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Challenge: Someone give me an Amarr Scout fitting

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C0TS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 22	Posted - 2014.03.16 07:00:00 - [1] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Let's have some fun here. Someone give me an Amarr Scout fitting using http://www.protofits.com/fittings I will then quote your entry and show you how to make a Gallente Scout fitting that is simply better. Go. Listen, I get it you're not happy with the Amarr Scout racial bonus... I see that 25 times a day. The Amarr Scout bonus should be 7% instead of 5. I understand the Cal and Gal racial bonuses are superior to that of the race that you want to use. Don't sit here and try to compare the Amarr with the Gal and Cal Scouts - they simply don't stack up in terms of Profile (Gal) and eWar (Cal). Instead try and compare the Amarr and the Min scouts, and when that is done the Amare scout CPU/PG provide a better overall suit fitting. Is hacking bonus a nice things sure, its great in Skirmish and FW, but useless in Ambush. Is a NK damage bonus sweet, provides 100 extra damaged per swipe on Proto knives, pretty sure but when you consider NK are not a Min weapon then it brings,you to the conclusion will you have to skill into another NK type weapon later to match your Min Scout ?!? Its a serious question whether or not to spec into NK when you don't know is Min Knifes will be adjusted... So could prove troublesome indeed. Next, there is a serious problem with the Min Scout at advanced. You can see for yourself... Try to equip anything but a CR with a std cloak and it proves very troubling.. When you try to run NK which lack a PG reduction skill it's even more difficult. Now, is the bonus great for the Amarr Scout - not exactly but it's not as bad as the Min Scout could potentially be. Is the Amarr Scout role different than Gal and Cal, most Definitely. CCP is providing the option for a solid light infantry with good speed and stamina (no need for cards on a low) which can cloak. The suit isn't designed to be hidden like the Gal or a eWar specialist like the Cal so don't try and make it one, use it in the role it's meant for and it'll be better than any assault and potentially any Commando. Profits is great tool I use it to compare fits, maybe you've seen my scout comparison copy pastes but the Amarr stats on a basic cookie cutter build is quite solid. If you want a hidden or eWar type scout pick the race that gives it to you, don't sit and complain about how the race you want can't play the role you want. Simply accept it's role and like I said maybe its not as bad as you might think it is when compares to the Min Scout, especially at the advanced level suit.
C0TS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 22	Posted - 2014.03.16 07:03:00 - [2] - Quote Suit Layout & Bonus: Cloak Pro: 330(82.5)C 70(17.5)P Cloak Adv: 231(57.75)C 49(12.25)P Proto-Adv Capes= 25.75C 5.25P Cape Std: 40C 8.75P Shields Extender: 54C 11P Cardiac Reg Pro: 12C 8P Cardiac Adv: 9C 5P Kin Cata: 27C 15P Dampener: 33C 0P 25% for at 35 is 8.75 Damp Adv: 24C Enhancer: 26C 0P for 20% at 45 is 9 PG Pro: +14P for -24C PG Adv: +11P for -17C PG Reg: +8P for -14C Remote Explosives: 63C 10P Remote Ups: 53.55C 10P Six Kin Sub: 57C 10P Six Kin Ups: 48.45C 7.5P Ash Sub: 68C 11P Ash Ups: 57.8C 8.25P New Sub: 61C 12P New Sub Ups: 51.85C 9P K5: 40C 5P K5 Ups: 34C 3.75P Nova Knife: 48C 8P Flay lock 45C 2P Pistol 63C 10P or 58C 8P Weapon Combos: Six Kin + Ash Sub: 107C 17P Six Kin Sub + Remotes: 103C 19P Ash Sub + Remotes: 112C 19P Six Kin + New Sub: 101C 17P Ash Sub + New Sub: 109C 17P 1 complex of: Extender + Cardiac + Kin + Cloak = 175.5C 51.5P Complex Cardiac 