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Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
540
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Posted - 2014.03.16 06:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Phazoid wrote:http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/0/737
757 stamina, 100+ stamina regen
"No Fitting Selected"
While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
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Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
541
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Posted - 2014.03.16 06:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:For the first one, http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/170/738Stats Scout ak.0 || Scout gk.0 Shield: 245.2 || 232.7 Armor: 333.5 || 311 EHP: 578.7 || 543.7 Armor Repair Rate: 6.25 || 3 Movement Speed: 5.09 || 5.18 Stamina: 360.94 || 441 Stamina Regen: 52.5 || 66.15 Profile Signature: 23.63 || 17.72 Scan Radius: 30 || 37.5 Amarr scout gets roughly 35 more EHP and 3 more armor repair rate, but Gallente scout is faster, can sprint longer, recover faster, has a lower profile signature, and can scan further. For the second one, http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/170/739Stats Scout ak.0 || Scout gk.0 Shield: 245.2 || 232.7 Armor: 454.5 || 459.5 EHP: 699.7 || 692.2 Armor Repair Rate: 12.5 || 9.25 Movement Speed: 4.94 || 4.92 Stamina: 360.94 || 441 Stamina Regen: 52.5 || 66.15 Profile Signature: 31.5 || 23.63 Scan Radius: 30 || 37.5 Amarr scout gets only 7.5 more EHP and 3.25 more armor repair rate, but Gallente scout is only 0.02 slower, can sprint longer, recover faster, has a lower profile signature, and can scan further.
You know what is so incredibly sad about the fact that these fits match up so well?
They are all designed towards amarrian stregnths, and the gallentan is still clearly better. You can not do the same trying inversely. What I mean is that if you were to make an amarr fit to try to match a given gallente fit, 9/10 times that would be not even close.
While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
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Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
542
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Posted - 2014.03.16 07:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
DJINN Marauder wrote:Hmm... Well I'm surprised that the gk.O fits are actually not that much better than the amarr fits.
The biggest differences were the scan range and profile. Which to be honest, range isn't that big a deal. 30 is still huge. Right now I play with range at level 3 on scout lv 5.. I think that's like 25m?
Profile on the other hand is pretty important. But nothing the amarr can't achieve by adding a dampener or 2.
Regardless, the gallente scout is in fact superior. I'd say it's the best scout come 1.8. But like the assault and logi suits, the true potential lies in the player, not the suit.
Also I'm hyped about the amarr scout 4 complex red build for start of PC. Enough stamina to not need a green and 4 reds should get it to like 10.9
#Amarr4lyfe Faith has never been so Fast
I believe CCP caps speed at 10m/sec.
This also means that you would be better off using a minmatar/gallente suits for this purpose. The amarr has a maximum average speed of 9.43 meters per second, with no additional benefits. The gallente has a max average speed of 9.6 meters per second, and the minmatar a max average speed of 9.7 meters per second. Both of the non-amarr suits offer additional benefits as well.
Also, the minmatar suit will get there first, every time... yes every time I don't care how you fit the amarrian suit, the minmatar will get there faster.
While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
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Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
543
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Posted - 2014.03.16 07:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Omareth Nasadra wrote:it's mostly the built-in armor repair that make the gallente OP, i agree with ya, the stamina bonus kinda suck compared to the profile one, i'll stick to my min, but i'd really like to see the ammar scout balance compared to the gallente, i still think it's a good suit, it's just that the gallente is so good Oh yeah the Amarr scout will still be a good suit no doubt, it's just that when you compare it to it's closest brother, the Gallente scout, it gets outperformed in every single way. There is no trade offs, the Gallente scout is just better. Now I'm not sure if the solution is to nerf the Gallente scout or buff the Amarr scout, but something needs to be done.
Change the bonus from a stamina one to this:
+5% per level to efficacy of biotic modules -5% per level to cloak recharge time
Done. Not over powered, but definately it's own role.
