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Obodiah Garro
Tech Guard RISE of LEGION
806
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 12:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
Thinking a lot about AV vs HAV and I think this kind of change would save a lot of tears and make a lot of sense.
Pre 1.7 I spent 80% of the time with the Swarm Launcher, easily my favourite weapon I would have lots of fun smoking HAV and DS and Installations and taxis. CCP brought in the hellish hyper nerf and instead of QQ I used the triple SP week to kick start my jaunt as a HAV driver and since then got a decent bunch of SP into and now drive a fully proto/complex equipped HAV and respectable skills in the hardener support buffs.
The 1.8 dev log came out, saw the nerf to damage modifiers and decided to pick up the SL for one last spin before it dies, and guess what? It still kills HAV quite nicely
Problem is ofcourse I have the SL tree nearly maxed out, using Wyrms with 4 complex dmg mods but Madrugers die easily and if you have the patience and a buddy Gunnlogis die nearly as quick.
Why the request? Any AV runner who dedicates his time to the craft will tell you, its no fun being turned into meat sauce by infantry, especially if you had your main weapons range cut in half and now you need to be put in twice the danger, after 1.8 drops and Swarms become useless against shields, who is really going to pick them up?
What am asking for is to make them more available for everybody to use, more AV on the field is a good thing and keeping the weapon viable is even better. Currently its not worth the light weapon spot as is.
Having gained a bit of experiance driving HAV I can honestly say it is my opinion HAV are balanced against AV with the exception of the god awful blaster that is broke as hell. Going 30 - 0 in an ambush is something not even worthy of mentioning as its so common and its incredibly easy to do so. If 3 - 4 guys had a SL as a backup that would cease to happen, instantly.
More guys rocking SLs as a backup means HAV would need to become more strategic assets instead of the bulldozer of infantry misery. I dare say good HAV will still be in the middle of fights and thats fine, but keep the majority of them pounding each other at extreme range doing what they are meant for. No need to change the weapon, just change the slot and make it more available.
Nemo me impune lacessit
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JP Acuna
Pendejitos Canis Eliminatus Operatives
94
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Posted - 2014.03.09 15:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Very good idea.
AV players in a squad wouldn't have to be completely defenseless against infantry, yet in a way the Swarm Launcher would "cost" an equipment slot that could otherwise be used for nanohives, scanners, etc, so can't turn anyone "OP".
Even a logi who runs SL would probably choose to also carry nanohives as the ammo is very limited, thus becoming almost a strictly AV oriented fit.
Sounds balanced to me. |
Balamob
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
11
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Posted - 2014.03.09 16:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
+ 1. Is not like the SL can kill infantry directly like th FG does. |
Dauth Jenkins
Ultramarine Corp
196
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Posted - 2014.03.09 22:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Obodiah Garro wrote:Thinking a lot about AV vs HAV and I think this kind of change would save a lot of tears and make a lot of sense. Pre 1.7 I spent 80% of the time with the Swarm Launcher, easily my favourite weapon I would have lots of fun smoking HAV and DS and Installations and taxis. CCP brought in the hellish hyper nerf and instead of QQ I used the triple SP week to kick start my jaunt as a HAV driver and since then got a decent bunch of SP into and now drive a fully proto/complex equipped HAV and respectable skills in the hardener support buffs. The 1.8 dev log came out, saw the nerf to damage modifiers and decided to pick up the SL for one last spin before it dies, and guess what? It still kills HAV quite nicely Problem is ofcourse I have the SL tree nearly maxed out, using Wyrms with 4 complex dmg mods but Madrugers die easily and if you have the patience and a buddy Gunnlogis die nearly as quick. Why the request? Any AV runner who dedicates his time to the craft will tell you, its no fun being turned into meat sauce by infantry, especially if you had your main weapons range cut in half and now you need to be put in twice the danger, after 1.8 drops and Swarms become useless against shields, who is really going to pick them up? What am asking for is to make them more available for everybody to use, more AV on the field is a good thing and keeping the weapon viable is even better. Currently its not worth the light weapon spot as is. Having gained a bit of experiance driving HAV I can honestly say it is my opinion HAV are balanced against AV with the exception of the god awful blaster that is broke as hell. Going 30 - 0 in an ambush is something not even worthy of mentioning as its so common and its incredibly easy to do so. If 3 - 4 guys had a SL as a backup that would cease to happen, instantly. More guys rocking SLs as a backup means HAV would need to become more strategic assets instead of the bulldozer of infantry misery. I dare say good HAV will still be in the middle of fights and thats fine, but keep the majority of them pounding each other at extreme range doing what they are meant for. No need to change the weapon, just change the slot and make it more available.