12C vs 9C & Adv 8P 5P Possible Builds for each class at Adv: Cal Adv: 317C 59P - Adv Cloak: 2 complex extenders, 1 complex enhancer, 1 complex Cardiac, 1 complex Dampener -> 81C 16P (slow) 332 Gal Adv: 300C 67P - Adv Cloak: 2 complex extenders, 1 complex Cardiac, 1 complex Kin, 1 PG Mod --> 71C 32P (low PG) 332 --> 95C 18P before PG mod 56C 25P for 2 Kins and PG mod or 18P on weapons and use CPU over PG mod Min Adv: 332C 55P - Adv Cloak: 2 complex extenders, 1 complex enhancer, 1 complex Cardiac, 1 complex Dampener --> 96C 9P (slow) 302 Amar Adv 309C 63P - Adv Cloak: 2 complex extenders, complex Kin Cata, complex Dampener, PG mod --> 69C 27P (low stamina) 362 --> 93 13 before PG mod 63C 12P for 2 Kins and PG mod or Std cloak could give PG needed to get both Weapons Cal: 130S 70A 5% scan radius/precision (complex enhancer, basic range amp) Precision: 45-11.25= 33.75-9 =24.75 Scout Adv: 262S 70A (332) +1H C/1 3H 2L: 153/244C 30/46P + 1H C/P Ups + Cape Pro: 235.5/317C 47.5/59P +1H C/P Ups + Cape Adv: 209.75/317C 42.25/59P +1H -> 107C 16P +1H or 81c 16P w/Enhance -OR- Scout Adv: 328S 70A (398) C/1 3H: 206/244C 41/46P C/P Ups + Cape Pro: 289.5/317C 58.5/59P C/P Ups + Cape Adv: 263.75/317C 53.25/59P --> 53C 5P Scout Pro: 262S 70A (332) CK 4H 2L: 116/348C 30/66P + 2H C/P Ups + Cape Pro: 198.5/452C 47.5/91P +2H -OR- Scout Pro: 328S 70A (398) CK 3H: 170/348C 41/66P + 1H C/P Ups + Cape Pro: 289.5/452C 58.5/91P + 1H *** Gal: 70S 130A 5% scan radius/scan profile (complex damp, basic range amp) Damp: 45-8.75 = 26.25-8.75 =17.5 Scout Adv: 202S 130A (332) G/1 2H 3L: 180/231C 45/52P C/P Ups + Cape Pro: 262.5/300C 62.5/67P C/P Ups + Cape Adv: 236.75/300C 57.25/67P -> 63C 9P Scout Pro: 202S 130A (332) + 1L GK 2H 4L: 180/330C 45/74P +1L slot C/P Ups + Cape Pro: 262.5/429C 62.5/96P +1L Min: 100S 70A 5% hacking/nova knife Scout Adv: 232S 70A (302) M/1 3H 2L: 153/256C 22/43P +1H C/P Ups + Cape Pro: 235.5/332C 50.5/55P +1H C/P Ups + Cape Adv: 209.75/332C 45.25/55P +1H -> 122C 9P +1H or 96C 9P w/Enhance -OR- Scout Adv: 298S 70A (368) M/1 3H: 207/256C 33/43P C/P Ups + Cape Pro: 289.5/332C 61.5/55P Scout Pro: 232S 70A (302) MK 3H 3L: 180/355C 45/62P +1H C/P Ups + Cape Pro: 262.5/475C 62.5/80P +1H -OR- Scout Pro: 298S 70A (368) MK 3H: 234/355C 56/62P C/P Ups + Cape Pro 3H: 316.5/475C 73.5/80P Amar: 60S 170A 5% stamina regen/max stamina (less than basic regulator) Scout Adv: 192S 170A (362) A/1 2H 3L: 180/238C 45/49P C/P Ups + Cape Pro: 262.5/309C 62.5/63P C/P Ups + Cape Adv: 236.75/309C 57.25/63P -> 72C 5P Scout Pro: 192S 170A (362) + 1L AK 2H 4L: 180/340C 45/70P +1L slot C/P Ups+ Cape on Pro: 262.5/442C 62.5/91P +1L There. You can see the PG of a Min Adv suit is very very problematic. It forces you to run a CR or a adv tier SMG which is pathetic. As well as it only can run a std cloak which should be a huge disadvantage for it.
C0TS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 22	Posted - 2014.03.16 07:15:00 - [3] - Quote How about you take some of that logic and apply it to not picking the Amarr scout. If you think a class is inferior than don't choose it. But the Amarr Scouts role isn't an eWar specialist or a low profile scout. If you want to use your slots for it go ahead, but you can STFU about any logic you have. The stats are the stats, and the racial bonus is set for 1.8. if you don't like the racial bonus of Amarr Scout then pick another scout. But no, all you do is offer up OP ideas and ***** about how the Amarr scout should be the best cause you like Amarr. Grow up Peter Pan, if you don't like something than don't pick it. No one is making you pick it. There are plenty of good builds for a Amarr Advance Scout. Maybe they don't have an eWar or Profile racial bonus but their bonus is not horrible, like some make it out to be.
