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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8487
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Posted - 2014.03.20 19:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
Syeven Reed wrote:CRNWLLC wrote:shadow drake35 wrote:up top will calidari be best recon amarr fighting gal stealth minitar speed is that right I think it's like this: Cal = scan master Min = hacker/blademaster Gal = ghost (master baiter, if you will) Amarr = passed over That's it. Amarr hasn't been passed over. It's the most assault out of them all! High HP with the ability to run around everyone. An Amarr done right is going to be bad ass!
My question is why is it more assault?
We already have an assault. Two if you could the Assault Logi we have.
**** that. Amarr needs a Scout, not a light assault.
Give me a reason we cannot have that like every other racial group in new eden.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8490
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Posted - 2014.03.20 19:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:True Adamance wrote:Syeven Reed wrote:CRNWLLC wrote:shadow drake35 wrote:up top will calidari be best recon amarr fighting gal stealth minitar speed is that right I think it's like this: Cal = scan master Min = hacker/blademaster Gal = ghost (master baiter, if you will) Amarr = passed over That's it. Amarr hasn't been passed over. It's the most assault out of them all! High HP with the ability to run around everyone. An Amarr done right is going to be bad ass! My question is why is it more assault? We already have an assault. Two if you could the Assault Logi we have. **** that. Amarr needs a Scout, not a light assault. Give me a reason we cannot have that like every other racial grouWp in new eden. with the weapons we have now in the game and your skills in drop suit upgrades playing a huge part in scout it's gonna effect what you choose. So if you have no electronics skills maxed pickin cal or gal will leave you at a disadvantage until you do, same with minmatar, if you have no hacking or shield or speed skills maxed, the amar is a battle scout. It's base HP is higher HP than most scouts run with mods. Basically it's the fighter and if your not good at being sneaky it has the stats to help you live cuz it can toe to toe better and has the stamina to reposition iself
Why is it the fighter? Why does it not truely adequately fulfil the role and design of a scout?
If you were in my position looking at the scouts and you see
calidari be best recon amarr fighting gal stealth minitar speed
Do you not wonder why Amarr are getting marginalised into a race of assault suits?
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8491
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Posted - 2014.03.20 20:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
Luna Angelo wrote:Because the Amarr ARE fighters. They are SUPPOSED to stand toe-to-toe with things better than the other races.
BTW, Caldari will be the best Hunter-Killer.
That is not at all our racial design.
Our racial design is endurance, this bonus reflects that, but in terms of in game balance the numbers do not stack up. But with only 30 more HP, less than one round, low speed, etc how do we stand up to them better?
Amarr have almost all the same ship variants any other race does in EVE and are not necessarily designed more of less for combat.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8497
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Posted - 2014.03.20 20:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Luna Angelo wrote:True Adamance wrote:Luna Angelo wrote:Because the Amarr ARE fighters. They are SUPPOSED to stand toe-to-toe with things better than the other races.
BTW, Caldari will be the best Hunter-Killer. That is not at all our racial design. Our racial design is endurance, this bonus reflects that, but in terms of in game balance the numbers do not stack up. But with only 30 more HP, less than one round, low speed, etc how do we stand up to them better? Amarr have almost all the same ship variants any other race does in EVE and are not necessarily designed more of less for combat. No, that IS your racial design. Best toe-to-toe Logi, best toe-to-toe Heavy, arguably the best toe-to-toe Assault, and best toe-to-toe Scout. The bonus makes no sense, but there it is.
So you are saying you believe all Amarr content needs to be relegated to combat and not given specialist roles like the other 3 racial groups.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8516
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Posted - 2014.03.20 22:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
knight of 6 wrote:caldari - scans all the things gallente - scans most of the things (but with more sneak) minmatar - in ur base hacking ur cannons and stabing ur doods amarr - RUN FOREST! RUN! Oh wait Min Scout got there first..... Yup well said
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8518
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Posted - 2014.03.20 23:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Luna Angelo wrote:Ivan Avogadro wrote:Luna Angelo wrote:[ Never said that. You still HAVE the specialist role. You're still a scout, you're just better suited than the other scouts to combat. What's to stop you from doing other things with it. Caldari will be the best Hunter-Killer, like it will be with it's other suits (exception of Logi, which will be best for restocking ammo), Gallentes are best at CQC, no matter the class, and Minmatar are the fastest, no matter the class. Amarr will just be the strongest combatants. Nothing more or less than that was my point. And, like I said, the bonus doesn't fit with the philosophy.
Remember, Amarr fight for their God, they fight on the front for that reason. Caldari are utilitarian, so they are longer range, as it's more efficient (not effective, but efficient), Gallente prefer being personal, so they will be, and are, the kings of CQC, and Minmatar use hit-and-run, skirmishing tactics, and thus are the fastest suits for that. One-on-one, Min wins, more than that, Amarr will win. Long-range, Caldari wins, up close, Gallente reigns supreme.
