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Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
192
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Posted - 2014.03.18 20:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok to start off CCP I am very sad to see that you made no attempt at all to fix vehicles in 1.8 along with new infantry changes and thus seeing how I have time will try to help explain the issues with your current tanks.
The idear CCP had was to make it so there was windows of opportunity but because of the way CCP went about it with changes they ****** up almost entirely but it can still be done if they make the right changes.
First off Modules stats because this is the main issue
like how so many tankers put it you no longer need to put skills into tanks to be good at it and thats because of the module stats for instance you got a armor hardner on your tank thats 40% armor resistance great but it doesn't matter if it is complex or mlt because it's still the same now granted the lower tier it is the higher the cooldown and maybe less duration which not all are effected by tier but think of it this way a mlt dmg mod high cooldown and not much duration you can kill a tank and run to redline wait for cooldown and go back out thus negating the downside to using mlt and since it is mlt even if you lose it thats not much isk so they need to scale the stats again like it used to be for instance armor hardner
MlT would be 10%, standard would be 20%, advance 30%, and proto for it's current stat of 40% and do this for the rest of the modules
This would stop them from saying it doesn't take skill and also force anyone who wants to use a tank to actually spec into it also lowering if not stoping tank spam
Next is hardners
How can you have windows of opportunity if you can stack hardners. The low penalty along with like say 2 shield hardners jumps the resistance so high it's unfair overall and cycling them also defeats the whole purpose of the new tank design CCP has made so honestly the only way I see this being fixed is to limit them to only 1 per type so you could only have at max 1 shield and 1 armor hardner on tank. This will make killing a tank easier because he can't turn on more than 1 hardner and if you can catch him without it you can kill him which is how CCP intended it to be.
Now for the Rep rates
CCP didn't you say that you was gonna make reps that they would be so slow and low that it wouldn't be possible to survive prolonged combat because thats not what I see from what I understand (and I don't use armor tanks much) you can have 2 complex heavy armor reps and a hardner and this can handle just about anything on the field besides another tank and shield tanks when they turn on their hardners they can actually rep while being hit by swarms so my suggestion would be to drop it by 25% for both shields and armor maybe 50% and maybe add a penalty for using more than 1 armor rep simply because they can spam it like that as to balance them out with shields also need the fix that whole rep while being hit by swarms(though this only works when hardner is on) then just like you had said back before 1.7 tanks would have to back off before hardners were gone so as to not take too much dmg and die unlike what we got now
Vehicle dmg mods
In all honesty you don't really need them for tanks especially if you changed guns a bit which I will get to in a sec right now they are giving WAY to much DMG bonus. As it stands put a 30% dmg mod on a mlt railgun and it has exactly the same dmg as a proto railgun which is beyond stupid if you ask me and I feel they should be dropped to at least 15% because 15% would put the mlt railgun at the dmg of Advance 1 dmg mods jumps dmg up 1 lvl not 2 and thats seems more balanced to me also if CCP wanted to they could limit the dmg mods to 1 per type on a tank but it's not really needed.
Vehicle weapons
Blasters
Blasters as they stand are hard to change because they effect both vehicles and infantry and they are used more on infantry than vehicles because of their disadvantage to other tanks like say a railgun. The issue I see is the dmg output vs shield tanks which is what they should be dominating at close range so my suggestion is to increase the bonus dmg(not base dmg) that they do to shield enough so that at close range they would be on par with a shield railgun tank instead of being outmatches like they are now and this wouldn't effect infantry as much as it would vehicles and it would return the blasters to their rightful place as kings of killing shield tanks.
Missles
These are harder to use and change because of the firing system they have they carry around 12 shots and you can unload all of them into a tank which is what makes it harder to balance. The issue I see is that with 1 dmg mod or none really you could kill just about any armor tank (even with his harnder) in 1 volley as long as you don't miss and so I feel the dmg is a bit to much but because of the firing system lowering dmg is only gonna hurt them so right now the only thing I can think of would be to lower it's dmg and increase it's reload speed but honestly I'm not sure. Against shields unless he sneaks up on him you can normally kill the missle tank with your railgun because the missles do so little but it seems more balanced with missles vs shields so best thing to do is lower it's bonus dmg to armor and that should help armor tanks not get one shotted by them
Now railguns.......
