DUST Search - Thoughts on the Equipment Changes

Michael Arck wrote:

Arx Ardashir wrote:

Cenex Langly wrote:

The first is the "fix" to active scanners and what you call "abuse". Being blind on any battlefield causes serious death. Players who scan and SPIN to try to see what is around them should should not be called abusing the mechanic. Having a screenshot of the field is going to seriously break scanners. Much like reducing the splash damage of the flaylock pistol. No one EVER uses that gun now. And as such, no one will ever use the scanner. The cool down timers were the correct fix, but further reducing the functionality is going to seriously hinder its role. The battlefield is a dynamic place where people constantly move around, taking a snapshot of an ever changing field is just as bad intel as not having any screen shot at all.

No, it was definately bad for the game to have 360 scans that lasted for 15+ seconds, tracking everyone's movement (or non-movement) and to punish flanking manuevers by having someone's crosshairs already trained on your face before you even came around the corner.

As someone else said, this is a scanner fix, and not a nerf. They were never supposed to be 360 scans. They were supposed to take 1-2 seconds to complete the scan and then display all movement in whatever direction you pointed it in. If it was supposed to be 360, then they wouldn't have included the scan angles.

But that was the purpose of the scans though. It's rather silly to have a scanning equipment and you can't spin around to use it. I know this isn't it, but it likes telling Ripley and Hudson they can only snapshot with their tracking equipment in Aliens. You had the capable means to avoid scans at your disposal.

Plus folks wanted these scans. When scans didn't have WP gain attached to it, no one used it. The scannerinas weren't happening. When folks wanted WP gain for killed scan targets and CCP considered, people rallied for it, in which I was strongly against for the possibility of abuse. Well, it happened and now folks want it change. To me, that's kind of silly. Folks need to think beyond one small point to see the whole big picture. So scans will probably be rendered useless again...or maybe not.

These forums must be located in the Californin country side, there is whine as far as the eye can see.

