Stop putting words in tankers mouths and baiting. Is that you Atiim?

FOTM mil tankers are the problem and tankers agree AV is not balanced to tanks.

Ok so we're now onto saying that everything should be "balanced" so that one guy with a swarm launcher should be able to take out any vehicle alone.

So you're saying that a maybe 200k isk fit should be able to destroy an easy 500k isk vehicle every time.. But what you're really saying if eff you guys that fly dropships. You guys should have to pay more to be less effective then me because I don't like getting beat by someone who is willing to risk more isk than I am.

Yeah... Right....

But its not like that anymore so your point is void

it made more sense when a tank that wouldn't instapop cost 1.2 mil isk and like nobody was good enough to make it worth it

So OP is mad because tankers suggested you work as a team in a game that places you on a team by default and forces you to fight an opposing team in every game mode? Did I get that right?

Why is the concept of running in a group so offensive?

Not using swarms cannot be the answer. Its just mindblowing that tankers are justifying to have literally godmode from all forms of AV. Except for 15 proxy mines, forgeguns and jihad LAV's. AV is supposed to be a hard counter against vehicles. If swarms are not broken then most certainly the vehicles are. I say dumb down the resistance bonus from shield hardeners to 30% and armor hardeners down to 20%. And on top only 1 hardener fitted at a time on vehicles.

We should just make it so all av can solo vehicles.
Then all vehicles can solo infantry and all infantry can solo avers.
That sounds fair. You should have to pay more for vehicles because your invincible to infantry. Tanks are pay to win.

We should just make it so all av can solo vehicles.
Then all vehicles can solo infantry and all infantry can solo avers.
That sounds fair. You should have to pay more for vehicles because your invincible to infantry. Tanks are pay to win.

No one disputes that HAV need to be soloable.....the ease at which they are soloable balanced against costs of vehicles, balanced against the costs of AV, balanced against the viability of this player style as well as the viability under any proposed changes of Dropships, LAV, in future MAV and MTAC.

Simply looking for a quick fix solution now doesn't solve anything and only puts off the thought and discussion we need to have about this topic until later.

And more importantly in this regard both sides need to be willing to give ground.

Personally I am interested in altering the functionality of the infamous hardener module rather than severely nerfing the module, or buffing AV.

Between 5-10% Av buffs being possibly quick fixes (preferably 5% in this quick fix case with progressive testing)

Increase in fitting costs of Hardeners
Decrease of 10% to Shield, down to 50% resistance, and down 5% on armour hardeners to 35%,

Another thought is perhaps implementing a timer between when one hardener can be activated and the next made active, perhaps half the cool down of the intial hardeners allowing players to make use of dual one but no allowing them to follow one after the other, thus reinforcing waves of opportunity.

These amongst other things should be discussed by long term HAVers and AVers , civilly, until a conclusion has been reached and a formal, well presented series of community suggestions can be presented to the CPM1 or CCP directly.

Ok so we're now onto saying that everything should be "balanced" so that one guy with a swarm launcher should be able to take out any vehicle alone.

So you're saying that a maybe 200k isk fit should be able to destroy an easy 500k isk vehicle every time.. But what you're really saying if eff you guys that fly dropships. You guys should have to pay more to be less effective then me because I don't like getting beat by someone who is willing to risk more isk than I am.

Yeah... Right....

Yeah we know swarms do not apply all of their damage. This was something I was only alerted to in the last few weeks.

I hope they fix this.

EDIT- I dont want to "Gang" up anyone's ass.

That's a terrible example.. So you let somebody get close enough to you to use a high alpha damage weapon with a range of pissing distance. Good job. Maybe that guy was good, maybe you were being an idiot. I don't know because I wasn't there.

But I can tell you that he doesn't have the same odds of killing you no matter what the circumstances of the engagement are.

You would propose that an individual who spends half as much isk as another should be evenly matched regardless of circumstance. That's just remedial thinking.

That said, there is something off about av and until it gets fixed, ganging up is the only solution.

Why is this possible? My logi build costs 12 million SP and 254k ISk to run, and he spent at most 50k SP and 610 ISK. I'm spending about 200x more ISK and 240,000x more SP than him, so there's no way he should be able to solo me.

These Shotguns need to be nerfed. Someone who didn't even spend half of the ISK or SP that I spent should not be able to solo me.

[quote=Burntface man112]
tankers are gamers too, they want broken mechanics exactly as much as you do (not at all). I have a blaster gunnlogi that has been collecting dust because tanking isn't fun anymore. balance is fun imbalance isn't.