TL;DR: Amarr are fighters, Caldari are snipers (not the class, the playstyle), Gallentes are CQC, and Minmatar are skirmishers. You're presenting an argument without any substance. Lore can be whatever the devs say, it has no baring on game mechanics. So I want you to address your thesis. Luna Angelo wrote: you're just better suited than the other scouts to combat Please back that statement up with facts and reasons, not equivocation and lore. Why are the Amarr scouts better fighters than Gallente Scouts? First just looking at the suits themselves the Amarr are (a) lacking in native armor regen and (b) 4% slower. They recieve a 30 EHP buff total. Does 30 extra hit points make them better at combat? Arguable. And certainly not so self apparent that you can just make a blanket statement and expect everyone to agree with you. Next, look at the racial bonuses. Gallente get extra scan range, and extra dampening. Amarr get extra stamina and extra stamina regen. Everyone knows that the Gal bonus is complex level and the Am bonus is militia level. It's the source of most of the Amarr scout hate. But anyway, how exactly does extra stamina help them in a fight? Unless you are using melee, it doesn't. And its not like bunny hopping in a slower suit is any better than strafing in a faster suit If we are being honest with each other, dampening doesnt help with a fight either. It helps immediately before or immediately after, but if you are actively being shot at, a dampening bonus is worthless. So it's not like Gal is "better" here, but they certainly aren't worse at combat than the Amarr. What the Gal scout will be better at is picking its fights. To the casual observer, it will seem like Gal scouts win more often because they get to control engagements better. Cal scouts and Scanner Logis will be picking your Amarr scout up all the time. Gal scouts at least avoid that nonsense. In the end, you have a scout without a niche. Saying it's "combat" oriented because of a few HP isn't correct. Even Min scout is more combat because he gets a legitimate bonus to a weapon. Amarr have a little bit more defense, at the expense of health regen and speed. Reload bonus, damage bonus, clip size bonus, weapon fitting bonus...these are all things that would enhance a "combat specialist" persona. They are not on the Amarr scout. Lore DOES matter, though. I say these things because the lore is what drew me. That being said, I agree with your points. With a better bonus, one that's combat oriented, it would fall in line. As it is, it is a joke. I said THAT, too. When I said that Amarr are the better fighters, I meant the other suits are better suited. If the Amarr Scout had a better bonus, it would fit into that. Here is my reasoning: Amarr Assault has a laser weapon heat sink. Amarr logi has a sidearm. Amarr Sentinel has the best tank. Amarr Commando is, well, IDK, really, but only because I don't want to look up the bonus at the moment. With those facts, it stands to reason that Amarr Scout would follow the same path. So it's not JUST the lore, but the other suits.
Can I get your lore sources that state our combat doctrine oriented as you say? I would also like sources from EVE ships that point out how our specialist ships cannot functions effectively in their roles and are more inclined towards direct combat.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8519
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Posted - 2014.03.20 23:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Luna Angelo wrote: Adamance, my friend, you and I know that the EVE ships have 2-3 bonuses, while we just have 2.... And as for Lore, Templar One. The original was MADE to fight on the frontlines.
Can I get excerpts please?
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8521
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Posted - 2014.03.20 23:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Western Ways wrote:I worked these out at protofits and i gotta say, i don't think the amarr scout is as bad as people are making it out to be. I posted this in another topic but it seemed relevant to bring it into this one. I used the same weapon and equipment loadouts for each and tried to squeeze out as much ehp as i could out of the suits while giving them about the same ground speed.
Minmatar assault (within cpu and pg constraints) 404 cpu 78 pg 2 complex extenders 1 basic extender 1 complex plate 1 enhanced plate Proto CR, SMG, flux and triage nanohive
795 ehp 4.88 m/s run speed
Amarr scout (within cpu and pg constraints) 436 cpu 89 pg 2 complex extenders 1 complex plate 1 enhanced plate 1 complex ferroscale plate 1 basic ferroscale plate Same weapon/equipment loadout
823 ehp 4.84 m/s run speed
lol @ the amarr scout being a better assault suit than the minmatar assault, and it can get even beefier while still maintaining assault speeds.
Why are you tanking your Scout out? That wastes the suit and makes no sense.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8522
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Posted - 2014.03.20 23:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
My point is I dont think you can justify why the Amarr scout fulfils an assault role as opposed to a scout role?
You neither have lore evidence or knowledge like I can expect from other players, you are basing your assessment off of what? Some arbitrary knowledge you think you possess and are entitled to after playing this game for X months?
Have you even looked into Amarr combat doctrines and historical precedents of such combat doctrines?
Why even build a scout that isnt designed to scout?
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8528
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Posted - 2014.03.21 00:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Luna Angelo wrote:True Adamance wrote:My point is I dont think you can justify why the Amarr scout fulfils an assault role as opposed to a scout role?
You neither have lore evidence or knowledge like I can expect from other players, you are basing your assessment off of what? Some arbitrary knowledge you think you possess and are entitled to after playing this game for X months?
Have you even looked into Amarr combat doctrines and historical precedents of such combat doctrines?
Why even build a scout that isnt designed to scout? Adamance, I will find a few later and post them. Is that ok, my friend?
Sweet. I honestly have never read Templar One, but I do know its not a favourably looked upon source of Prime Fiction.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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