C0TS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 23	Posted - 2014.03.16 07:37:00 - [4] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Ok guys. So far I did four examples. On all examples the Gallente scout was able to have better stamina and stamina regen, be faster (or in one case just a 0.04 slower), have better armor repair rate, have better scan radius, and at most only lose out on about 35 EHP in exchange for all these benefits. Have I done my job? Can you guys see the pattern I am using to convert Amarr fits into better Gallente fits? Can all those people who say "Stop complaining when the suit isn't even released" please shut up now. The people complaining about the Amarr scout suit do so with valid reason. Are the Gal and Cal Scouts better, sure. Are the Gal and Cal Heavies better, sure. It doesn't mean the Amarr Scout is this useless suit you are all forced to pick. The racial bonus isn't the best but neither are the assault bonuses. The suit is fine and those who choose to pick it will do fine with it because its not as useless as you're making or want people to believe. 2 extenders (c) on Amarr is 458 eHP - plenty to be a light assault or lose an extender an still have plenty of eHP while giving you more flexibility. 3 lows - toss a Dampener (c) and you're 23.6 or 17.7 with cloak. 17.7 is good enough to get under anything but a Proto 4 precision scanning Cal Scout and a Proto scanning Gal logi... Then again no other Scout but the Gal is better. So you're the same as 3 of the 4. Might I mention that because of slot load out of Amarr 3 lows at Adv its much easier to fit a Dampener than the Cal or the Min - who would leave only 1 low left. With 2 spare lows you can do a lot, the Amarr is a very flexible build. Toss anything from a Kinda Cat to a Reactive Plate to another a Dampener if you choose. There is no need for a Cardiac and the suit CPU/PG is highly desirable compared to the Min Adv suit. Amarr Scout isn't as good as the Gal and the a Cal Scout might be the most useful suit in 1.8 but it doesn't mean the Amarr is some piece of **** suit. Its load out is nice, its CPU/PG is nice and its role can be flexible and devastating.
C0TS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 23	Posted - 2014.03.16 07:48:00 - [5] - Quote Proto CR/Mag Sec Remotes, Adv Cloak 2 c extenders - 2(c and e) dampened with (c) kin cat and (c) reactive M8 focus nades 524 eHP, gives you the Dampening of Gal with one (c) Dampener plus of course cloak adv gets you under everything. Also proves, the armor rep. If you don't care for the rep there are even greater options at Proto for Amarr Scout. I'm not saying the Cal Scout might not be the best or the Gal scout racial bonus provides it with the ability to equip a nice card cat to provide it with better stamina or stamina regen, but the Amarr Scout is not a worthless suit. You don't have to choose it if you feel that it is inferior option. But at adv it is far superior to a Min Scout, and at Proto the slot lay out 2-4 is flexible, strong and can provide very strong fittings for those who spec into it.
C0TS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 23	Posted - 2014.03.16 08:00:00 - [6] - Quote I don't understand with this "race to the destination" - call in a LAV and even fatties will beat two scout morons who are running to the point. The idea of using 3-4 kin cats is also ridiculous to the question of providing a fair and competitive build for the Amarr. At adv it is superior to the Min Scout and at Proto is slot layout 2-4 provides excellent possible fittings. I prefer always using 2 (c) extenders in high myself but maybe cloaks will change that. I don't value the armor rep of 4/sec but i do agree its a nice boost. The 4 lows at Proto can easily be used to get under any radar if you feel that is one option. If a Gal uses a (c) card and the Amarr uses a (e) Dampener they might not be on par but it doesn't mean they aren't better than Min or not a competitive or potentially devastating choice of suit. The Cal scout is a different story, based on its stats of only 2 low it has major drawback if its not slotted as a scanning master. It would require big slots at low to be used with dampeners making it far less mobile, no chance for a varied build, and has a low chance to have any sort of elite speed or stamina. Sure it can use 1 (c) extender and 3 (c) prec and be amazingly useful in a team but it won't be as good as the Gal or the Amarr in many roles. No scout will excel at all roles, yes the Gal slot layout and racial (c) damp help greatly but you can't argue that Cal or Amarr scouts will be terrible in comparison. Or for that matter the Amarr Scout is some tragedy and needs more, it's all in the way you play and its 2-4 will allow for a very exciting and varied play style. And for some who lack elite SP, a varied suit capable of being anything from a silent killer to a light infantry is an appealing option because spec'ing into multiple suits is not an option.
