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Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 43	Posted - 2014.03.13 18:44:00 - [1] - Quote With the nerfs to Logi's in 1.8 the re-spec has given many a chance to get out before the boat sinks. It might not be as bad as the titanic that is 1.8 assault suits but I expect the 1.8 re-spec to hurt former logi's significantly more than former assault classes. With a suit and weapon re-spec, assault players will free up the majority of their skill points to be placed into their new choice. However, this is very untrue for logis who could have possibly 932k into drop links, 932k into nano circuitry, 932k into scanners, and finally 932k into repair tools. That is nearly 3.75m SP into drop suit upgrades that will be wasted. For those who do not have high SP, this results in a very wasteful and non-linear tree. Which in turn makes former logis turning to other classes as a significant disadvantage. Having lower SP but a linear tree helps close the gap between middle of the road players to veterans but this 3.75m SP doesn't help anyone. Logi's are too pin holed into a specific role in 1.8 and ths helps no one. There is no versatile logi capable of providing rep, ammo (which will be needed more in 1.8) and scanners. The role of being able to help in multiple areas is gone and therefore so should the majority of logi's leave this pinhole of a class. When you think of it 3.75m SP is a significant portion of 7-15m SP. Sure, those elite pricks with 28-40m SP can take 3.75m and just waste it but 1.8 is providing everyone with a chance to leave their last role behind and spec into a new race, provide chance at a more linear skill tree, or even clean up some mistakes... But logi's get ripped off, it was bad with new 1.8 equipment nerfs but now you don't even let logi's start over. I'm not here to say a re-spec wasn't a good idea because 1.8 is significant and changes the battlefield and introduces all suits...etc. I'm just saying if assault, commandos, heavies and scouts get to start over (most have very minimum invested into scanners, drop links, hives/needles, or rep tools) why is CCP ******* the logi users more? 1.8 is already a huge nit to logis why would you punish someone trying to GTFO of this class?
Nocturnal Soul Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2247	Posted - 2014.03.13 18:47:00 - [2] - Quote When was a weapon respec confirmed? Its alright everyone, no need to worry it's just an Amarr scout :(
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12222	Posted - 2014.03.13 18:47:00 - [3] - Quote Only Dropsuit Command is being refunded :/ Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Dauth Jenkins Ultramarine Corp 205	Posted - 2014.03.13 18:49:00 - [4] - Quote Yea, I want to switch to an amarr logi, but I only have lol 1 in drop uplink, and lvl 4 in nanites and rep tools. So I'm forced to either stay caldari or switch to minmatar to effectively use the sp I put in Sees prototompers... Sees blueberries start to snipe... Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 301	Posted - 2014.03.13 18:53:00 - [5] - Quote I guess we'll see if logis really do pull their weight. I think fewer people will be doing it, and if that impacts the game negatively then there will be enough QQing to get a change, if not, then we weren't worth it in the first place so nerfing us was justified. I've got Amarr to STD and Min to ADV. I'll keep them both but I'll probably get a scout and heavy to go with it before I invest more into logi. I might find that I am more in demand, which is cool. Because, that's why.
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2638	Posted - 2014.03.13 18:58:00 - [6] - Quote I dont understand how some things now getting a bonus which they currently do not have precludes a real logi from carrying around gear Just because a cal logi gets a bonus to his hives doesnt mean hes locked out from using a rep tool especially since the entire class gets a blanket reduction in equipment fitting costs thanks to the role skill But hey I could be missing something since I dont have all the numbers in front of me at the moment I'll start my own war, with hookers, and blackjack! In fact forget the war and the blackjack.
Havaru Fox Golden Empire of EvE 47	Posted - 2014.03.13 18:59:00 - [7] - Quote i'm just pissed that my caldari logi will be refused by squats, since the minmatar one will be the one who has 50% more range and i think 25% more rep power. but i can drop 2 nice hives (that one granade can kill) on a BIG ASS MAP, while the minmatar will keep there bonus (even if they run out of things to top) i understand that caldari dont "need" reps, since the caldaris use schild, but then give me a god dam shield transfer like eve logis have!