Commando suit, or put points into scrambler pistols
Sees prototompers...
Sees blueberries start to snipe...
Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
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Meisterjager Jagermeister
28
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Posted - 2014.03.09 23:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
You stole my thunder. SW as a sidearm was on my idea list too. If I could have a rifle and a SW, I would do it very match. |
Obodiah Garro
Tech Guard RISE of LEGION
827
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Posted - 2014.03.09 23:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Commando can do the job pretty decently and as awesome the pistol is its no match for any of the 4 primary rifles, plus your fit currently needs to be very weak against all types of fire in order to make it a viable AV, my request is so the weapon is moved away from light weapon role and is more assessible to everybody in order to make up for its current/future major short commings as a primary weapon.
Nemo me impune lacessit
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Beef Supreme 4
WEKILLING JOY
5
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Posted - 2014.03.10 00:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yes. Makes allot of sense when you think about it. Make the Swarm cost enough PG and CPU to make it so you can't run proto weapons. But not so much that you can't run standard or some advanced weapons. It would make scout suits pretty fun with the one equipment slot they have.
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BLACK MASK D
The Exemplars Top Men.
34
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Posted - 2014.03.10 01:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Obodiah Garro wrote:Thinking a lot about AV vs HAV and I think this kind of change would save a lot of tears and make a lot of sense. Pre 1.7 I spent 80% of the time with the Swarm Launcher, easily my favourite weapon I would have lots of fun smoking HAV and DS and Installations and taxis. CCP brought in the hellish hyper nerf and instead of QQ I used the triple SP week to kick start my jaunt as a HAV driver and since then got a decent bunch of SP into and now drive a fully proto/complex equipped HAV and respectable skills in the hardener support buffs. The 1.8 dev log came out, saw the nerf to damage modifiers and decided to pick up the SL for one last spin before it dies, and guess what? It still kills HAV quite nicely Problem is ofcourse I have the SL tree nearly maxed out, using Wyrms with 4 complex dmg mods but Madrugers die easily and if you have the patience and a buddy Gunnlogis die nearly as quick. Why the request? Any AV runner who dedicates his time to the craft will tell you, its no fun being turned into meat sauce by infantry, especially if you had your main weapons range cut in half and now you need to be put in twice the danger, after 1.8 drops and Swarms become useless against shields, who is really going to pick them up? What am asking for is to make them more available for everybody to use, more AV on the field is a good thing and keeping the weapon viable is even better. Currently its not worth the light weapon spot as is. Having gained a bit of experiance driving HAV I can honestly say it is my opinion HAV are balanced against AV with the exception of the god awful blaster that is broke as hell. Going 30 - 0 in an ambush is something not even worthy of mentioning as its so common and its incredibly easy to do so. If 3 - 4 guys had a SL as a backup that would cease to happen, instantly. More guys rocking SLs as a backup means HAV would need to become more strategic assets instead of the bulldozer of infantry misery. I dare say good HAV will still be in the middle of fights and thats fine, but keep the majority of them pounding each other at extreme range doing what they are meant for. No need to change the weapon, just change the slot and make it more available.
personaly i think av weapons would be fine if they becane equipment. because at the moment them being primary isnt working out to well, and they really need a buff of some kind like honestly have you tried the proto plasma cannon it feels like your throwing rocks at a tank most of the time (but i still love it ) |
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion League of Infamy
702
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Posted - 2014.03.10 01:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
No, because I think there needs to be a light AV sidearm separate to the swarm.
