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Video - Swarms are not weak they are broken.

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Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1583	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:25:00 - [1] - Quote As I point out in this detailed video, swarms do not seem to be applying damage correctly. The base damage is lower than the patch notes imply. It would appear that amour hardeners are blocking either 60% of the damage, or the 20% bonus damage to amour is not being applied. It could also be that the shield resist is being applied when there are no shields. All of these would have the same effect on damage. The cause is hard to determine but the effect is obvious. They need fixing and also a buff. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5662	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:27:00 - [2] - Quote Intriguing... AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3380	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:28:00 - [3] - Quote Nice Vid Judge! Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. I've got 3k likes, I'll double post if I want to dammit!
Sarus Rambo Direct Action Resources 49	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:28:00 - [4] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: As I point out in this detailed video, swarms do not seem to be applying damage correctly. The base damage is lower than the patch notes imply. It would appear that amour hardeners are blocking either 60% of the damage, or the 20% bonus damage to amour is not being applied. It could also be that the shield resist is being applied when there are no shields. All of these would have the same effect on damage. The cause is hard to determine but the effect is obvious. They need fixing and also a buff. Your my hero Judge. This sums up 75% of the forum posts.
Poultryge1st Da Short Buss 40	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:30:00 - [5] - Quote Great vid as always judge! This needs to be fixed ASAP CCP. No wonder swarms are so bad right now.
JIMvc2 BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 25	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:30:00 - [6] - Quote I agree. If you run proto gear, prepare to suffer the consequences. You've been warned.
Sam Tektzby Better Hide R Die 411	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:33:00 - [7] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: As I point out in this detailed video, swarms do not seem to be applying damage correctly. The base damage is lower than the patch notes imply. It would appear that amour hardeners are blocking either 60% of the damage, or the 20% bonus damage to amour is not being applied. It could also be that the shield resist is being applied when there are no shields. All of these would have the same effect on damage. The cause is hard to determine but the effect is obvious. They need fixing and also a buff. I remember how i was AA in MAG and that was hilarious, but here i basicaly just trying to avoid vehicles. Great videos. Support - Tactician/Support Deteis - Orator BHD since MAG
KatanaPT Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 579	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:39:00 - [8] - Quote "You have been Judged" Awesome as always. Tech Guard Recruiting Spot
Baltazar Pontain Phantom Universe Task Force Die Fremdenlegion 94	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:40:00 - [9] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: As I point out in this detailed video, swarms do not seem to be applying damage correctly. The base damage is lower than the patch notes imply. It would appear that amour hardeners are blocking either 60% of the damage, or the 20% bonus damage to amour is not being applied. It could also be that the shield resist is being applied when there are no shields. All of these would have the same effect on damage. The cause is hard to determine but the effect is obvious. They need fixing and also a buff. Excellent .... as always. Save my swarm! It is near extinction! Edit: I am a bit angry, that it needs a player to hint CCP on such a bug.
Archer Yorcot S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance 10	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:41:00 - [10] - Quote Looking for a blue tag on this one. This forum signature is OP.

The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 2416	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:46:00 - [11] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: As I point out in this detailed video, swarms do not seem to be applying damage correctly. The base damage is lower than the patch notes imply. It would appear that amour hardeners are blocking either 60% of the damage, or the 20% bonus damage to amour is not being applied. It could also be that the shield resist is being applied when there are no shields. All of these would have the same effect on damage. The cause is hard to determine but the effect is obvious. They need fixing and also a buff. Swarm launchers deal only 55% of their original damage against a unhardened dropship. This has beeing the case for ages and only dropships have that kind of resistance bonus. LAV's and tanks receive full damage from them but the dropship doesnt. Ironically the only counter against dropships are railgun tanks and forgegunners which you hate passionally. -First off what we need to get rid off is the 55% efficency from swarms against dropships (you basically have like 45% resistance for free). -Swarm launcher clipsize needs to be increased back to 4 -and most importantly make it a sidearm and not a primary weapon. i want to point out that i have brought this issue up multiple times previously but nobody seemed to care. At least now you have video evidence of this happening. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
Bax Zanith 78	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:50:00 - [12] - Quote so that explanes why I couldent even scratch an LAV. All this time swarms have been doing as much damage as an AR? I had to start using a plasma cannon because of a bug? I think I'll show this video to the next tanker that tells me "get gud". Apparently vehicles have been swarm proof this whole time, and knowing CCP, its going to be another three months before it gets fixed. I'd say walk in my shoes for a day, but you probably still won't understand.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7350	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:51:00 - [13] - Quote And here we are thinking the damage mod change is a major nerf to swarms. LOL. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1135	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:52:00 - [14] - Quote If you like, we can que for opposite sides of a faction battle while in chat in a separate channel so you can work out the rest of the math. I have prof 5 in swarms and can equip up to 5 damage mods on my proto suit. Lemme know. MAG ~ Raven
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12219	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:54:00 - [15] - Quote As for a buff they most certainly need more projectile speed. Hopefully this gets fixed soon, I feel so bad for swarmers :/ Baal Omniscient wrote: If you like, we can que for opposite sides of a faction battle while in chat in a separate channel so you can work out the rest of the math. I have prof 5 in swarms and can equip up to 5 damage mods on my proto suit. Lemme know. I can confirm that he has some mean swarms Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1602	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:02:00 - [16] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: -First off what we need to get rid off is the 55% efficency from swarms against dropships (you basically have like 45% resistance for free). -Swarm launcher clipsize needs to be increased back to 4 -and most importantly make it a sidearm and not a primary weapon. There is a big issue with your suggestions. They totally break the engagement model. Incubus and Pythons have a serious engagement model gap. This image is the engagement model of a Incubus (top) and a Python (bottom) if we have swarms doing the said base of 220, i.e your first point. Red is the swarmers health, Beige is the dropships health after each hit. Look and the 3D one. When the bar hits the bottom you die. See the issue with making just one of the fixes you propose? Just your first point alone will make the incubus useless. We need to fix it. but it is not simple. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12219	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:04:00 - [17] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: -and most importantly make it a sidearm and not a primary weapon. Puff puff pass Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7350	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:05:00 - [18] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: As for a buff they most certainly need more projectile speed. Hopefully this gets fixed soon, I feel so bad for swarmers :/ In my opinion, more projectile speed is practically pointless if the problem that Judge showed continues to persist. Shield resistance seems to still be applied to armor when there is no shield for some reason while a single militia swarm of 4 rockets supposedly able to do 125 damage each is only able to 300 damage total. Something is definitely wrong here with the math. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1602	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:08:00 - [19] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Something is definitely wrong here with the math. Or they snuck a base resist for dropships. I have yet to get suitable footage to do a test on tanks. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
ReGnYuM Escrow Removal and Acquisition 2468	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:13:00 - [20] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: The dark cloud wrote: -First off what we need to get rid off is the 55% efficency from swarms against dropships (you basically have like 45% resistance for free). -Swarm launcher clipsize needs to be increased back to 4 -and most importantly make it a sidearm and not a primary weapon. There is a big issue with your suggestions. They totally break the engagement model. Incubus and Pythons have a serious engagement model gap. This image is the engagement model of a Incubus (top) and a Python (bottom) if we have swarms doing the said base of 220, i.e your first point. Red is the swarmers health, Beige is the dropships health after each hit. Look and the 3D one. When the bar hits the bottom you die. See the issue with making just one of the fixes you propose. Just your first point alone will make the incubus useless. I am sorry why does there need to be an engagement window at all? I always assumed the presence of AV would ensure the result of a NO FLY ZONE. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I always believed that one of the roles of infantry was to eliminate Anti vehicle based infantry, not the vehicles themselves. You know cohesion between two different roles working together. My SP GAP carries me.

Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1608	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:14:00 - [21] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: .... the only counter against dropships are rail gun tanks and forge gunners which you hate passionately.. Please refrain from telling lies about my opinions. Being a dishonest person not help you make your point. I have an issue with redline rail tanks and their range given current map size. Not the tanks themselves and have made no comments on having a passionate dislike of forge guns, only their pre-1.7 range and the rendering difference that effects their viability. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1608	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:19:00 - [22] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: I am sorry why does there need to be an engagement window at all?. This is not an engagement window model. Its an engagement one. Flying a dropship into range of a swarm is an engagement. Sometimes a one sided one, sometimes not. The graph shows both options. Ignore the red bars on the 3D graph for the purpose here. Notice how the beige keeps dropping after the red one dies. Obviously not possible if the swarmer is dead. The graph shows what would happen if the dropship was to fight back AND if it was not to. The beige 3D line shows how many hits it would take to kill a dropship, with regen rates and lots more factored in. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Syeven Reed RETR0 PR0 GAMERS 464	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:22:00 - [23] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: As I point out in this detailed video, swarms do not seem to be applying damage correctly. The base damage is lower than the patch notes imply. It would appear that amour hardeners are blocking either 60% of the damage, or the 20% bonus damage to amour is not being applied. It could also be that the shield resist is being applied when there are no shields. All of these would have the same effect on damage. The cause is hard to determine but the effect is obvious. They need fixing and also a buff. Said perfectly. Good job, just hope the get the message! Gÿé Syeven 514 Application for CPM1
D34NOS MAZDA WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 378	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:57:00 - [24] - Quote CCP you need to get judge on your payroll. He will turn your game around in the right direction. Judge excellent video again.
Grimmiers 0uter.Heaven 444	Posted - 2014.03.13 18:30:00 - [25] - Quote Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't the formula for getting the damage before resistances be 75 x 140 / 100 equaling 105 per missile with no bonus? Edit: nvm :P SoundCloud Recruiter Link Pronounced Grim-e-urs
D34NOS MAZDA WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 380	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:49:00 - [26] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Something is definitely wrong here with the math. Or they snuck a base resist for dropships. I have yet to get suitable footage to do a test on tanks. judge we can run some tests on the oceania server if you like sometime. just send me and email in game
R F Gyro Clones 4u 1231	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:01:00 - [27] - Quote Personally I'd like to see a massive buff to swarms, along with the introduction of active defenses (chaff / flares). Then a large buff to dropship HP to help them survive against rail tanks and forges. Fixing bugs is necessary as well, of course. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1616	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:16:00 - [28] - Quote thanks for the test offers. I do need to do more. Dropships have a 15% buff against swarms. This is what is causing the unbalance with swarms. With tanks it just pure HP that break them, I need to adjust the video to add a few charts to make it clearer. I feel that I was not clear enough in the original/ Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 499	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:37:00 - [29] - Quote I wish I could give input based on the video; put it is atm listed as private :( With my knowledge and use of swarms, I agree w/ TDC on what swarms need. They definitely need the clip size back to 4, w/ 8 in reserve, leaving a total of 12 shots. This leaves it in the middle of ammo count b/t the of the PLC and the FG. This also will make the minimatar assault bonus more effective toward this weapon (though that suit is semi fubar'd anyway w/o any innate reps, but that's a differ story). That about all can give atm, if/when I see the video ill definitely like to add more .02 isk to the equation Closed Beta Vet Mordu's Trials Winner Original IMP
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1617	Posted - 2014.03.13 21:01:00 - [30] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: I wish I could give input based on the video; put it is atm listed as private :( I need to make the swarms 15% damage reduction against dropships clearer, so Ill redo a section. Post it again tomrrow Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight



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