Haven't touched my Proto Swarms in 3 months.
They're utterly useless at Proficiency III.

Would you like to borrow them for a week or two?
Maybe give 'em a try so you can speak from an informed position?

Let me know.

I'll keep this short as it turns out my next video contains my full reply. And I don't mean this in a nasty way; but everything you suggest in the OP (post 1; not the continuation) will not help at all and will in-fact make things worse. I can't type up a response as it's way too much. But Suggesting an 80% resistance module shows a limited understanding of the mechanics of the vehicle damage model. I almost stopped reading as soon as I saw that.

That said, I do approve of the effort and thought you put to this, I just think you missed the mark by a long, long way.

Well done.

Also, inb4 "tiericide," because that's not the way to go while dropsuits and weapons are still tiered (nor does CCP even hint at tiericide for them)

Oh before I forget, I think 60% shield resistance should be at proto level while 40% is militia/standard. 60% is too much resistance for no SP while 80% at proto is game-breaking. And keep the current cooldowns. 45 seconds of cooldown is long enough at max skills for proto.

I'll keep this short as it turns out my next video contains my full reply. And I don't mean this in a nasty way; but everything you suggest in the OP (post 1; not the continuation) will not help at all and will in-fact make things worse. I can't type up a response as it's way too much. But Suggesting an 80% resistance module shows a limited understanding of the mechanics of the vehicle damage model. I almost stopped reading as soon as I saw that.

That said, I do approve of the effort and thought you put to this, I just think you missed the mark by a long, long way.

You seem to have given some thought to this but from my point of view all you are suggesting is to make tankers who have invested in tanks be nearly unbeatable. 8.1 forge hits to kill a tank is reasonable? Have you ever tried to get 9 forge hits in a tank?

I'll keep this short as it turns out my next video contains my full reply. And I don't mean this in a nasty way; but everything you suggest in the OP (post 1; not the continuation) will not help at all and will in-fact make things worse. I can't type up a response as it's way too much. But Suggesting an 80% resistance module shows a limited understanding of the mechanics of the vehicle damage model. I almost stopped reading as soon as I saw that.

That said, I do approve of the effort and thought you put to this, I just think you missed the mark by a long, long way.

I disagree. Hardenes should not make tanks almost invincible against AV. Why should tanks get hardeners at all? Drop suits don't get magical hardeners? Your answer will probably be some variation if "because it is a TANK" . That is not an answer but merely a reiteration of the question.

To objectively look at AV/tank balance we first have to get rid of any preconceived notions of what a tank should be and do. First, it is like a suit that goes over another suit, you can run precisely the same suit I am using in your tank so any disadvantage the tank may have is completely negated by the fact that you can jump out of it. Therefore besides cost a tank confers only advantages. What are the advantages? Invulnerability to most weapons, and a 400 or 500 percent increase in HP, plus a regeneration ability, a 700-1000 percent increase in speed. A 400-500 increase in DPS.

What is the argument for why this should be? ISK expenditure. A MLT tank cost 70-100K, less than a proto suit. A fully fitted tank costs 10 times that but look at the perfirmance/cost ratio on any other gear or suit and you will see that tanks are not commiserate with cost. A proto suit costs 10 times as much as a STD suit yet the performance is probably less than 50 percent better; STD to Proto weapons the ratio is even less. MLT tanks confer a 2000 percent cumulative bonus, with no disadvantages, for the cost of a second STD suit. A really good tank may cost 6 times as much as a proto suit but it confers a 3000 percent cumulative performance increase.

This is not balanced with any aspect of the game. The only reason it is accepted at all is because everyone come with preconceived notions of what a tank is.

Possibly what you has said is why I am so hesitant to try and make a manifesto like this.

I understand that anything that is done to vehicle modules that affect HAV in one manner affect dropship pilot in an equally, or more dramatic manner.

THe issues is the way swarms apply damage. In some cases the two damage modles mean as little as 45 damage difference between the two methods, but with swarms its a huge deal. that 45 HP, as I show in the video is the difference between shields regenerating or not. Makes a very noticeable impact on balance.

The video has a nice example that I hope will make it clear. The first 25 minutes is done (i know..loooooooooong, but this stuff is complicated) Wrapping up the special effects and edits tomorrow. It turned into another rail tank type video. Make sure your brain is in gear when you watch it and have a beer to hand.