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 3032	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:01:00 - [8] - Quote You are right, the Logi role just got a lot more expensive. I haven't decided yet, but with most of he dropsuit upgrade tree maxed out I'm is a good place to continue. I might take the points I put into proto CAL Assault and go L4 in CAL Logi and Amar Logi. With a lot of folks abandoning the role it might pay more for the of us left.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 903	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:04:00 - [9] - Quote All I can say is, spec into what you want to play and let the rest take care of itself. People that spec into a suit or weapon because it looks OP now will be the ones crying for respec when it is nerfed later. Personally I think sentinels will be OP in 1.8, but I don't like being a slow moving suit and I hate the choice of only 2 heavy weapons so I'm not going to skill into that class no matter how OP it is. Plus, I fully expect they'll be nerfed by 1.9 or post-fanfest expansion or generally sometime down the road Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7356	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:05:00 - [10] - Quote Assault isn't even the titanic. It's more like... a fart. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514

calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 2126	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:07:00 - [11] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: I dont understand how some things now getting a bonus which they currently do not have precludes a real logi from carrying around gear Just because a cal logi gets a bonus to his hives doesnt mean hes locked out from using a rep tool especially since the entire class gets a blanket reduction in equipment fitting costs thanks to the role skill But hey I could be missing something since I dont have all the numbers in front of me at the moment all the equipments were nerfed so that the bonuses keep them on par with their current outputs.
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2638	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:13:00 - [12] - Quote calisk galern wrote: Delta 749 wrote: I dont understand how some things now getting a bonus which they currently do not have precludes a real logi from carrying around gear Just because a cal logi gets a bonus to his hives doesnt mean hes locked out from using a rep tool especially since the entire class gets a blanket reduction in equipment fitting costs thanks to the role skill But hey I could be missing something since I dont have all the numbers in front of me at the moment all the equipments were nerfed so that the bonuses keep them on par with their current outputs. Ah I see, do you happen to have a chart with the numbers? Id like to look at them and see if I should just abandon medium suits altogether now I'll start my own war, with hookers, and blackjack! In fact forget the war and the blackjack.
jerrmy12 kahoalii Pradox XVI Proficiency V. 510	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:15:00 - [13] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Only Dropsuit Command is being refunded :/ I would have loved it if my upgrades got rerunded for ultimate levek 5 everything Closed beta vet Logi, Heavy, Python, Scout.
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle United Brotherhood Alliance 344	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:16:00 - [14] - Quote Dauth Jenkins wrote: Yea, I want to switch to an amarr logi, but I only have lol 1 in drop uplink, and lvl 4 in nanites and rep tools. So I'm forced to either stay caldari or switch to minmatar to effectively use the sp I put in Equipment is still good with or without bonus.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 43	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:19:00 - [15] - Quote calisk galern wrote: Delta 749 wrote: I dont understand how some things now getting a bonus which they currently do not have precludes a real logi from carrying around gear Just because a cal logi gets a bonus to his hives doesnt mean hes locked out from using a rep tool especially since the entire class gets a blanket reduction in equipment fitting costs thanks to the role skill But hey I could be missing something since I dont have all the numbers in front of me at the moment all the equipments were nerfed so that the bonuses keep them on par with their current outputs. There nothing wrong with drop links or the range of reps now, there's maybe a tiny problem with speed of replenishing from Proto hives but nothing so serious to have 1.8 kill non cal logis who choose to use them. Scanners 360 was a problem what again that should be a fixable thing and not another case to nerf a logi's ability to be a jack of all trades. There was a need to make minor adjustments in logi's and CCP over did it. Now those logi's who want to get out of logi have a real problem and those logi's who want to stay a logi do too. Many logi's have at least Proto in 2 of the 4 equipment slots. Say you want to spec from one race to another based on you wanting to be more proficient at repairing since the other three suits will be getting a nerf. This hinders your ability SP-wise if you've spent SP on maxing other equipment and it hurts your ability to be useful with scanners, drop links, hives which makes you less useful to your team. I would have been okay if logi's somehow were given AA type boosts or keep repair range and drop links speeds the same and just tweak scanners and hives slightly. But a blanket nerf to a class and then CCP gives you one area of expertise while hurting you significantly in the other 3 is insane. I get it corp battles it helps to have a specialist but 95% of log is don't need a nerf don't need this blanket BS... Yet I've read many posts from elite players who support this bullshit. I guess with 30m SP you can do whatever the **** you want any any mistake in a skill tree doesn't matter but in order for the non-elite to close to gap on veteran players they cannot afford to have 3.75m SP wasted on nerf'd bullshit or in many cases this SP is pure waste if they are getting the hell out of the logi bullshit.