(Complex kincaats go from +12.6% to +15.75%, not a large change, and not enough to make the amarr faster than the other suits with only one red bottle)
While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
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Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
543
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Posted - 2014.03.16 07:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
DJINN Marauder wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:DJINN Marauder wrote:Hmm... Well I'm surprised that the gk.O fits are actually not that much better than the amarr fits.
The biggest differences were the scan range and profile. Which to be honest, range isn't that big a deal. 30 is still huge. Right now I play with range at level 3 on scout lv 5.. I think that's like 25m?
Profile on the other hand is pretty important. But nothing the amarr can't achieve by adding a dampener or 2.
Regardless, the gallente scout is in fact superior. I'd say it's the best scout come 1.8. But like the assault and logi suits, the true potential lies in the player, not the suit.
Also I'm hyped about the amarr scout 4 complex red build for start of PC. Enough stamina to not need a green and 4 reds should get it to like 10.9
#Amarr4lyfe Faith has never been so Fast I believe CCP caps speed at 10m/sec. This also means that you would be better off using a minmatar/gallente suits for this purpose. The amarr has a maximum average speed of 9.43 meters per second, with no additional benefits. The gallente has a max average speed of 9.6 meters per second, and the minmatar a max average speed of 9.7 meters per second. Both of the non-amarr suits offer additional benefits as well. Also, the minmatar suit will get there first, every time... yes every time I don't care how you fit the amarrian suit, the minmatar will get there faster. No CCP has capped speeds currently at 11.11. (Gall scout with 4 complex reds) Also minmitar is not faster when you put red mods. 4 lows with reds beats 3 lows with reds pretty sure.
Lets run the math instead of guessing:
Amarr (4 reds) 7.7175*1.126*(1+12.6*0.87/100)*(1+12.6*0.57/100)*(1+12.6*0.27/100)=10.68 m/sec
Minmatar (3 reds) 8.3055*1.126*(1+12.6*0.87/100)*(1+12.6*0.57/100)=11.1
So why not take one red off of each suit because stacking penalities suck
Amarr (3 reds) =10.33 m/sec Minmatar (2 reds) =10.37
Now you can throw one green bottle in each low-slot. The minmatar will have higher stamina regen, the amarr will have more stamina. In the end they will both reach the destination very close to eachother, but the minmatar suit will have 1 more open high-slot, will be able to hack things 25% faster, and will be able to OHKO almost any suit with nova knives. The amarr suit will have +30 base eHP.
While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
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Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
545
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Posted - 2014.03.16 07:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Llast 326 wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Omareth Nasadra wrote:it's mostly the built-in armor repair that make the gallente OP, i agree with ya, the stamina bonus kinda suck compared to the profile one, i'll stick to my min, but i'd really like to see the ammar scout balance compared to the gallente, i still think it's a good suit, it's just that the gallente is so good Oh yeah the Amarr scout will still be a good suit no doubt, it's just that when you compare it to it's closest brother, the Gallente scout, it gets outperformed in every single way. There is no trade offs, the Gallente scout is just better. Now I'm not sure if the solution is to nerf the Gallente scout or buff the Amarr scout, but something needs to be done. Change the bonus from a stamina one to this: +5% per level to efficacy of biotic modules -5% per level to cloak recharge time Done. Not over powered, but definately it's own role. (Complex kincaats go from +12.6% to +15.75%, not a large change, and not enough to make the amarr faster than the other suits with only one red bottle) +5 percent to biotics efficacyGǪ not opGǪ 25% efficacy on Kins + 5% more efficacy for skill Kins to complexGǪ yeah that is reasonable
I see someone doesn't know how to read.
Ok mouthbreather, look up and check out the underlined part, now go sit in the corner.
While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
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Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
545
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Posted - 2014.03.16 07:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
DJINN Marauder wrote:I'm getting different numbers for amarr with 4 reds... :/ Edit: so is it 10.7, 10.1...or ..?
Look, I showed you the math.
12.6% <---- max bonused kincat
Efficacy of modules (stacking penalites as you add more)
1st=1 2nd=0.87 3rd=0.57 4th=0.27
Now all you have to do is multiply it out, like above.
