Personally I am interested in altering the functionality of the infamous hardener module rather than severely nerfing the module, or buffing AV. Between 5-10% Av buffs being possibly quick fixes (preferably 5% in this quick fix case with progressive testing) Increase in fitting costs of Hardeners Decrease of 10% to Shield, down to 50% resistance, and down 5% on armour hardeners to 35%, Another thought is perhaps implementing a timer between when one hardener can be activated and the next made active, perhaps half the cool down of the intial hardeners allowing players to make use of dual one but no allowing them to follow one after the other, thus reinforcing waves of opportunity. These amongst other things should be discussed by long term HAVers and AVers , civilly, until a conclusion has been reached and a formal, well presented series of community suggestions can be presented to the CPM1 or CCP directly. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
steadyhand amarr TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 2660	Posted - 2014.03.21 11:12:00 - [42] - Quote The argument that you need to work with more than 1 player to kill a tank is bad desgin as we have limited team sizes so all the other side has to do is field more tanks till the other side runs out of players. A solo AV should be able kill a tank of the same teir what needs to be balanced then is the effort and isk costs required "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2223	Posted - 2014.03.21 12:15:00 - [43] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: We should just make it so all av can solo vehicles. Then all vehicles can solo infantry and all infantry can solo avers. That sounds fair. You should have to pay more for vehicles because your invincible to infantry. Tanks are pay to win. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1319	Posted - 2014.03.21 12:41:00 - [44] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: We should just make it so all av can solo vehicles. Then all vehicles can solo infantry and all infantry can solo avers. That sounds fair. You should have to pay more for vehicles because your invincible to infantry. Tanks are pay to win. No one disputes that HAV need to be soloable.....the ease at which they are soloable balanced against costs of vehicles, balanced against the costs of AV, balanced against the viability of this player style as well as the viability under any proposed changes of Dropships, LAV, in future MAV and MTAC. Simply looking for a quick fix solution now doesn't solve anything and only puts off the thought and discussion we need to have about this topic until later. And more importantly in this regard both sides need to be willing to give ground. Personally I am interested in altering the functionality of the infamous hardener module rather than severely nerfing the module, or buffing AV. Between 5-10% Av buffs being possibly quick fixes (preferably 5% in this quick fix case with progressive testing) Increase in fitting costs of Hardeners Decrease of 10% to Shield, down to 50% resistance, and down 5% on armour hardeners to 35%, Another thought is perhaps implementing a timer between when one hardener can be activated and the next made active, perhaps half the cool down of the intial hardeners allowing players to make use of dual one but no allowing them to follow one after the other, thus reinforcing waves of opportunity. These amongst other things should be discussed by long term HAVers and AVers , civilly, until a conclusion has been reached and a formal, well presented series of community suggestions can be presented to the CPM1 or CCP directly. I only dispute your first point. Taki and Spkr are two who immediately come to mind who dispute the fact that vehicles should be soloable. Edit: ALso, an Idea just came to me.... perhaps to prevent permahardened tanks, and to prevent narrowing fitting options for tanks, let tankers fit multiple hardners. But make all fitted hardners activate as one module and apply a stacking penalty to the damage reduction. Meaning you can only have one hardner on, but it has the strength of however many you have fitted minus the stacking penalties applied for each additional module. This would stop back-to-back hardening and promote the "waves of oppertunity" idea that was sort of the point of 1.7 vehicle changes. MAG ~ Raven I GÖú puppies.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5979	Posted - 2014.03.21 13:48:00 - [45] - Quote Crow Splat wrote: Ok so we're now onto saying that everything should be "balanced" so that one guy with a swarm launcher should be able to take out any vehicle alone. So you're saying that a maybe 200k isk fit should be able to destroy an easy 500k isk vehicle every time.. But what you're really saying if eff you guys that fly dropships. You guys should have to pay more to be less effective then me because I don't like getting beat by someone who is willing to risk more isk than I am. Yeah... Right.... That statement is a fallacy. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Crow Splat DUST University Ivy League 152	Posted - 2014.03.21 14:08:00 - [46] - Quote Atiim wrote: Crow Splat wrote: Ok so we're now onto saying that everything should be "balanced" so that one guy with a swarm launcher should be able to take out any vehicle alone. So you're saying that a maybe 200k isk fit should be able to destroy an easy 500k isk vehicle every time.. But what you're really saying if eff you guys that fly dropships. You guys should have to pay more to be less effective then me because I don't like getting beat by someone who is willing to risk more isk than I am. Yeah... Right.... That statement is a fallacy. That's a terrible example.. So you let somebody get close enough to you to use a high alpha damage weapon with a range of pissing distance. Good job. Maybe that guy was good, maybe you were being an idiot. I don't know because I wasn't there. But I can tell you that he doesn't have the same odds of killing you no matter what the circumstances of the engagement are. You would propose that an individual who spends half as much isk as another should be evenly matched regardless of circumstance. That's just remedial thinking. That said, there is something off about av and until it gets fixed, ganging up is the only solution.
