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Draco Cerberus
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
833
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Posted - 2014.03.19 13:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
I think that all balance issues should be dealt with through the use of Hotfixes during downtime and be well advertised as an impending Hotfix on the news page when logging in. Placing a "balance" fix in a monthly release is begging for more problems as often the new code will glitch the system, cause mass ruin in any area of the world and it takes time to fix these things.
Balancing Hotfixes would allow user poling between balance passes after short periods of time (1-7 days) and allow devs to sculpt the profile of the item being balanced according to what model still benefits users while not being OP. We do give feedback, this would return us feedback and allow us to be part of the process rather than just harsh critics or QQers.
LogiGod earns his pips
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Draco Cerberus
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
841
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Posted - 2014.03.24 13:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
anaboop wrote:Fire the current patch makers and get a hotfix team :) dump the old slowpokes and bring in some fresh concepts
Have you ever reverse engineered a pile of noodles all knotted up on your plate? What you are asking would be just like that. It is hard enough for the current Dev team to go through the uncounted thousands of lines of code that make up Dust514, let alone someone unfamiliar with the code, to find the errors.
Yes there are most likely common programming practices being used such as commenting the code, but his still doesn't separate the good, the bad and the ugly. Something that has taken years to debug (not fixed yet but Soon TM) for the current team would take longer for the backup coders.
This also doesn't fix anything because the problems with one bug being fixed and then reappearing are most likely the result of an old copy of Dust being used to patch a newer version that has had a bugfix applied can replicate the bug in the newest version.
Most often these are things like math errors or typos. Sometimes is a fail balance pass over/under nerf and buff all at the same time. All of these thing are just human errors of which the solution to any and all of these things are usually just putting more man hours into them. Adjusting and fixing them as they are discovered.
Do your part by filing accurate bug reports, it can be a huge help to the team and ultimately this is a wiser solution than bringing on a whole new Dev team that potentially wouldn't be any better or worse than our current one. I for one have faith that the people working on Dust right now are the ones capable of fixing the problems so long as they can down enough Quaffe Ultra to keep them sound of mind and wide awake.
LogiGod earns his pips
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Draco Cerberus
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
842
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Posted - 2014.03.24 22:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:anaboop wrote:Fire the current patch makers and get a hotfix team :) dump the old slowpokes and bring in some fresh concepts Have you ever reverse engineered a pile of noodles all knotted up on your plate? ...I said alot of stuff... Do your part by filing accurate bug reports, it can be a huge help to the team and ultimately this is a wiser solution than bringing on a whole new Dev team that potentially wouldn't be any better or worse than our current one. I for one have faith that the people working on Dust right now are the ones capable of fixing the problems so long as they can down enough Quaffe Ultra to keep them sound of mind and wide awake. If it was DUST's stand alone engine running it? then sure bringing in new blood and then having to teach them to run off your engine and develop around it can be a learning process... But this is Unreal Engine 3... Thief The Recent Playstation 4 game was done on UE3... which performed at high frames rates consistently. Even though the texture tears and pop in's That Unreal Engine 3 is known for it was still solid. There are expert's in Unreal Engine 3 out there... Most of the developers at CCP are young and probably havent done much with UE3 before they had to make the switch from the Carbon engine to the Unreal Engine 3... UE3 works well for budding developers.. Because a Developers license costs 100 bux. When you Release the game to public its 25% royalties on revenue earned... or a million bux for the license. DUST will have the same problems until More budget for DUST 514 is put aside to develop, optimize Or purchase a license agreement from a better engine..
Your budget concerns are similar to mine. The carbon engine though is something that CCP is using for asset development and is in use in DUST and EVE together. It is what makes our bullets, sidearms, reptools and tanks, going hand in hand with the Unreal 3 Engine, which seems flawed. Buggy from day one (human errors could account for much of this).
Eventually I expect CCP may develop their own engine for Dust but right now doesn't look like its a near future goal. Hiring an experienced programmer (I don't care if they need to put him in a locked room and feed him nothing but space food for months to get this done) to fix the bugs is something they should do and quickly.
LogiGod earns his pips
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Draco Cerberus
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
842
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Posted - 2014.03.24 22:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Updates fail not because they change too much.
They fail because they don't add enough content, and they spend too much time balancing vs fixing.
Content should have been the priority long ago (like PVE), but second to that should be actual fixes for things like hit registration, lag, broken terrain, sticking, etc. Balancing shouldn't even be done at this early stage.