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Cenex Langly D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 645	Posted - 2014.03.14 16:49:00 - [1] - Quote Dev Blog: http://dust514.com/news/blog/2014/03/equipment-uprising-1.8/ So I have a few things to comment on. The first is the "fix" to active scanners and what you call "abuse". Being blind on any battlefield causes serious death. Players who scan and SPIN to try to see what is around them should should not be called abusing the mechanic. Having a screenshot of the field is going to seriously break scanners. Much like reducing the splash damage of the flaylock pistol. No one EVER uses that gun now. And as such, no one will ever use the scanner. The cool down timers were the correct fix, but further reducing the functionality is going to seriously hinder its role. The battlefield is a dynamic place where people constantly move around, taking a snapshot of an ever changing field is just as bad intel as not having any screen shot at all. I do like the Drop Uplink changes. They were definitely way too fast. Trying to clear an objective with the thousands of uplinks surrounding it was nearly impossible at times when players who just were killed could almost instantly respawn. This should really help when an overwhelming force comes into an objective. My last comment is on repair tools. Did they really have to be gimped so badly! I mean... We all know what is going to happen here. No one is going to skill into any other suit other than Minmatar. Minmatar have the repair bonus. Amarr/Caldari have equipment bonus and Gallente have scanner bonus. Scanners are crap now, so why use Gallente, other than it's 4 slots (which the Minmatar have). Why use Caldari/Amarr the equipment is not vital in survival in the gun game and they both have 3 equipment slots... I forgot to mention cloaking. I do not like this at all: You do not decloak when hacking an objective or vehicle.... Doing an action should result in a decloak. I can smell abuse here from a mile away. For the love of all that is holy in this universe we call DUST, Please CCP, do not let any exploiting go on for longer than a week after this update is released. I don't think any of us can take this long term broken mechanics crap anymore. I know most of you will probably have some clever comment to write about this so I'll just reassure you that I probably won't read any of your responses for at least a week when a new Dev Blog is released and I have more to complain about =] Newb
steadyhand amarr TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 2570	Posted - 2014.03.14 17:00:00 - [2] - Quote I agreed to your decloke commit. Ninja hacking is easily prevent but fireing a few pot shots at it. Also if we need to clear the point we have to decloke to throw the nade or shoot. Clokeing will get us into the right place but once we spring the trap we will be gunned down if we screw it up "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 1078	Posted - 2014.03.14 17:04:00 - [3] - Quote Cenex Langly wrote: My last comment is on repair tools. Did they really have to be gimped so badly! I mean... We all know what is going to happen here. No one is going to skill into any other suit other than Minmatar. Minmatar have the repair bonus. Amarr/Caldari have equipment bonus and Gallente have scanner bonus. That is EXACTLY what CCP wants. "I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley
Awesome Pantaloons Lokapalas. 284	Posted - 2014.03.14 17:06:00 - [4] - Quote My only counterpoint is that the argument for decloaking while hacking is invalid. You have a warning about Depots, CRUs, and Objectives getting hacked. Just look at the one nearest you and you should find out whether it is the one. Reticle stills works, and so do grenades. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." -The Code of Demeanor
Sam Tektzby Better Hide R Die 439	Posted - 2014.03.14 17:09:00 - [5] - Quote Awesome Pantaloons wrote: My only counterpoint is that the argument for decloaking while hacking is invalid. You have a warning about Depots, CRUs, and Objectives getting hacked. Just look at the one nearest you and you should find out whether it is the one. Reticle stills works, and so do grenades. Exactly, there is still place for one or two grenades. Support - Tactician/Support Deteis - Orator/Logician BHD since MAG
Kiso Okami Militaires Sans Jeux 82	Posted - 2014.03.14 17:11:00 - [6] - Quote Quote: I forgot to mention cloaking. I do not like this at all: You do not decloak when hacking an objective or vehicle.... Doing an action should result in a decloak. I can smell abuse here from a mile away. For the love of all that is holy in this universe we call DUST, Please CCP, do not let any exploiting go on for longer than a week after this update is released. I don't think any of us can take this long term broken mechanics crap anymore. Uh, you do know that hacking an objective does show on the map, right? What this thing does is force teams to set up watches/guards near the objectives to prevent ninja hacking, which is what should be done in the first place. I don't like the way the cloak field works though, it's far too limited of an item to get anything of value done. If this thing is meant to work, it needs to give the ability to change the weapon and de-cloak when you fire or get hit. This thing should promote the use of equipment and knives.
Rizlax Yazzax Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 76	Posted - 2014.03.14 17:12:00 - [7] - Quote I haven't read the blog yet, sneaky forum usage at work, so sorry of I'm wrong. From my understanding of previous dev posts the term "screenshot" is only being used to illustratet they are going to be taking instant scans to prevent OP 360 scans. Surely any mercs scanned will still be tracked live for the duration. You say without 360 scans death will come fast. Death comes even faster to those that are perma-scanned. Plus we managed just fine before they were released, so if people stop using them because of the fix (not a nerf IMO), then looks like I'm at an advantage because I'll still be using them, spammable or not. Edit: So you start a thread bitching and moaning, knowing it will start a debate, then say you aren't even going to read responses? Makes me think of a toddler crying about toys and then running away when the patents try and explain/give their view
Viktor Hadah Jr Critical-Impact 3010	Posted - 2014.03.14 17:27:00 - [8] - Quote So when someone is hacking an objective you will not know where ethe scout is at, I'm pretty sure if I see a objecrive being hacked I would have the presence of mind to shot in front of the objective pannel. Selling Templar BPO's 250Mil Last of the BPO's(Click link) I feed off your tears
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 3037	Posted - 2014.03.14 17:35:00 - [9] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Cenex Langly wrote: My last comment is on repair tools. Did they really have to be gimped so badly! I mean... We all know what is going to happen here. No one is going to skill into any other suit other than Minmatar. Minmatar have the repair bonus. Amarr/Caldari have equipment bonus and Gallente have scanner bonus. That is EXACTLY what CCP wants. Actually, I'm dumping Minmitar Logi in favor of Amar and Caldari. The real power and points are in deployed equipment, not the repair tool. Equipment can service multiple teammates at once independent of your presence, while the repair tool is one at a time. It's the difference between running a company where you have multiple employees working for you vs. being an hourly employee. The Minmitar suit is the softest of the bunch so it's the worst choice for frontline combat where that fatty is going to drag you. Far better to fit it on an Amar suit that can tank some damage. The tool will never keep up with weapon DPS, so the repair rate doesn't matter much.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 806	Posted - 2014.03.14 17:39:00 - [10] - Quote Awesome Pantaloons wrote: My only counterpoint is that the argument for decloaking while hacking is invalid. You have a warning about Depots, CRUs, and Objectives getting hacked. Just look at the one nearest you and you should find out whether it is the one. Reticle stills works, and so do grenades. Spot on, +1. I don't really see an abuse scenerio here at all...just a matter of firing a quick burst or grenade toss into the OBJ. If i were you I would be WAAAAY more concerned about a cloaked scout watching you try to dehack and him skewering you with a Nova Knife. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero

Llast 326 An Arkhos 2410	Posted - 2014.03.14 17:42:00 - [11] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Awesome Pantaloons wrote: My only counterpoint is that the argument for decloaking while hacking is invalid. You have a warning about Depots, CRUs, and Objectives getting hacked. Just look at the one nearest you and you should find out whether it is the one. Reticle stills works, and so do grenades. Spot on, +1. I don't really see and abuse scenerio here at all...just a matter of firing a quick burst or grenade toss into the OBJ. If i were you I would be WAAAAY more concerned about a cloaked scout watching you try to dehack and him skewering you with a Nova Knife. Cutting down counter hackers is something many of us scouts already do without the cloak now KRRROOOOOOM
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 806	Posted - 2014.03.14 17:46:00 - [12] - Quote I stalk points in my "Fat Scout"...a CalAssault with complex dampeners and hack modules. I may have to take a hard look at getting into CalScouts. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Beck Weathers Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 768	Posted - 2014.03.14 17:49:00 - [13] - Quote Yolo spinning scanners got to go, if you want more scans bring more scanners. One equipment carried by one person should not light up a 200+ diamiter area of all (none scout) enemy movements almost perminatly if you keep scanning. These forums must be located in the Californin country side, there is whine as far as the eye can see.
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn 3430	Posted - 2014.03.14 17:52:00 - [14] - Quote Yea, I disagree with the scan nerf since the influx of scanners came when folks wanted WPs tallied for kills. When that happened, everybody got scans...then the "scannerina" as they say, was born. That's why I disagree, folks agreed to it and then it happened and folks complained about scanning. It's that constant flux that is bad sometimes. You asked for it and now you wanted it to change. Boo. The cloaked enemy hacking objective doesn't bother me. The letter will be flashing. I know someone is hacking it. As always, I will throw a grenade or just blast left of the panel. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Are you OUKH?
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 667	Posted - 2014.03.14 17:56:00 - [15] - Quote Cenex Langly wrote: The first is the "fix" to active scanners and what you call "abuse". Being blind on any battlefield causes serious death. Players who scan and SPIN to try to see what is around them should should not be called abusing the mechanic. Having a screenshot of the field is going to seriously break scanners. Much like reducing the splash damage of the flaylock pistol. No one EVER uses that gun now. And as such, no one will ever use the scanner. The cool down timers were the correct fix, but further reducing the functionality is going to seriously hinder its role. The battlefield is a dynamic place where people constantly move around, taking a snapshot of an ever changing field is just as bad intel as not having any screen shot at all. No, it was definately bad for the game to have 360 scans that lasted for 15+ seconds, tracking everyone's movement (or non-movement) and to punish flanking manuevers by having someone's crosshairs already trained on your face before you even came around the corner. As someone else said, this is a scanner fix, and not a nerf. They were never supposed to be 360 scans. They were supposed to take 1-2 seconds to complete the scan and then display all movement in whatever direction you pointed it in. If it was supposed to be 360, then they wouldn't have included the scan angles. Now is the winter of our non-content. Ghosts Chance's hero for 3/1/14. A manu dei et tet rimon.
Mad Syringe ReDust Inc. 190	Posted - 2014.03.14 17:59:00 - [16] - Quote Skihids wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Cenex Langly wrote: My last comment is on repair tools. Did they really have to be gimped so badly! I mean... We all know what is going to happen here. No one is going to skill into any other suit other than Minmatar. Minmatar have the repair bonus. Amarr/Caldari have equipment bonus and Gallente have scanner bonus. That is EXACTLY what CCP wants. Actually, I'm dumping Minmitar Logi in favor of Amar and Caldari. The real power and points are in deployed equipment, not the repair tool. Equipment can service multiple teammates at once independent of your presence, while the repair tool is one at a time. It's the difference between running a company where you have multiple employees working for you vs. being an hourly employee. The Minmitar suit is the softest of the bunch so it's the worst choice for frontline combat where that fatty is going to drag you. Far better to fit it on an Amar suit that can tank some damage. The tool will never keep up with weapon DPS, so the repair rate doesn't matter much. I have to agree, the min logi is terrible for the role he is supposed to fill with the rep tool! Actually gal and min should switch their bonusses... but that ain't gonna happen since it's against the lore... lol I'm really tempted to move to heavy or scout, since these have the better bonusses...
