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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
3204
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 08:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
Seriously. 8 months and nothing? Come on...
Here's my solution, one last time: Establish 2 tiers of game modes - 1 for MLT-ADV and 1 for Unrestricted Collective Meta Level (Collective Meta Level = combined total Meta Levels from suit, weapons, equipment) The eligibility for the lower tier would be for dropsuits and vehicles built with a Collective Meta of 10 or less (just an example #), creating a bracket for lower skill players. The second tier would be focused on ADV-Officer classes. No Collective Meta restrictions, but a warning that you are entering fire and brimstone otherwise. All players would be able to compete at either level. In the lower tier, Vets could build ISK efficient fittings and put their actual gun game to the test against the noobs and the noobs wouldn't be so desperately outclassed by gear alone. On the other hand, noobs with huge egos could test their mettle and the state of their fittings against the vets in the upper tier.
Metaphorically speaking, it's like a swimming pool. A shallow end and a deep end. They share the same water and though the shallows may be for the little ones it's also a nice place for the adults to hang out and chill. The deep end is full of crazy divers and full grown people with a couple of kids trying to see how long they can hold their breath and try to touch the bottom.
This could be easily implemented with the systems we already have in place and not exclude any one particular part of the playerbase.
I GÖú Kittens.
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Kasote Denzara
A Vulture
1972
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Posted - 2014.03.20 08:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
inb4 "we donz haz enug playrs!"
"Go ahead and dual tank. My Commando dual ganks." -Kasote Denzara
I'm waiting for my G-I suit. It's what I want.
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
3204
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Posted - 2014.03.20 08:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kasote Denzara wrote:inb4 "we donz haz enug playrs!" My favorite lame excuse.
I GÖú Kittens.
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Kasote Denzara
A Vulture
1972
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Posted - 2014.03.20 08:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:My favorite lame excuse. Right? It's the best one out of all of th- Oh... it's the only one. Never mind. I forget that the community's argumentative skills are... as existent as the Amarrian heavy weapon.
"Go ahead and dual tank. My Commando dual ganks." -Kasote Denzara
I'm waiting for my G-I suit. It's what I want.
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Scar Scrilla
UN1TED NATIONS
161
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Posted - 2014.03.20 08:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kasote Denzara wrote:inb4 "we donz haz enug playrs!"
This ain't a viable argument IMHO. Think about this:
Let's imagine there were only four tennis players in this world, two great ones and two decent ones.
According to DUST514 matchmaking logic, these four players would be paired for double matches like this: The two great ones VS. the two decent ones.
Yet fair matchmaking would put the matchup like this: One great player and a decent one VS. a great player and a decent one.
Easy to understand I hope. Player numbers ain't the reason for bad matchmaking.
Btw, I think matchmaking in DUST has improved in some ways. I see less protostomps, or is it that I'm just lucky to run into fully stacked proto squads less frequently...dunno.
"Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses"
"Go and hack the letter(s)" - Join our public channel: UN1TE
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Short Bus Driver
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY
0
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Posted - 2014.03.20 08:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
The match making process.
The start of every Dust514 match
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
3204
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Posted - 2014.03.20 08:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
Scar Scrilla wrote:Btw, I think matchmaking in DUST has improved in some ways. I see less protostomps, or is it that I'm just lucky to run into fully stacked proto squads less frequently...dunno. I can't remember the last time I played a match that wasn't decided in the first minute and a half and redlined before the losers were even into their MCC's armor.
I GÖú Kittens.
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2054
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Posted - 2014.03.20 08:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
I know this isn't EVE. I am not stating that AV/vehicles are balanced. I understand there is a problem with AV. I understand that you think CCP doesn't listen or know how to balance things. I understand that you may believe that another patch may not come for a year. I know that the game has problems. I am not trying to say anything about balance, timely releases, quality of released content, competence of CCP or players or anything other than the following:
I agree but most of the community won't even respond. I would like to see something like this implemented I had a similar suggestion but as I say no one will go for it because of what ever reason they deem valid. Some type of segregation is needed to give players more choices, allow players to play more competitively in public contracts and to provide a better New Player Experience. This is my idea, it needs to be tweaked by better people than me but the idea is pretty much what you are saying.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
1158
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Posted - 2014.03.20 09:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
I disagree with gear-based tiers. The whole point of earning top gear is so you can have an advantage (at the cost of risking expensive stuff). If everyone in your match is wearing it, then it's no-longer an advantage and is simply PC without the big payout. That's not to say I'm happy with the current matchmaking process.
First, we need an optional 2nd tier academy that players under some threshold can join other low SP players (cap is something like 3-5 mill SP). This would help tremendously with new player retention. Next is finding a way to create good matches against the remaining players above that threshold.