C0TS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 24	Posted - 2014.03.16 08:23:00 - [7] - Quote How will M Scout not be the best hacker is a stupid question. Might as well grab 4 hacking mods, come on, what a joke you are. It's also largely useless in Ambush, and when you aren't hacking or when objectives aren't requiring attention. If you plan on just running around to each cannon and not engage anyone you can be effective hacker sure. Again, like he Cal it has its niche. Its racial bonus is not probably as useful as the Cal or Gal but its on par with Amarr. Its the only class that really forces you into a specific weapon, if you don't choose it then bonus is useless again. So there far less flexibility that Amare can provide. Therefore Hacking and NK can be as "useless" as this Amarr bonus that you are so up in arms about because when you don't use the right play style or skill set any class can be sub par. So it could actually be more useless than this "disaster" you feel Amarr bonus is because you aren't using it as specified by CCP. Frankly, the 2-4 slot layout is better than the 3-3 layout on the Amarr which has to give it an advantage. If you want to be speed hacker, pick the speed hacking class, if you want to pick the eWar niche pick the Cal. Just don't complain about the Anarr not being on par build wise when clearly it matches up with Min, and can be a very very powerful suit. It's as dumb as the race to an objective over long distances - jump in LAV. At adv scout the min has a serious disadvantage over the other suits due to its PG. It might only be 3 or 4 lower but with the lack of a PG reduction for NK currently. since NK arent a Min weapon it could be disastrous later when NK for all races are introduced, there also a question of not using a CR, there becomes even greater PG concerns when NK are paired with a weapon. Yes, some run just IshNK but most require a sidearm (MagSec look like a great option). The CR best but outside of these using another primary isn't really a great option. The Amarr Scout if, you have to choose it, for some reason is no worst than the Cal (very strong eWar niche) and Min Scouts. Sure the Gal has a nice Racial Bonus and 2-4 slot layout is ideal but it's not so far an away better that you need to post 15 times a day about your outrage. The Gal being better is seen in Logi and Sents - again, the cal has a different role and in a team it can be a far superior option and far more effective in its niche skill. Is the Amarr scout a better option than any assault suit right now, with the cloak ability it most definitely is.
C0TS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 24	Posted - 2014.03.16 08:32:00 - [8] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: C0TS wrote: ...At adv it is superior to the Min Scout and at Proto is slot layout 2-4 provides excellent possible fittings. No scout will excel at all roles, yes the Gal slot layout and racial (c) damp help greatly but you can't argue that Cal or Amarr scouts will be terrible in comparison... Post a fit. The Amarr scout doesn't excel in ANY role, that's what the QQ is all about. The Cal scout will be excellent at hunting other scouts due to precision bonus and hit/run tactics with its excellent shield mechanics that allow for a good shield buffer that won't affect mobility. I did post a fit, i posted 2 options. The Cal is eWar, the Gal is stealth, are these more desirable for most fits yes. Is hacking and NK as desirable, no. Hacking is a niche, NK is even a greater niche and as stated above potentially problematic. Is the light infantry with a cape not a niche, it has potential to shame all assault suits while cloaking. It has the ability to adapt to be just as affective in many different roles and at the advanced scout suit it greatly outshines its Min counterpart. Isn't adaptive play a very very good thing, sure Gal can be most everything too, but no Cal and not Min. It seems the argument is more about the 4/sec armor regen and not the stamina bonus. It's not a terrible bonus, it might not be what you want specifically buts its not bad. Many will use the Amarr scout and be great, if you need to use it because you're forced too there are plenty of good options. Amare Scouts aren't in a black hole as you make it seem, they are a good jack of all trades and as previously mentioned someone with limited SP can use this class to have a multitude of build options.
C0TS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 24	Posted - 2014.03.16 08:55:00 - [9] - Quote Adv: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/0/752 or http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/0/294 http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/0/295 http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/0/413 http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/0/294 Pro: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/0/296 http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/0/297 http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/0/414 http://www.protofits.com/fittings/index/0/753 Here are some quick fits. Like I said, Min Adv suits are terrible as you can see by the cookie cutter copy paste comparison I did myself. There are so so many Amarr options. Its 4;45 am so here's a quick co parish via pro fits website.