Selling dust codes!
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Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
818
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 01:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'm for it. Increase swarm speed alongside this, and I think that's as good as it's going to get with the swarm launcher.
Best PVE idea I've seen.
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Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1850
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Posted - 2014.03.10 02:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
This is pointless, and you gotta choose, AV or AI, not both (unless you're a commando). No.
'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
4536
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 02:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
If it works in Battlefield, Medal of Honor, Call of Duty and Titan Fall then secondary launchers can definitely work in Dust.
Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat
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Beef Supreme 4
WEKILLING JOY
7
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Posted - 2014.03.10 02:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:This is pointless, and you gotta choose, AV or AI, not both (unless you're a commando). No.
Than why do they do it in almost every other FPS that has combined arms combat? Battlefield, Planetside? Answer: It works! The point of this is so that people who want to be AV aren't completely gimped against infantry. |
Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
821
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 02:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
I think they'd be better as a single missile, equipment slot, and have the missile be the same speed as all the other missiles.
Best PVE idea I've seen.
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Talos Alomar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2128
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 02:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
The 1.8 sidearms and sidearm buffs could really help. The Magsec SMG seems like it'll be awesome.
Balls.
That is all.
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1pawn dust
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.03.10 02:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:This is pointless, and you gotta choose, AV or AI, not both (unless you're a commando). No.
Think you missed the point of the suggestion. Currently for instance all HAV can to varies effect destroy infantry while working as AV. A FG can target whatever it likes. Swarm launchers cannot in any way target infantry, its unique in the fact its specialization is hard wired.
In a 1 vs 1 SL vs HAV now you will need to be fitted in a suicidal style and still need to land 3 - 4 volleys to ensure a kill. If your playing a well hardened opponent then even if you toss your nanohive and spam missle fire, chances are you will not be successful.
1.8 will most likely see it completely ineffective against Sica/Gunnlogi, IMO it doesnt do enough to justify being a light weapon.
Changing its slot however creates a situation where all infantry will be able to deal with vehicles on a more even keel without having to sacrifice other aspects of their overall battlefield effectiveness. A lot of people carry scanners, why not a 1 clip SL for that inevitable HAV?
SL runners get the worst deal in the entire AV vs HAV/Vehicle debate and its getting worst. |
Beef Supreme 4
WEKILLING JOY
7
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 02:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
Talos Alomar wrote:The 1.8 sidearms and sidearm buffs could really help. The Magsec SMG seems like it'll be awesome.
Maybe... But even so, the current system just makes you way to ineffective against infantry to make any AV weapon a worthy trade off. |
BLACK MASK D
The Exemplars Top Men.
35
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Posted - 2014.03.10 02:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
1pawn dust wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:This is pointless, and you gotta choose, AV or AI, not both (unless you're a commando). No. Think you missed the point of the suggestion. Currently for instance all HAV can to varies effect destroy infantry while working as AV. A FG can target whatever it likes. Swarm launchers cannot in any way target infantry, its unique in the fact its specialization is hard wired. In a 1 vs 1 SL vs HAV now you will need to be fitted in a suicidal style and still need to land 3 - 4 volleys to ensure a kill. If your playing a well hardened opponent then even if you toss your nanohive and spam missle fire, chances are you will not be successful. 1.8 will most likely see it completely ineffective against Sica/Gunnlogi, IMO it doesnt do enough to justify being a light weapon. Changing its slot however creates a situation where all infantry will be able to deal with vehicles on a more even keel without having to sacrifice other aspects of their overall battlefield effectiveness. A lot of people carry scanners, why not a 1 clip SL for that inevitable HAV? SL runners get the worst deal in the entire AV vs HAV/Vehicle debate and its getting worst.
thank you, took the words right out of my month. |
Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance
4746
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Posted - 2014.03.10 03:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:This is pointless, and you gotta choose, AV or AI, not both (unless you're a commando). No. I've disagreed with some of your posts before, but this is the only sane post in this thread.
