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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
7290
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Posted - 2014.03.10 00:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
Never going to happen. Like the man in the men's warehouse commercials "i'll guarantee it".
Implementing a currency conversion system with a different currency to compensate will only complicate matter and the system itself. After all, back in 2012 CCP said that at first ISK transfer between Eve and DUST will be heavily taxed until the economies of both games reach near equilibrium. Once they reach near that equilibrium, taxes will be removed and the economy will be left under the control and whims of the players. That is part of their 10 year plan as announced back in 2012.
I have studied enough of the New Eden economics to know that your idea will not work and will only complicate matters further. Besides, according to the lore, ISK is the currency of wealthy people and capsuleers and DUST mercs are that wealthy to begin with. ISK is to Capsuleers and Mercs as a million dollar bill is to bankers.
By the way, rumor has it that approximately 1,000-5,000 ISK alone is enough to put a planet dwelling commoner into early retirement.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
7290
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Posted - 2014.03.10 00:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
DUST mercs on the other hand, in the future at least, will also have control of the economy and industry just like Eve players and use it to supplement their income.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
7291
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 03:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
I see where you're coming from OP.
If DUST were so separate from Eve Online, maybe this idea of yours would have been considered. But since DUST and Eve are not so separate from each other, the ISK system will have to stay. Besides, this will just distract CCP and divert unnecessary resources into something that favors a currency that Eve Online players don't even use or probably don't even care enough to know about it. Let's also not forget that there are now Eve and DUST players sharing corporations as well as faction loyalty points. We are just too connected at this point to consider changing currencies.
But I do agree that industry should play a key role in this. CCP announced back in Fanfest 2013 that DUST players will handle the harvesting of materials and then send those materials to Eve players where then they can be used to manufacture infantry gear. This alone will open up a whole new level of meta gaming and a whole new market for DUST players to thrive in. But knowing the complexity out that, it will take time.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
7294
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Posted - 2014.03.10 07:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
It doesn't matter at this point. ISK is here to stay and it's not going to be replaced by some currency that no one knows or even cares about.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
7295
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 07:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Galvan Nized wrote:But even unofficially the exchange rate does exist, what is the lore behind it? Why does ISK in Eve convert to less ISK in Dust? It's the same ISK right? Answer is, because it has to or else you break Dust (Eve is in no danger.)
It's not that ISK in Eve has to convert to less ISK in Dust, it's that Dust at the moment has no balanced ISK faucet or sink. We lack PvE and a Bounty System as well as the ability to buy/sell items to/from other players within Dust. And our only source of revenue is just grinding matches and locked PC districts which only a few corps have access to.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
7295
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 07:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Billi Gene wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:It doesn't matter at this point. ISK is here to stay and it's not going to be replaced by some currency that no one knows or even cares about. planetary currency is actually talked about in certain EvE missions.....
But nobody cares about it because it's not something they use directly. It has no benefit to Eve players other than just being lore.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
7295
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 07:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Billi Gene wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Billi Gene wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:It doesn't matter at this point. ISK is here to stay and it's not going to be replaced by some currency that no one knows or even cares about. planetary currency is actually talked about in certain EvE missions..... But nobody cares about it because it's not something they use directly. It has no benefit to Eve players other than just being lore. i dont understand you fascination with whether someone cares about something as a basis for its inherent value. I don't really care for or indeed particularly like gravity... but that doesnt change its fundamental role in my life and indeed in the continuing operation of the solar system that i live in and one could speculate that it does indeed have some say in the ongoing day to day of the galaxy and possibly the universe.... but to many people really care about gravity.... (?) you tell me...