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn 3431	Posted - 2014.03.14 18:01:00 - [17] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: Cenex Langly wrote: The first is the "fix" to active scanners and what you call "abuse". Being blind on any battlefield causes serious death. Players who scan and SPIN to try to see what is around them should should not be called abusing the mechanic. Having a screenshot of the field is going to seriously break scanners. Much like reducing the splash damage of the flaylock pistol. No one EVER uses that gun now. And as such, no one will ever use the scanner. The cool down timers were the correct fix, but further reducing the functionality is going to seriously hinder its role. The battlefield is a dynamic place where people constantly move around, taking a snapshot of an ever changing field is just as bad intel as not having any screen shot at all. No, it was definately bad for the game to have 360 scans that lasted for 15+ seconds, tracking everyone's movement (or non-movement) and to punish flanking manuevers by having someone's crosshairs already trained on your face before you even came around the corner. As someone else said, this is a scanner fix, and not a nerf. They were never supposed to be 360 scans. They were supposed to take 1-2 seconds to complete the scan and then display all movement in whatever direction you pointed it in. If it was supposed to be 360, then they wouldn't have included the scan angles. But that was the purpose of the scans though. It's rather silly to have a scanning equipment and you can't spin around to use it. I know this isn't it, but it likes telling Ripley and Hudson they can only snapshot with their tracking equipment in Aliens. You had the capable means to avoid scans at your disposal. Plus folks wanted these scans. When scans didn't have WP gain attached to it, no one used it. The scannerinas weren't happening. When folks wanted WP gain for killed scan targets and CCP considered, people rallied for it, in which I was strongly against for the possibility of abuse. Well, it happened and now folks want it change. To me, that's kind of silly. Folks need to think beyond one small point to see the whole big picture. So scans will probably be rendered useless again...or maybe not. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Are you OUKH?
COVERT SUBTERFUGE PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 621	Posted - 2014.03.14 18:33:00 - [18] - Quote Skihids wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Cenex Langly wrote: My last comment is on repair tools. Did they really have to be gimped so badly! I mean... We all know what is going to happen here. No one is going to skill into any other suit other than Minmatar. Minmatar have the repair bonus. Amarr/Caldari have equipment bonus and Gallente have scanner bonus. That is EXACTLY what CCP wants. Actually, I'm dumping Minmitar Logi in favor of Amar and Caldari. The real power and points are in deployed equipment, not the repair tool. Equipment can service multiple teammates at once independent of your presence, while the repair tool is one at a time. It's the difference between running a company where you have multiple employees working for you vs. being an hourly employee. The Minmitar suit is the softest of the bunch so it's the worst choice for frontline combat where that fatty is going to drag you. Far better to fit it on an Amar suit that can tank some damage. The tool will never keep up with weapon DPS, so the repair rate doesn't matter much. I prefer my infinite use 30m, dual healing repair tool that allows me to see all HP bars in range. Have you used the Lai dai amid front line? it's a bukake of triage and guardian points...and when you can do it at 20-30m away it's plain awesome. Deployable equipment gets left behind when the battle shifts and then you need a supply depot or death. Mobile and infinite health seems like real power and points but that's just me. Proud Minmatar scout - Republic Merc 6/10 Immune to bitter/jaded vet syndrome Roll with the punches instead of QQing
Beck Weathers Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 772	Posted - 2014.03.14 19:02:00 - [19] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Arx Ardashir wrote: Cenex Langly wrote: The first is the "fix" to active scanners and what you call "abuse". Being blind on any battlefield causes serious death. Players who scan and SPIN to try to see what is around them should should not be called abusing the mechanic. Having a screenshot of the field is going to seriously break scanners. Much like reducing the splash damage of the flaylock pistol. No one EVER uses that gun now. And as such, no one will ever use the scanner. The cool down timers were the correct fix, but further reducing the functionality is going to seriously hinder its role. The battlefield is a dynamic place where people constantly move around, taking a snapshot of an ever changing field is just as bad intel as not having any screen shot at all. No, it was definately bad for the game to have 360 scans that lasted for 15+ seconds, tracking everyone's movement (or non-movement) and to punish flanking manuevers by having someone's crosshairs already trained on your face before you even came around the corner. As someone else said, this is a scanner fix, and not a nerf. They were never supposed to be 360 scans. They were supposed to take 1-2 seconds to complete the scan and then display all movement in whatever direction you pointed it in. If it was supposed to be 360, then they wouldn't have included the scan angles. But that was the purpose of the scans though. It's rather silly to have a scanning equipment and you can't spin around to use it. I know this isn't it, but it likes telling Ripley and Hudson they can only snapshot with their tracking equipment in Aliens. You had the capable means to avoid scans at your disposal. Plus folks wanted these scans. When scans didn't have WP gain attached to it, no one used it. The scannerinas weren't happening. When folks wanted WP gain for killed scan targets and CCP considered, people rallied for it, in which I was strongly against for the possibility of abuse. Well, it happened and now folks want it change. To me, that's kind of silly. Folks need to think beyond one small point to see the whole big picture. So scans will probably be rendered useless again...or maybe not. I want you to take one moment, and i mean one moment to think about why scanners have scan angles. What is the point of having a 60 degree scan angle if you can spin with it? why did CCP not just design it to have a 360 scan? because it was never meant to give scans 360! If you WANT a scan in all directions, wait of your cool down and scan again in a diferant direction. These forums must be located in the Californin country side, there is whine as far as the eye can see.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 1026	Posted - 2014.03.14 19:25:00 - [20] - Quote Active scanners will be pretty crappy in 1.8. Good thing I have already unlocked the uber-OP passive scans :)