MrShooter01 Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 585	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:24:00 - [16] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: calisk galern wrote: Delta 749 wrote: I dont understand how some things now getting a bonus which they currently do not have precludes a real logi from carrying around gear Just because a cal logi gets a bonus to his hives doesnt mean hes locked out from using a rep tool especially since the entire class gets a blanket reduction in equipment fitting costs thanks to the role skill But hey I could be missing something since I dont have all the numbers in front of me at the moment all the equipments were nerfed so that the bonuses keep them on par with their current outputs. Ah I see, do you happen to have a chart with the numbers? Id like to look at them and see if I should just abandon medium suits altogether now Announcement:Feedback Request: Equipment Stats! Keep in mind this post is months old now, from january. They posted dropsuit stats around the same time, and those stats have been changed a bit in the new dev blog so there is still a chance that the planned equipment changes have... changed.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 43	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:32:00 - [17] - Quote MrShooter01 wrote: Delta 749 wrote: calisk galern wrote: Delta 749 wrote: I dont understand how some things now getting a bonus which they currently do not have precludes a real logi from carrying around gear Just because a cal logi gets a bonus to his hives doesnt mean hes locked out from using a rep tool especially since the entire class gets a blanket reduction in equipment fitting costs thanks to the role skill But hey I could be missing something since I dont have all the numbers in front of me at the moment all the equipments were nerfed so that the bonuses keep them on par with their current outputs. Ah I see, do you happen to have a chart with the numbers? Id like to look at them and see if I should just abandon medium suits altogether now Announcement:Feedback Request: Equipment Stats! Keep in mind this post is months old now, from january. They posted dropsuit stats around the same time, and those stats have been changed a bit in the new dev blog so there is still a chance that the planned equipment changes have... changed. Has anything equipment or suit stats wise changed? Well if the lack of changes from the suits which were released yesterday after months of complaining for a new cal assault and a new or improved amarr scout racial bonuses are an indication then i doubt the equipment has changed either.
M McManus 431	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:34:00 - [18] - Quote Wait, someone explain to me how the slayer logi isn't still going to be around after 1.8... ?
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 905	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:41:00 - [19] - Quote M McManus wrote: Wait, someone explain to me how the slayer logi isn't still going to be around after 1.8... ? I posted an math driven thing a couple weeks back that I won't repeat. But essentially if you are using the logi suit to forgo equipment and use all the CPU/PG for tank and a proto weapon you are basically making a slightly faster yet slightly less tanked commando suit without the neat killing bonuses that commandos get instead trading that out for logi bonuses you aren't going to use anyway. Also the brick tanked slayer logi only gets about 100 EHP than a similarly brick tanked assault suit, again with wasted bonuses. So the slayer logi can still be a thing but its a pretty pointless thing to be. So go ahead and slayer logi if you want to, but your SP investment would be more wisely placed elsewhere if killing is your business. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Onesimus Tarsus Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1551	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:41:00 - [20] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: All I can say is, spec into what you want to play and let the rest take care of itself. People that spec into a suit or weapon because it looks OP now will be the ones crying for respec when it is nerfed later. Personally I think sentinels will be OP in 1.8, but I don't like being a slow moving suit and I hate the choice of only 2 heavy weapons so I'm not going to skill into that class no matter how OP it is. Plus, I fully expect they'll be nerfed by 1.9 or post-fanfest expansion or generally sometime down the road I thought that if you specced into something because it was FOTM, the game sensed that and asked you if you really wanted to do that, since only FOTM speccers get nerfed into uselessness around here. Unless you're just *addicted* to wetsuit paperdolls...

MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle United Brotherhood Alliance 344	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:42:00 - [21] - Quote M McManus wrote: Wait, someone explain to me how the slayer logi isn't still going to be around after 1.8... ? There is another planned balance pass to address CPU/pg and slots.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2975	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:48:00 - [22] - Quote lolcpm Intelligence is OP
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 802	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:50:00 - [23] - Quote This is silly, everyone is probably invested in something that could potentially hurt them if they want to change suits/races. Anyone who has been playing heavy is invested in armor plates, if they now want Caldari Heavy they are pretty screwed. If they decide they want to go with a light suit well all the points in hmg/forge are wasted. People who've been using scouts are more than likely invested in dampening, precision enhancement, scan ranges...If they change to anything other than scout it seems like wasted points. Equipment will still be useful on any suit (unless you change to only a heavy.) It's not the end of the world.
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 301	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:56:00 - [24] - Quote I like the changes to logi and equipment. Yes, equipment got nerfed but everybody still needs it and the nerf effects everybody equally, except logi's get a bonus for one equipment piece. That is a bonus to logis. Right now, no one cares WHO dropped a link, only what type of link was dropped, but in 1.8 they will want an Amarr logi dropping links and a Min logi repping them. It doesn't mean a min logi can't rep, they will rep the same as everyone else and that is the way it is right now. There is going to be more need for hives and reps since people will be living longer, all in all, I think this will benefit logis. Fittings will be harder, you'll have to make choices about what equipment you use and have specialized suits, but that is kind of fun. Because, that's why.
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1835	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:07:00 - [25] - Quote A minmatar logi dropping hives will still be better than a non-logi dropping hives. Why? Because the minmatar logi will be able to drop proto hives (fitting bonus), while the assaults can't. Same goes for all other equipment. Logis logi-ing is more important than ever now, and each racial logi has a reason to use it that isn't about it's ability to fit into the slayer role.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 3229	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:14:00 - [26] - Quote M McManus wrote: Wait, someone explain to me how the slayer logi isn't still going to be around after 1.8... ? Look at the stats for assaults versus logistics and not just the one unique bonus each assault gets and tell me the logistics is stronger. The assaults have significantly more tank, stamina, speed and recovery than logistics. People are too hung up on criticizing the assault bonus to realize how much stronger the overall suit is compared logistics. I'll be remaining Min Logi and survival is going to become even more challenging. Adapt or Die // Republic Lance Commander // @ReesNoturana
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 43	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:18:00 - [27] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: This is silly, everyone is probably invested in something that could potentially hurt them if they want to change suits/races. Anyone who has been playing heavy is invested in armor plates, if they now want Caldari Heavy they are pretty screwed. If they decide they want to go with a light suit well all the points in hmg/forge are wasted. People who've been using scouts are more than likely invested in dampening, precision enhancement, scan ranges...If they change to anything other than scout it seems like wasted points. Equipment will still be useful on any suit (unless you change to only a heavy.) It's not the end of the world. Those who have invested in some bionics and want to go elsewhere won't hurt as bad as investing nearly 1/3 (3.75m SP of 15m SP) into scanners hives drop links and rep tools. These arent useful on any other class while some bionics can be.
SgtDoughnut DUST University Ivy League 464	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:18:00 - [28] - Quote OP seems to take up the Idea that if your suit is not absolutly AMAZE balls at something it should never use it. You really don't see the big picture here, every logi suit can use every piece of equipment, certain ones will be better than others, and yes min max on paper Minmatar and Gal logi look slightly better than the others, but you have to take into account their ability to survive along with their bonus. A dead logi is a useless logi.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 908	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:25:00 - [29] - Quote SgtDoughnut wrote: OP seems to take up the Idea that if your suit is not absolutly AMAZE balls at something it should never use it. You really don't see the big picture here, every logi suit can use every piece of equipment, certain ones will be better than others, and yes min max on paper Minmatar and Gal logi look slightly better than the others, but you have to take into account their ability to survive along with their bonus. A dead logi is a useless logi. This is true and this is why I am sticking with gallente logi. I think it has the most survivability of any logi suit.. It also depends on what you use the suit for, people who play a lot of PC may want to use Amarr logi because unless things have changed in PC uplinks are king. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.


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