Just because a game has vehicles in it doesn't mean you need to equip every damn player with an AV weapon.
Hell, look at the new Magsec SMG. That thing has perfomance almost equivalent to a Rifle, and it's a sidearm. Just fit that as your sidearm on your Swarm Launcher or Plasma Cannon fits.
Problem solved.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Mossellia Delt
Militaires Sans Jeux
1026
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Posted - 2014.03.10 04:13:00 -
[20] - Quote
Obodiah Garro wrote:Commando can do the job pretty decently and as awesome the pistol is its no match for any of the 4 primary rifles, plus your fit currently needs to be very weak against all types of fire in order to make it a viable AV, my request is so the weapon is moved away from light weapon role and is more assessible to everybody in order to make up for its current/future major short commings as a primary weapon.
As someone who runs duel pistols on a suit, they are more of a match for the rifles than any non rifle. Can even drop a fully tanked proto heavy who runs a RR in 1-3 seconds.
Join the Channel - CPM1 Candidates - Get to know who's running.
Delt for CPM1
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Beef Supreme 4
WEKILLING JOY
7
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Posted - 2014.03.10 04:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:This is pointless, and you gotta choose, AV or AI, not both (unless you're a commando). No. I've disagreed with some of your posts before, but this is the only sane post in this thread. Just because a game has vehicles in it doesn't mean you need to equip every damn player with an AV weapon. Hell, look at the new Magsec SMG. That thing has perfomance almost equivalent to a Rifle, and it's a sidearm. Just fit that as your sidearm on your Swarm Launcher or Plasma Cannon fits. Problem solved.
I've said it once I'll say it again, you're gimped against infantry with this current system. The idea is that you can get the Swarm as equipment for a high enough amount of PG and CPU to keep you from having super high end gear. So now your good at dealing with vehicles, and can stand a chance against infantry. Your not the best at dealing with infantry, but you can hold your own allot better than before. |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
308
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Posted - 2014.03.10 05:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
So the Plasma Cannon, the Mass Driver, and whatever the Amarr will get, will also become equipment? So I could run around with a Rail Rifle, a Magsec SMG, and a newly buffed Mass Driver come 1.8? There is absolutle no reason to single out one races AV option like this.
That's Profilling, and Profilling is wrong.
It seems the bigger issue is that people don't like to feel helpless when using the Swarm Launcher, due to its inability to affect infantry, unlike the other two Light Launchers in the game.
If they made the Swarm Launcher a large AoE suppressing weapon, similar to the Plasma Cannon and Mass Driver, but over a much wider area to compensate for its multiple missile effect, people would be more likely to use it a fight. This would be in addittion to its normal AV capabilities. |
Meisterjager Jagermeister
30
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 06:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote: Hell, look at the new Magsec SMG. That thing has perfomance almost equivalent to a Rifle, and it's a sidearm. Just fit that as your sidearm on your Swarm Launcher or Plasma Cannon fits.
Problem solved.