THe issues is the way swarms apply damage. In some cases the two damage modles mean as little as 45 damage difference between the two methods, but with swarms its a huge deal. that 45 HP, as I show in the video is the difference between shields regenerating or not. Makes a very noticeable impact on balance.

The video has a nice example that I hope will make it clear. The first 25 minutes is done (i know..loooooooooong, but this stuff is complicated) Wrapping up the special effects and edits tomorrow. It turned into another rail tank type video. Make sure your brain is in gear when you watch it and have a beer to hand.

What is your opinion on armor tanks repping through everything? The fact that you can stop the shield regen I see as a problem, when armor tanks can get higher regen than shield could possibly get, especially since they can get higher shield regen using one module.

You know shield dont regen as fast as you would like to think....not in EVE...not really in Dust..... just pointing that out.

No, they do not. This is why I don't understand why people are upset that swarms don't stop the regen. Armor can get higher regen with a single module, armor can stack those modules to gain even higher regen while shield has no way to improve its regen capabilities, armor can regen through anything, while all AV weapons save swarms can stop shield regen, and armor has a skill that can improve their regen even further, while shields skill merely decreases the depleted recharge delay. This is clearly imbalanced in armor's favor. Yet people are upset over swarms unable to stop shield regen?

Nothing stops shield regen...to my knowledge....but I am sure that is wrong.

My only point is Shield get a regen without a module to compensate for their lower HP values, and make use of instant regen modules. Arguably very useful.

Armour is not supposed to have lesser reps, armour reppers in EVE cycle pulses whilethe module is active. Its not as useful as a 1 off boost, or natually regen, but its designed to be in between and reliable.

I personally would love to see shield modules for the low slots like armour to boost rates to move away from dual tanking.

As far as I have observed, the only thing that does not stop shield regen is swarms, and only then if a hardener is activated. Thus, I don't understand the complaints, since armor regens faster, has more base health, and can improve their regen through skills. There's no tradeoff.

Everyone is bitching about tanks, and rightfully so. Tanks as it stands are slaughtering everything left and right. This is as it should be, TO A POINT. A tank should be powerful and deadly, otherwise they have no use. They should not be so cheap as to lose 4 and be able to turn a profit. I should also not be able to get the same effectiveness from militia to proto modules. This is part of why tanks are hard to kill except by other tanks. For no SP investment, and not even 10% the ISK investment, I can run a tank that rivals a 10 million SP invested 500k tank. This is what cause them to be imbalanced. Because everyone and their mother can run them so easily and so cheaply, with almost no difference in performance from militia to proto. Thus the tank spam we have currently.

Imagine, for instance, that the militia RR did the same damage as the proto RR, and the only difference was in the charge up time of the rifle. Why would anyone run the proto rifle when the militia one does the same damage for a tenth the price and a third the fitting cost? So I've come up with some ideas to make a proto tank as powerful as all tanks are now, while making militia tanks weaker, and giving AV some way to counter a tank either militia or proto.

EDIT: All numbers can be changed. The numbers given are to illustrate the concept, not provide exact details. Also, my previous edit was kind of dickish sounding, so I apologize for that.

Changing Active Modules

Currently, the only improvement in modules as you ascend the tiers is the cooldown time. As a tanker, this means that a militia hardener is just as effective as my proto hardener, so I gain no advantage beyond less downtime running my proto hardener. This should not be. I should have an advantage running my proto gear against militia gear. So let's redo modules to improve in efficiency, while retaining the same uptime and cooldown as you go through the tiers.

So currently, shield hardeners have these stats:

Basic Shield Hardener: 60% resistance, 24s uptime, 100s cooldown
Enhanced Shield Hardener: 60% resistance, 24s uptime, 80s cooldown
Complex Shield Hardener: 60% resistance, 24s uptime, 60s cooldown

I would have them changed to this:

Basic Shield Hardener: 60% resistance, 24s uptime, 120s cooldown
Enhanced Shield Hardener: 70% resistance, 24s uptime, 120s cooldown
Complex Shield Hardener: 80% resistance, 24s uptime, 120s cooldown

This gives my proto hardener a distinct advantage over a militia one (I can take more damage) while emphasizing the "wave of opportunity" concept CCP has for vehicles. It also means that even if I run 3 hardeners at max skills, there will still be a period of time where hardeners are down. If need be, perhaps even a cap on the number of modules of one type that can be fitted.