Ok railguns.....They are powerful I'll give you that but most the time I see them with dmg mods which is 1 of the reasons everyone hates them especially ADS players but it's not the railgun per say it's the redline along with dmg mods that makes a railgun tank seem OP but against other tanks it wins simply because the other tank weapons need changes which I have stated(more so blaster than missles srry about that guys) but if they did these changes then you would see alot less of these noob tanks and they actually wouldn't hit as hard with mlt railguns because they would have loss dmg with a dmg mods nerf and dmg stat scaling thus only ........ |
Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
192
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 20:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
reserved |
Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
192
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 22:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:ull be surprised how well 500hps reps is out dpsed by swarms or forges... the only thing keeping it alive is that short break it gets from the enemy team. sustained fire will kill my 500hps rep maddy really fast...cant really stand up to anything higher than a large unspecced mlt blaster though.
on higher tiers of the large blaster turret i have seen it rip a hardened shield tank to bits within seconds..
i dont agree with your idea of module balancing as it isnt really balancing at all when concerned with the multiple vehicle tiers we may get in the future. as of now std is around 30% better than mlt. at the unspecced level for tanks. even with that rather large gap tank vs tank is alot more balanced now than how it was in the past.
with tanks vs av. 1.7. im able to chuck 3 std av nades then finish our average mlt tank with a clip of adv swarms. was prettty successful with it as well on my mlt suit. large missile turrets.. these things are to be feared by armor tanks and un hardened shield tanks in general. the long reload for them is what balances from my view. as they will have to run away after firing that volley. if not their dead unless the tank they fired the volley upon loses their nerve and runs for the hills.
with rail tanks. even in close are rather deadly. though ive had some measure of success at beating them with a low leveled blaster turret im caught at a disadvantage if they have hardeners up. or active damage mods. best to try and use the better turret rotation speed of the blaster against them when up close. if its a glass cannon more than likely av will have no problem dealing with them up close either. at range they can be deadly but the only ones to be worried about are spcced out. it takes 2 rail gun damage mods just to barely hit through a single shield hardener.
like I said I'm not sure how to balance missles but I know it's a bit to much to be able to go through an armor tank like that and I'm sorry but unless they do this the tank spam would never stop and that actually is balancing it and we will never get tiered vehicles just different type because they have tried twice to being out proto tanks and they had to take them out and the module balance I put wouldn't effect the multi tiered tanks at all |
Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
192
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Posted - 2014.03.18 22:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
and also what you are fighting are mostly noob fit tanks like what was somewhat explained here that everyone is spamming you wouldn't be able to kill me so easily with a low fit blaster actually I don't think it's even possible unless you had help and I've seen my tank take hits from missles with dmg mods with no hardner and still survive but it was st maybe |
Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
193
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Posted - 2014.03.19 00:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
MRBH1997 wrote:As one who has tanked since open beta I've seen all patches since then and have been a part of them. I agree wih you that modules should have efficiency differences from militia to prototype, not just recharge and active times. I think CCP should reimplement the restriction of having only one type of hardener per fit, it would get rid of the issue of pansies usif double or even triple hardener so they can suck and still live.
Now with blaster damage bonuses against shields I beleive are unnecessary, you just need to not just sit there and fire at a railgun shield tank you need to move and use it's turn speed against it and if it has a hardener you can still punch through it. Now missiles wih a damage mod can kill a hardener tank with one volley IF it is proto and sometimes adv. But the main thing that makes them destroy is double damage mods. I agree they need to lower damage increase a little the damage bonus though it could stay that way proto but as stated earlier the lower speced into the module is the less effective it will be.