C0TS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 26	Posted - 2014.03.16 09:09:00 - [10] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Anyone bothered shoving a cloak on and working with what's left? Yea, I've done that with my own copy paste builds. Personally, I prefer 2 (c) extenders on all scouts. It might change with the cloak and the higher TKK but CR/RR and even some elite Breach HMG can have a produce a rapid kill if you make a mistske. So extenders were a mandatory, I then compared builds with a Kin Cat + std/adv cloaks for each class. Then subtracted Dampeners to the build to give me final numbers, total eHP in a cookie cutter build. i wanted to see how much was left because I didnt want to use a CR, i wanted to maybe use a dual SMG approach. But for Min scout in particular its very hard to get away from k5/CR due to low PH output. You can't expect the Amarr scout to be a Cal scout or a Gal scout or even excellent at the niche of a Min scout. So it doesn't have the greatest racial bonus, but the racial bonus is effective across all possible build varieties. The Min Scout, not versatile and it makes you use a specific weapon and hacking speed isn't always best secondary racial bonus either (just a restrictive niche). The Cal has 2 lows, very restrictive and problematic unless you're again being a specific scanning running scout (a restrictive niche). The Gal has more variation, a nice armor rep but not required in a Amarr build, it also has nice dampening but again the Amarr slots can produce same output if you want to play that way. Gal scouts are very nice but Amarr are so so varied. I could make many many type of builds for the many types of battles and battle conditions you face in a match. The Gal can be changed up as well but Amarr will put assault class to shame and its a great suit and shouldn't be so highly criticized. Just because youre forced to choose it and its not OP, and you want some kind of OP racial option to excel. The suit will be great and excel in the hands of those who are adaptive and can chose the right role and play style to suit their specific build. There are many strong builds and just because it doesnt have a niche doesnt mean its not good, and this backlash of stamina being a bad racial bonus isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

C0TS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 27	Posted - 2014.03.16 19:05:00 - [11] - Quote http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/0/752 Vs. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/0/294 Both get under everyone's radar when cloak is on. Amarr stamina bonus and recovery out does the Gal. Both have equipped the same weapon, sidearm and two equipment slots. I know you like the repair armor, so the Gal uses a ferro vs Ama using a reactive to give less armor rep. It's basically trading 16 extra eHP, 0.2 shield regen, better stamina regen rate and 100 stamina for 3/sec armor rep, better scan radius and 0.2 speed. The two classes share the same load out (2-4) Gal comes with an extra low Dampener (c) while the Ama comes with a a Cardiac (s), if you give each that trade off the only difference really is Gal radius was greater to begin with due to its more eWar setup while the Ama crushes it in stamina and regen, which means its bonus is working. The marginal 0.2 here and there means the suits are even, its not much difference. The gal, like the Cal excel, at a certain thing. The Ama can excel at a variety of things. Now if you used the Min and Cal and wanted to play the same games, copy the Gal and its specialization... They don't even come close. Cal and Min would require both its low's to stay hidden, a serious disadvantage. Play each class to its strengths, trying to take one class and make it another isn't the point... However, if you wanted to do that the Amarr scout would be a very good option to be able to play the adapt game. It can be as good as the Gal (as shown above) in staying hidden, it can be a better light infantry, and compared to Min and Cal it blows them out of the water in many many type of builds. If you want to run from MCC to objective use a LAV - even a heavy is going to best you there if you run. If you want to play the eWar game, get someone in your squad with a scanner or spec into Cal scout or Gal logi. The Amarr suit is fine, if you want to see how poorly the Min adv Scout stacks up vs Amarr and Gal it's not even close to how well the Amarr and Gal are to each other. The difference is marginal at best and isn't that what everyone wants, some sort of balance to the classes? Now, because you feel like you have to spec into a class and feel like you have to somehow act like the Gal at the same time you have put yourself in a corner and are trying to get the best for your class. But as shown, the Amare stacks up against the Gal. Are these ideal builds, no because gal will be rocking kin cat and prob not armor while i wouldn't worry about the repair rate and would use kin cats on Amar also. But that produces a greater gap in eHP but makes the rep difference 4 vs 0, something you seem to have a problem with. Stop trying to fit one class into another, no1 is arguing about how all commandos can't excel with a RR, or how all heavies aren't excelling at shield regen because that what's that class niche is. And the Amarr niche is that it can adapt and excel at a lot of in he's and therefore will be an excellent choice of those with lower SP who are looking to play multiple play styles without needing the massive SP to spec into many classes. If you want to have a discussion about how 1.8 will be we first need to see how great cloaks will be. If the Amarr scout turns out to be a light infantry with high eHP (given the greater TTK) can run around forever and cloak, you might be forced to pick one of the top classes in 1.8, so don't count your chickens before they hatch because the Amarr scout could be a terror in 1.8

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