Minmatar base speed 5.65 Minmatar Sprint (*1.05 is for biotics lvl 5) 5.65*1.4*1.05=8.3055
Amarr base speed 5.25 Amarr sprint 5.25*1.4*1.05=7.7175
Now you have all the tools to do the calculations yourself.
While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
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Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
550
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Posted - 2014.03.16 07:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
C0TS wrote:Proto CR/Mag Sec Remotes, Adv Cloak 2 c extenders - 2(c and e) dampened with (c) kin cat and (c) reactive M8 focus nades
524 eHP, gives you the Dampening of Gal with one (c) Dampener plus of course cloak adv gets you under everything. Also proves, the armor rep. If you don't care for the rep there are even greater options at Proto for Amarr Scout.
I'm not saying the Cal Scout might not be the best or the Gal scout racial bonus provides it with the ability to equip a nice card cat to provide it with better stamina or stamina regen, but the Amarr Scout is not a worthless suit.
You don't have to choose it if you feel that it is inferior option. But at adv it is far superior to a Min Scout, and at Proto the slot lay out 2-4 is flexible, strong and can provide very strong fittings for those who spec into it.
Show me how it is superior to the min scout, please. I would love to see this one.
Or do you mean it would be better for you as you run a scout like an assault suit?
Because as far as I can tell, no suit will be better for camping hack-spots, or stealth hacking, or assassination than the minmatar suit will be.
While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
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Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
550
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Posted - 2014.03.16 08:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
C0TS wrote:I don't understand with this "race to the destination" - call in a LAV and even fatties will beat two scout morons who are running to the point.
The idea of using 3-4 kin cats is also ridiculous to the question of providing a fair and competitive build for the Amarr. At adv it is superior to the Min Scout and at Proto is slot layout 2-4 provides excellent possible fittings.
I prefer always using 2 (c) extenders in high myself but maybe cloaks will change that. I don't value the armor rep of 4/sec but i do agree its a nice boost. The 4 lows at Proto can easily be used to get under any radar if you feel that is one option. If a Gal uses a (c) card and the Amarr uses a (e) Dampener they might not be on par but it doesn't mean they aren't better than Min or not a competitive or potentially devastating choice of suit.
The Cal scout is a different story, based on its stats of only 2 low it has major drawback if its not slotted as a scanning master. It would require big slots at low to be used with dampeners making it far less mobile, no chance for a varied build, and has a low chance to have any sort of elite speed or stamina. Sure it can use 1 (c) extender and 3 (c) prec and be amazingly useful in a team but it won't be as good as the Gal or the Amarr in many roles.
No scout will excel at all roles, yes the Gal slot layout and racial (c) damp help greatly but you can't argue that Cal or Amarr scouts will be terrible in comparison. Or for that matter the Amarr Scout is some tragedy and needs more, it's all in the way you play and its 2-4 will allow for a very exciting and varied play style. And for some who lack elite SP, a varied suit capable of being anything from a silent killer to a light infantry is an appealing option because spec'ing into multiple suits is not an option.
Dude, repeating "it is superior to min at adv" does not make it any more right than when you said it the first time.
You appear to be under the impression that a 3-3 slot layout is bad. Well, when the minmatar can be faster, sprint farther, recover faster, hack faster, and do more damage than the amarr all at the SAME TIME, your point gets lost.
The minnie suit is going to be amazing, hands down. It fills a role perfectly. The amarr doesn't fill any role, and the roles it does try to fill are better served by either the gallente or the minmatar scouts. There is quite literally absolutely no purpose to the amarr scout.
Of course I do not even know why I am trying. You are just going to barely read this, the restate your same line of bull without any numbers or substantive proof at all. Le sigh.....
While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
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Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
551
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Posted - 2014.03.16 08:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Scout Registry wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote: Do you even realize that in all my examples not only does the Gallente scout have better e-war but it also has better stamina, stamina recovery, and speed. Apply some logic to that.