I am hoping this is true! |
jaksol returns
highland marines IMMORTAL REGIME
13
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Posted - 2014.03.10 10:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
Obodiah Garro wrote:Thinking a lot about AV vs HAV and I think this kind of change would save a lot of tears and make a lot of sense. Pre 1.7 I spent 80% of the time with the Swarm Launcher, easily my favourite weapon I would have lots of fun smoking HAV and DS and Installations and taxis. CCP brought in the hellish hyper nerf and instead of QQ I used the triple SP week to kick start my jaunt as a HAV driver and since then got a decent bunch of SP into and now drive a fully proto/complex equipped HAV and respectable skills in the hardener support buffs. The 1.8 dev log came out, saw the nerf to damage modifiers and decided to pick up the SL for one last spin before it dies, and guess what? It still kills HAV quite nicely Problem is ofcourse I have the SL tree nearly maxed out, using Wyrms with 4 complex dmg mods but Madrugers die easily and if you have the patience and a buddy Gunnlogis die nearly as quick. Why the request? Any AV runner who dedicates his time to the craft will tell you, its no fun being turned into meat sauce by infantry, especially if you had your main weapons range cut in half and now you need to be put in twice the danger, after 1.8 drops and Swarms become useless against shields, who is really going to pick them up? What am asking for is to make them more available for everybody to use, more AV on the field is a good thing and keeping the weapon viable is even better. Currently its not worth the light weapon spot as is. Having gained a bit of experiance driving HAV I can honestly say it is my opinion HAV are balanced against AV with the exception of the god awful blaster that is broke as hell. Going 30 - 0 in an ambush is something not even worthy of mentioning as its so common and its incredibly easy to do so. If 3 - 4 guys had a SL as a backup that would cease to happen, instantly. More guys rocking SLs as a backup means HAV would need to become more strategic assets instead of the bulldozer of infantry misery. I dare say good HAV will still be in the middle of fights and thats fine, but keep the majority of them pounding each other at extreme range doing what they are meant for. No need to change the weapon, just change the slot and make it more available.
ARE YOU OUTA YOUR MIND!!?!?!??!?!?! so everyone can be a tank killer? great way to unbalance to game!!! (even more) I much beter idea is a av sidearm( that's actually a sidearm size! not bigger then a main weapon!)
Sacrifice is a choice you make, Loss is a choice made for you .
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
678
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 10:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
Beef Supreme 4 wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:This is pointless, and you gotta choose, AV or AI, not both (unless you're a commando). No. Than why do they do it in almost every other FPS that has combined arms combat? Battlefield, Planetside? Answer: It works! The point of this is so that people who want to be AV aren't completely gimped against infantry.
The more interesting question why should Infantry choose between one of these options but HAVs not? |
Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1853
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 10:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
1pawn dust wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:This is pointless, and you gotta choose, AV or AI, not both (unless you're a commando). No. Think you missed the point of the suggestion. Currently for instance all HAV can to varies effect destroy infantry while working as AV. A FG can target whatever it likes. Swarm launchers cannot in any way target infantry, its unique in the fact its specialization is hard wired. In a 1 vs 1 SL vs HAV now you will need to be fitted in a suicidal style and still need to land 3 - 4 volleys to ensure a kill. If your playing a well hardened opponent then even if you toss your nanohive and spam missle fire, chances are you will not be successful. 1.8 will most likely see it completely ineffective against Sica/Gunnlogi, IMO it doesnt do enough to justify being a light weapon. Changing its slot however creates a situation where all infantry will be able to deal with vehicles on a more even keel without having to sacrifice other aspects of their overall battlefield effectiveness. A lot of people carry scanners, why not a 1 clip SL for that inevitable HAV? SL runners get the worst deal in the entire AV vs HAV/Vehicle debate and its getting worst.
Maybe you use a sidearm? I don't know what to tell you, because I have no problems with infantry while using swarms.
'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
678
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 11:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
jaksol returns wrote: ARE YOU OUTA YOUR MIND!!?!?!??!?!?! so everyone can be a tank killer? great way to unbalance to game!!! (even more) I much beter idea is a av sidearm( that's actually a sidearm size! not bigger then a main weapon!)
Hmm not really swarms are already a joke for a primary weapon you need proto to compete with militia HAVs, and with 1.8 swarms will take another hit withe the nerf bat.
Actually this move would encourage what so many HAV pilots are asking for an option for AV infantry to use teamwok to kill or fight of HAVs...
To be honest in the current state the Swarm is not worth the risk of loosing a primary weapon, you are better suited with remotes to scare or fight of HAVs...
The MagSec will partly solve this problem but I guess CCP with nerf the MagSec very soon once they realize how OP this sidearm is...so the MagSec is only a short time improvement. |
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