I would give each player a talent index based on a variety of factors including total SP, average position at the end of the match, K/D, average WPs, ISK efficiency, etc. This number wouldn't be published to the players, but would be used to balance teams. Players who consistently finish near the top of their team will increase in rank, and those who consistently place lower will decrease in rank. Each player will eventually reach an equilibrium where they're in the top half roughly 50% of the time and the bottom half the rest.
While Scotty would do his best to pick 32 players closest in the talent index, the most important job will be to make sure that the sum of index rank of each team are close. As an example, if you have a full squad of excellent players some good players and a few mediocre players, it would put the mediocre players on the same team as the excellent players against a full team of good players. It's not perfect of course, but having a reasonably equal balance of talent index points on both sides should mean for more balanced matches, less stomping, and more intense fights that come down to the wire.
I realize that with low concurrent numbers, we face an uphill battle getting sufficient players to have good matchmaking, but what is most important is that each side is as evenly balanced as possible.
Best PvE idea ever!
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2055
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Posted - 2014.03.20 09:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:I disagree with gear-based tiers. The whole point of earning top gear is so you can have an advantage (at the cost of risking expensive stuff). If everyone in your match is wearing it, then it's no-longer an advantage and is simply PC without the big payout. That's not to say I'm happy with the current matchmaking process.
First, we need an optional 2nd tier academy that players under some threshold can join other low SP players (cap is something like 3-5 mill SP). This would help tremendously with new player retention. Next is finding a way to create good matches against the remaining players above that threshold.
I would give each player a talent index based on a variety of factors including total SP, average position at the end of the match, K/D, average WPs, ISK efficiency, etc. This number wouldn't be published to the players, but would be used to balance teams. Players who consistently finish near the top of their team will increase in rank, and those who consistently place lower will decrease in rank. Each player will eventually reach an equilibrium where they're in the top half roughly 50% of the time and the bottom half the rest.
While Scotty would do his best to pick 32 players closest in the talent index, the most important job will be to make sure that the sum of index rank of each team are close. As an example, if you have a full squad of excellent players some good players and a few mediocre players, it would put the mediocre players on the same team as the excellent players against a full team of good players. It's not perfect of course, but having a reasonably equal balance of talent index points on both sides should mean for more balanced matches, less stomping, and more intense fights that come down to the wire.
I realize that with low concurrent numbers, we face an uphill battle getting sufficient players to have good matchmaking, but what is most important is that each side is as evenly balanced as possible.
I know this isn't EVE. I am not stating that AV/vehicles are balanced. I understand there is a problem with AV. I understand that you think CCP doesn't listen or know how to balance things. I understand that you may believe that another patch may not come for a year. I know that the game has problems. I am not trying to say anything about balance, timely releases, quality of released content, competence of CCP or players or anything other than the following:
The problem I have with the rank, which I think is a good idea, is that a new player in a squad of vets that is being trained will be outmatched, with a tiered system it would prevent 31 proto players with only one noob. There should be a way for us to choose the difficulty of the battles to allow us to train new players, have a testing area and stop protostomping of not-so-good players but still give us an option like we have now to just go all in. Check out my suggestion, yes the numbers are off but a similar idea is needed.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
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deezy dabest
CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY
243
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Posted - 2014.03.20 09:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Kasote Denzara wrote:inb4 "we donz haz enug playrs!" My favorite lame excuse.
I laughed at it before as well but even with the couple thousand players extra we had during the MCC event the difference in matchmaking was noticeable and I have not ever seen as many even matches.
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
1159
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Posted - 2014.03.20 09:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:I know this isn't EVE. I am not stating that AV/vehicles are balanced. I understand there is a problem with AV. I understand that you think CCP doesn't listen or know how to balance things. I understand that you may believe that another patch may not come for a year. I know that the game has problems. I am not trying to say anything about balance, timely releases, quality of released content, competence of CCP or players or anything other than the following: Whoa, I'm not sure where you got all of that. There are plenty of issues with the game, and it's true that it seems CCP could do a better job of listening to the community, but I think they're on the right track for sure in many ways.
Quote:The problem I have with the rank, which I think is a good idea, is that a new player in a squad of vets that is being trained will be outmatched, with a tiered system it would prevent 31 proto players with only one noob. There should be a way for us to choose the difficulty of the battles to allow us to train new players, have a testing area and stop protostomping of not-so-good players but still give us an option like we have now to just go all in. Check out my suggestion, yes the numbers are off but a similar idea is needed. New player being coached by a full squad of vets is what I would call an edge-case. There are a few answers to this one. The first is to tough it out. Use teamwork, protect the noob, treat it like an escort mission in other games. This could be fun in it's own way. The second option is to make an alt and use it to squad up with new players (this is easy, reasonable, and fun in it's own kinda way). Last CCP could re-implement the corp battles from chrome. Many of us want this feature for organized fights and training.
Best PvE idea ever!