Not sure how you guys are coming to the conclusion that Gallente beats Amarr in stamina and stamina regen. By my math, Amarr have the highest Stamina Pool and second highest Stamina Regen. Stamina Math (Ranked by Highest)Stamina,Lvl(1),Lvl(3),Lvl(5),Biotics(5),CmpCardReg(x1) Amarr,275,316,344,361,758 Minmatar,225,225,225,236,496 Gallente,200,200,200,210,441 Caldari,200,200,200,210,441 Stamina Regen Math (Ranked by Highest)Stamina_Regen,Lvl(1),Lvl(3),Lvl(5),Biotics(5),CmpCardReg(x1) Minmatar,80,80,80,84,176 Amarr,40,46,50,53,110 Gallente,30,30,30,32,66 Caldari,30,30,30,32,66
Can we please start getting people banned for not reading the OP or any of the thread?
While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
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Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
563
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Posted - 2014.03.16 20:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cotsy wrote:DozersMouse XIII wrote:99% of all these proposed fits SUCK
this is not how I would fit my gallente scout
and thats not how I would fit out an amarr scout
Yes, but when someone is forcing a race/class to be something it isn't, then you have to adjust the build. If that buikd isn't how you would or how it is intended, that sort of is the point. If he wants to have a low profile, then running 2 damp is required. If he wants to use a certain weapon or equipment to make his argument then you try to equip that in the build as well. If he wants you to make the Gal Sent into a shield tanker with high recharge rate so it can be on-par with the Cal Sent then that is what you do. Choose a race and pin hole it's build into something it isn't and then argue that its a huge disadvantage because it can't do what it is not designed to do, The Amarr scout has the flexibility to be a lot of things, its slot layout alone makes it a great suit. I don't see people complaining that the Cal or Min scout can't play the Dampener game, with only 2 lows it would be very hard to be flexible. Sure the Cal and Gal bonus are a very nice compliment to their niche but so is a stamina and stamina regen to a versitile build. I showed clearly that the differences between Gal and Amarr are negligible at advanced tiers. That was the question and i answered it given the parameters, were they necessarily fair, no... Was the build designed to bring out the best qualities, maybe not but if you're not gonna use precision scammers on a scanning suit and argue it can't do this or that, then simply don't pick that suit for that role,
Someone is missing the point. The OP's point is that there is NO ROLE that the amarr scout will be better at than the gallente scout. He is willing to prove it, and he is asking all of you to prove him wrong. No one has yet.
DozersMouse XIII wrote:99% of all these proposed fits SUCK
this is not how I would fit my gallente scout
and thats not how I would fit out an amarr scout
Put up or shut-up.
While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
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Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
570
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Posted - 2014.03.17 00:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bunny Demon wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Scout Registry wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote: Do you even realize that in all my examples not only does the Gallente scout have better e-war but it also has better stamina, stamina recovery, and speed. Apply some logic to that.
Not sure how you guys are coming to the conclusion that Gallente beats Amarr in stamina and stamina regen. By my math, Amarr have the highest Stamina Pool and second highest Stamina Regen. Stamina Math (Ranked by Highest)Stamina,Lvl(1),Lvl(3),Lvl(5),Biotics(5),CmpCardReg(x1) Amarr,275,316,344,361,758 Minmatar,225,225,225,236,496 Gallente,200,200,200,210,441 Caldari,200,200,200,210,441 Stamina Regen Math (Ranked by Highest)Stamina_Regen,Lvl(1),Lvl(3),Lvl(5),Biotics(5),CmpCardReg(x1) Minmatar,80,80,80,84,176 Amarr,40,46,50,53,110 Gallente,30,30,30,32,66 Caldari,30,30,30,32,66 Just look at my four fitting examples on the first page to see how the Gallente scout can easily outpass the Amarr scout in stamina without sacrificing anything. Yeh um about that, the amarr can have 3100+ stamina with 460.26 regen I'd like to see a gal run that long
Why, the gallente can get EVERYWHERE faster EVERYTIME, without using a suit bonus to do it either.
While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
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Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
612
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Posted - 2014.03.26 02:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
Aero, did anyone actually manage to successfully complete the challenge?
While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
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