Content is one thing entirely different from having a working game Buster, we've discussed this in the past and I agree more content more game but if you build this content on bad code are we ever going to have a working game?
LogiGod earns his pips
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Draco Cerberus
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
843
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Posted - 2014.03.26 23:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Updates fail not because they change too much.
They fail because they don't add enough content, and they spend too much time balancing vs fixing.
Content should have been the priority long ago (like PVE), but second to that should be actual fixes for things like hit registration, lag, broken terrain, sticking, etc. Balancing shouldn't even be done at this early stage.
Content is one thing entirely different from having a working game Buster, we've discussed this in the past and I agree more content more game but if you build this content on bad code are we ever going to have a working game? I understand your point as well, but we don't have players with a stale game. You probably know my little mantra, and I think it's appropriate here: Players will play a flawed but interesting game. They will not play a boring but flawless game. My point being that content does trump stability....to a point. Now many will claim that we're already at that point but I disagree. There are plenty of buggy, unstable games out there that are very successful. Many of these games are actually quite a bit more buggy than Dust. What they have that Dust does not is a compelling reason to log in and play.
I tend to agree partly with what you are saying mostly due to a new found love of killing Lara Croft in the PS+ Tombraider download I recently acquired. That said, how long should a game take to be bug free and have a clear amount of interesting content?
Currently we are at about the 2-3 year mark for Dust and more years in prior to the Alpha testing I am sure and we still have no PVE. I expect that CCP plans the release of some sort of additional content (PVE related) at around the 2.0 update time. It makes sense to expect yearly releases of major content and considering the miserable fail that the PC release was I expect there to be something more tangible for the majority of players to enjoy.
Given the limited amount of time devs seem to be putting into fixing bugs, and adding more content I assume that the recent lack of visible progress is due in a large art to planning and coding features which we have asked to be bug free upon release such as PVE, Exploration and the Market. Look at the majority of complaints and you will see a lot of questions asking something similar to "did you guys actually test this before releasing it?" in the threads.
Bottom line is we should give the Devs a break, and let them put their plans into action. They are working hard, I am mostly certain, to bring us what we want but they want to give us the whole package at once. Not piecemeal like they gave us the suits and vehicles, they want a simple deployment like they have done with Eve for years with minor hotfixes to solve small problems not a stack of hotfixes like the ones planned for 1.8.
Keep on programming CCP, I believe you will come through eventually with what we anticipate will draw a larger number of players to shoot, gank, trick and trade with and we all know you want to unleash a horde of drones on us to test our mettle.
LogiGod earns his pips
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Draco Cerberus
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
843
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Posted - 2014.03.27 00:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
anaboop wrote:
I agree with that as well, its at a by-pass 50-50, maybe abit more to one side or the other, but the new content has been given more attention then bug fixing.
As to the other nitwit that posted, this isnt just about nerfing, its about fixing and I dont think you understood tit properly, that was my "PERSONAL" opinion, yes given its not popular being a tank I think railgun tanks need a look at, the point being is changing to much in one hit will cause unforseen bugs exploits etc. So either read it through or dont bother posting again :)
You are quite right anaboop, changing too much at once does lead to problems as seen with the nerf hammer updates we have had thus far in Dust history.
Up until recently there has been very little in the way of added content, barring new weapons, most of what we have had is simply variations on the same concepts (FW, PC, Pubs), new maps and new suit skins which in a way is content but not compelling content as Buster is describing in his post. Compelling content would be some reason for being, a need to fulfill rather than being a separate part of New Eden but instead being a valued part for one reason or another. At the moment (barring OB pilots) we have no meaningful interaction with Eve. Every day I ask why we are in the same universe if there is no connection, no substance other than ISK that is a tangible part of New Eden.
Failing Updates is not specific enough to describe what seems inherently wrong in the game, clones should have a reason to exist other than existence alone, a purpose is needed. This is not a failure of updates but rather a design flaw that stems right back to the beginning of the game where there was no reason and none has been given since.
In all reality failing to make the game in the way you specifically want it to be does not equal a failure, merely that they did not succeed at doing what you wanted them to. They can't be faulted for that because in all reality there are at least 3500 other people playing, many of which give opinions, ideas and feedback about what they want devs to do, it is the devs choice what they include and what they don't.
LogiGod earns his pips
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