So no nerfs are really needed to weapons other than maybe militia railguns, they do do the same damage of a standard and as stated can do the same damage as a particle cannon but it may not be necessary if modules are fixed wih efficiency differences. Now those tanks you see rolling double armor rep will never have 500 rep a second due to stacking penalties and only get somewhere around 400 rep a second and only can you see double complex with a tanker who speced really far into fitting optimization skills. I'm one who roles double rep and hardener and have many times when AV knocks me down below my warning point and I start backing away usig terrain to my advantage to cover me so I can get my armor back up and learn the source of the AV so I can plan an engagement.
Overall you have a lot of the right ideas I feel and CCP should take some of them to a future patch. +1 to you sir!
thanks I wasn't sure really about missles they just feel a bit overpowering to armor tanks but my tank which only has 1 hardner and no dmg mods can walk right up to a proto blaster tank with a dmg mod and he can try and flank me but I can still kill him with no problem so the reason I said that was because with the bonus to turn rate on turrets its harder to flank a railgun tank and even when I am flanked I can still get them but everything like I was saying is based off what I seen from 1.7 and you might be right but it just feels underpowered to shield tanks especially a railgun tank but thats my personal opinion if I based it off me using a blaster tank than I wouldn't need a dmg mod and I could take out armor and shield tanks well unless it was a 2-3 shield hardner tank |
Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
193
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 00:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
Medical Crash wrote:Tailss Prower wrote:......someone who truly skilled into tanks could actually be a major threat to them in the redline now if they did this and railguns still seemed to much then I would go on to discuss how it should be changed but right now it's not as bad as it seems its just everything else about tanks that makes it OP.
AV vs Tanks
Swarms
now yes right now AV is almost worthless but if they did these changes it would not be as bad however somethings for AV still need a change for instance swarms I agree were over nerfed they should get at least 50-100M range back and maybe 10-20 base dmg anymore and it would become to strong plus the issue where shield tanks can still rep shields while being hit by swarms when hardner is on
Forge gun
The forge is pretty balanced besides the forge gun glitch which allows you to move while using a breach by simply jumping I disagree with logic behind some things but as it stands they are pretty balanced just they run into the duel stacking and heavy rep tanks so much that they can't fight off tanks as well
Plasma Cannon
I'm actually seeing this being used alot and it is very effective vs shields I'm actually scared of them in 1.8 because of the prof skill increasing their dmg to shields overall they not so bad maybe need a bit more projectle speed but other than that it's gonna do fine vs shield tanks in 1.8
RE's and PR's
I remember hearing that putting RE's on Lav's was not intended but I'm not sure nor do I care RE's as they stand as traps and not for lav bombs are fine just got to be patient and while I think they should do is allow you to put them on enemy vehicles but not ally vehicles and it would fix that problem right there. Now for PRs they seem a bit weak and with the equipment spam makes great traps but if they were to stop equipment spam I would say increase dmg but also make alarm go off like 10-20m more than what it is now and louder but for increased dmg this is fair(that and even when you hear it doesn't mean you know where it is)
Now these are the things I think would balance out tanks and AV a bit better based off what I been seeing in 1.7 cause all I do is use vehicles even before 1.7 but this is stupid what they did in 1.7 and hope they at least take some of these idears and feel free to comment(not like I can stop you) ***** agree or even come up with and share your own idears bye now :P :P No. for that long of a charge time, the Proto Breach needs to do more damage. The Isu does more DPS than it, makes no sense,
no it doesn't see your one of those people who is basing it completely off tanks with more than 1 hardner or just a tank with a hardner you do understand I said nothing about lowering or increasing dmg because it doesn't need it my tank with 4900 shields 1 shot froma proto breach most likely prof skills and dmg mods can drop me from 4900 down to 1500 in 1 shot when hardner is off and down to like 3000-3500 if hardner was on and you want to up the dmg you need to rethink that statement if anything you shouldn't be able to use a breach simply because your holding a gun that does more dmg than a railgun tank can you should be grateful for having it |
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