Hoover Damn H.A.R.V.E.S.T. Legacy Rising 68	Posted - 2014.03.14 19:44:00 - [21] - Quote Beck Weathers wrote: I want you to take one moment, and i mean one moment to think about why scanners have scan angles. What is the point of having a 60 degree scan angle if you can spin with it? why did CCP not just design it to have a 360 scan? because it was never meant to give scans 360! If you WANT a scan in all directions, wait of your cool down and scan again in a diferant direction. There were two good solutions to the scannerina issue; 1. Increase cooldown time. 2. Reduce scan time (how long it can reveal enemies for once you've activated it) Either would've been sufficient, but it seems they did both.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 3042	Posted - 2014.03.14 20:46:00 - [22] - Quote COVERT SUBTERFUGE wrote: Skihids wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Cenex Langly wrote: My last comment is on repair tools. Did they really have to be gimped so badly! I mean... We all know what is going to happen here. No one is going to skill into any other suit other than Minmatar. Minmatar have the repair bonus. Amarr/Caldari have equipment bonus and Gallente have scanner bonus. That is EXACTLY what CCP wants. Actually, I'm dumping Minmitar Logi in favor of Amar and Caldari. The real power and points are in deployed equipment, not the repair tool. Equipment can service multiple teammates at once independent of your presence, while the repair tool is one at a time. It's the difference between running a company where you have multiple employees working for you vs. being an hourly employee. The Minmitar suit is the softest of the bunch so it's the worst choice for frontline combat where that fatty is going to drag you. Far better to fit it on an Amar suit that can tank some damage. The tool will never keep up with weapon DPS, so the repair rate doesn't matter much. I prefer my infinite use 30m, dual healing repair tool that allows me to see all HP bars in range. Have you used the Lai dai amid front line? it's a bukake of triage and guardian points...and when you can do it at 20-30m away it's plain awesome. Deployable equipment gets left behind when the battle shifts and then you need a supply depot or death. Mobile and infinite health seems like real power and points but that's just me. That's why I prefer Domination where I can count on the battle staying in one place, or on one heavily contested point in skirmish.


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