Humble Seeker Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 115	Posted - 2014.03.21 14:53:00 - [47] - Quote Bump. Nothing I can say that Judge didn't. "Surround yourself with the faithful, Stand together, for there is no strength like it under the heavens."
TechMechMeds SWAMPERIUM 2880	Posted - 2014.03.21 14:58:00 - [48] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Burntface man112 wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls7hOEdNgXE&feature=youtu.be HERE IS PROOF THAT TANKERS HAVE BEEN LYING ABOUT SWARMS. YOU NEED TO GANG UP MY ASS Yeah we know swarms do not apply all of their damage. This was something I was only alerted to in the last few weeks. I hope they fix this. EDIT- I dont want to "Gang" up anyone's ass. Lol on that edit. And op, tanks are the most up evar, gif dem buffs and dat. 50% speed increase 50% turret damage buff but only on tanks Ability for tanks to fly AND teleport And lastly, blaster turrets should shoot ob rounds That should be fine, then we can think about further buffs in the future. Ps. Nerf swarms, that 150 metre range. Level 2 forum warrior. Dust on the ps4 asap please I'll behave
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5979	Posted - 2014.03.21 17:02:00 - [49] - Quote Crow Splat wrote: That's a terrible example.. So you let somebody get close enough to you to use a high alpha damage weapon with a range of pissing distance. Good job. Maybe that guy was good, maybe you were being an idiot. I don't know because I wasn't there. So apparently a lone Forge Gunner shouldn't be able to kill vehicles either? Crow Splat wrote: But I can tell you that he doesn't have the same odds of killing you no matter what the circumstances of the engagement are. You would propose that an individual who spends half as much isk as another should be evenly matched regardless of circumstance. That's just remedial thinking. That said, there is something off about av and until it gets fixed, ganging up is the only solution. On a 1:1 ratio, yes. If there is any gear that makes 1v1 engagements completely impossible, then why use anything other than said gear? That's terrible game design. I supposed you agree with this then? Atiim wrote: Why is this possible? My logi build costs 12 million SP and 254k ISk to run, and he spent at most 50k SP and 610 ISK. I'm spending about 200x more ISK and 240,000x more SP than him, so there's no way he should be able to solo me. These Shotguns need to be nerfed. Someone who didn't even spend half of the ISK or SP that I spent should not be able to solo me. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Derpty Derp It's All Gone Derp 175	Posted - 2014.03.21 17:11:00 - [50] - Quote knight of 6 wrote: [quote=Burntface man112] tankers are gamers too, they want broken mechanics exactly as much as you do (not at all). I have a blaster gunnlogi that has been collecting dust because tanking isn't fun anymore. balance is fun imbalance isn't. You're assuming everyone finds the same things fun... A lot of tankers just want to be able to easily farm noobs because it's fun to feel like they're better than everyone else... Only some of us like a challenge.



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