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2055
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Posted - 2014.03.20 09:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:Rynoceros wrote:Kasote Denzara wrote:inb4 "we donz haz enug playrs!" My favorite lame excuse. I laughed at it before as well but even with the couple thousand players extra we had during the MCC event the difference in matchmaking was noticeable and I have not ever seen as many even matches.
I know this isn't EVE. I am not stating that AV/vehicles are balanced. I understand there is a problem with AV. I understand that you think CCP doesn't listen or know how to balance things. I understand that you may believe that another patch may not come for a year. I know that the game has problems. I am not trying to say anything about balance, timely releases, quality of released content, competence of CCP or players or anything other than the following:
Player numbers are very important to matchmaking but for us to have more players we need places to go where we can fight on a mercs skill level. Without that new players will always feel like they are being stomped. I do agree, those extra active players did make a big difference in match making but it still put protostompers with less skilled players or players that can't afford proto suits.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2055
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Posted - 2014.03.20 09:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
I know this isn't EVE. I am not stating that AV/vehicles are balanced. I understand there is a problem with AV. I understand that you think CCP doesn't listen or know how to balance things. I understand that you may believe that another patch may not come for a year. I know that the game has problems. I am not trying to say anything about balance, timely releases, quality of released content, competence of CCP or players or anything other than the following:
Vell0cet, I have started putting this disclaimer in fort of all my post so everyone understands the point I am trying to make instead of going off on some tanget on how I am a noob stompin vet, fanboy, KDR padder or whatever other excuse they want to use to try to put words in my post that I didn't meant.
I agree with what you say in the second paragraph 100% but I think we need more choices that makes this game feel like our choices do matter. Picking one of three battle types or FW doesn't really feel like a choice that influences my outcome and it sure as hell doesn't make me feel like I can influence the outcome of a battle.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
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deezy dabest
CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY
244
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Posted - 2014.03.20 23:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:deezy dabest wrote:Rynoceros wrote:Kasote Denzara wrote:inb4 "we donz haz enug playrs!" My favorite lame excuse. I laughed at it before as well but even with the couple thousand players extra we had during the MCC event the difference in matchmaking was noticeable and I have not ever seen as many even matches. I know this isn't EVE. I am not stating that AV/vehicles are balanced. I understand there is a problem with AV. I understand that you think CCP doesn't listen or know how to balance things. I understand that you may believe that another patch may not come for a year. I know that the game has problems. I am not trying to say anything about balance, timely releases, quality of released content, competence of CCP or players or anything other than the following: Player numbers are very important to matchmaking but for us to have more players we need places to go where we can fight on a mercs skill level. Without that new players will always feel like they are being stomped. I do agree, those extra active players did make a big difference in match making but it still put protostompers with less skilled players or players that can't afford proto suits.
Yea matchmaking has become quite the catch 22.
Hopefully with PC finally starting to do something the protos will stay a little more busy but factional still divides the Qs and leaves Scotty making a mess out of matches.
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
3665
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Posted - 2014.04.17 17:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
A lot of posts involving the MM situation today, so...
Bump.
I GÖú Kittens.
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Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad.
300
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Posted - 2014.04.17 17:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Seriously. 8 months and nothing? Come on...
Here's my solution, one last time: Establish 2 tiers of game modes - 1 for MLT-ADV and 1 for Unrestricted Collective Meta Level (Collective Meta Level = combined total Meta Levels from suit, weapons, equipment) The eligibility for the lower tier would be for dropsuits and vehicles built with a Collective Meta of 10 or less (just an example #), creating a bracket for lower skill players. The second tier would be focused on ADV-Officer classes. No Collective Meta restrictions, but a warning that you are entering fire and brimstone otherwise. All players would be able to compete at either level. In the lower tier, Vets could build ISK efficient fittings and put their actual gun game to the test against the noobs and the noobs wouldn't be so desperately outclassed by gear alone. On the other hand, noobs with huge egos could test their mettle and the state of their fittings against the vets in the upper tier.
Metaphorically speaking, it's like a swimming pool. A shallow end and a deep end. They share the same water and though the shallows may be for the little ones it's also a nice place for the adults to hang out and chill. The deep end is full of crazy divers and full grown people with a couple of kids trying to see how long they can hold their breath and try to touch the bottom.
This could be easily implemented with the systems we already have in place and not exclude any one particular part of the playerbase.
Love your metaphor and it's definitely a good that idea that should be implemented. However you're forgetting tanks and that can easily be fixed by just setting the game mode to either a vehicle mode or not. Basically there's just another check box for vehicles in addition to the 2 tier game modes.
"One does not simply" look for a scout, it looks for you.
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
3670
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Posted - 2014.04.17 19:48:00 -
[18] - Quote
The vehicle thing is easily factored in, as you said, but not until there are all tiers of all vehicles (including those Speeders we were supposed to have before 2.0) available.
I GÖú Kittens.
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