I see what you did there. I'm not falling for that trap.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
7303
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Posted - 2014.03.10 15:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
The one important factor you're ignoring here is DUST players will also, just like Eve players, eventually influence market prices. If transfer of ISK is ever made from Eve to DUST and the wealth of players shoots up, so will the prices of items sold. The laws of supply and demand will kick in especially when its Eve players who will initially negotiate the price before DUST players finally stock up and compete with market pvp.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
7311
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Posted - 2014.03.11 02:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
deepfried salad gilliam wrote:they still wont allow exchanging of currency between dust and eve because it would inflate plex prices and potentially decrease the active eve players
Not yet. CCP confirmed they will allow transfer of ISK in the future between Eve and DUST but that will only happen once the two economies stabilize when merged. That won't happen for at least another year I bet.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
7316
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Posted - 2014.03.11 17:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Gyn Wallace wrote:Billi Gene wrote:To mesh the economies without breaking DUST beyond repair, will require an exchange rate and possibly a transfer cap. I'm not sure that's true, because the idea expressed here... Galvan Nized wrote:Logically you cannot achieve equilibrium between the 2 games. In Eve you fund super expensive star ships but in Dust you are funding only a soldier. They can never be similar in price because it makes no sense. ... is premised upon the idea that items in Eve and Dust have an objective value, unrelated to the time players spend to earn resources. Time spent by human beings playing each game is what drives the current exchange rate between Dust and Eve (which is about [Dust isk 1 to Eve isk 5] and [Eve isk 10 to Dust isk 1]). I presume that exchange rate is holding somewhat consistently because in aggregate, it is somewhere between 5x and 10x easier to earn an isk in Eve, compared to Dust. The exchange rate is currently driven by the ease with which isk is earned in each game, but can potentially be driven by the effect each game can have on the other. We're not seeing much of that effect on the exchange rate yet, except in the most wildly speculative sense. I've converted about 30B Eve isk and 5 or 6B Dust isk between the games, over the course of about 150 transactions. The unofficial exchange hasn't destroyed Dust. To the contrary, I think its fostered interest in Dust among Eve players, and interest in Eve among Dust players. CCP should build an official exchange that makes it easy for Dust players to take their saved Dust isk, convert it to Eve isk, buy a plex (sold to them by an Eve player who paid CCP RL money for that plex) and keep playing Eve after their free trial runs out. CCP should build an official exchange that makes it easy for Eve players to fund Dust corps while they fight on the ground in a way that help their efforts in Eve. PC should be more than a friendly-locked isk printing machine, particularly while Dust isk is so much more valuable than Eve isk. A currency serves a purpose and arises organically even in the absence of an official medium of exchange. When you argue for a second currency, its characteristics should serve the intended purpose. A second currency that has the same problem of being less wealth producing for a player's time spent earning it, doesn't resolve the desperate earning potentials between Eve and Dust. The only lore solution is to deflate the value of Dust isk toward parity with Eve isk. You can't do that with a second currency; you can only do that by causing price inflation within Dust to catch up with Eve prices. You want something like parity? Multiply every isk held by a Dust player or Corp, and every payout and price in Dust by x7.5. Bingo, price equality, and easy market integration. Lore can not overpower the actual economic incentive players experience.
Exactly.
Let's also not forget that the economy in Eve Online has had its ups and downs. Back in the old days, a Hulk use to cost about as much as 500 million ISK back when it was first introduced. But as the production process became more efficient on the part of players getting smart with their resources, the price dropped to about 150 million ISK. But then null-sec alliances got clever and managed to jump the prices up to at least 200 million ISK for a while before settling back down to 180 million but then market forces drove that price back up to 200 million ISK today. The same could be said for anything that is player made.
The prices of infantry gear will be largely dependent on a multitude of factors including, but not limited to, ...
1. Supply of the materials. 2. The cost of equipment needed to acquire said materials. 3. The time invested in harvesting said materials. 4. Demand of the materials. 5. Cost of materials required to produce the equipment needed to acquire materials. 6. Difficulty in accessing certain materials. 7. Market speculation. 8. Null-sec coalitions conspiring to manipulate prices. Remember OTEC? The Organization of Technetium Exporting Corporations which paralleled the real-world OPEC which is the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries. 9. Lone marketeers like me who manipulate the prices in a effort to corner the regional market or scam someone. 10. The amount of ISK in the wallet of every individual. 11. Rate of income (regardless of the means). 12. Rate of expenses (lost ships, redeemed PLEX, broker fees, etc.).
I would not be surprised one bit if Dust ISK and Eve ISK eventually equal 1-to-1 to each other if the market factors listed above are just right.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
7320
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Posted - 2014.03.11 21:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
anaboop wrote:I would like to see an isk reset, isk at the time being on dust is unbalanced due to PC and when CCP sold your salvage items that were outdated, some got mega rich while people that are new or didnt go for certain suits vehicles etc got left behind. I myself have 100mil plus, and even that is way to much. Once eve can transfer isk over, it will get even worse.
Its like real life, rich get richer, poor are reduced to skin and bone.
Hindsight tells me this idea wont be popular, but the only people whinging are the ones that got mega rich for stupid reasons, and are just to greedy to give it up.
Well, I ain't rich. In fact, I'm borderline poor with only 20 million ISK at the most in my wallet and I'm in a corp that no longer participates in PC and I'm a closed beta vet with BPOs.
The principle issue we are ignoring here is the lack of ISK sinks in Dust. In Eve Online there is a balance between the ISK faucets and ISK sinks. In Dust, there is no balance. We don't have broker fees, we don't have upkeep costs for districts, we don't have sales taxes other than the corp taxes which can be manually set to zero, etc. We already know that ISK transfers between Eve and Dust is inevitable. The issue here is how to setup that balance between the faucets and sinks before that time comes.
For those of you who don't know:
ISK Faucet = Income source like match rewards, bounties, sales, etc. ISK Sink = Expenses such as upkeep costs, broker fees, sales taxes, production fees, etc.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
7320
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 22:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
anaboop wrote:While I do agree with you, its far to late for it to have any effect, unless its based on a percentage of isk rather then a base number, therefore the more isk you have the more u have to lay down for certain things such as upkeep, or items.
No, it's not too late. As long as the Eve-Dust economic merger has not started, we have plenty of time to fix things up beforehand.
First, we need to setup a stable secondary market which will require PC to be fixed beforehand. Once that's setup, we'll then need to establish a series of upkeep costs for owning PC districts such as fuel costs and other tidbits along with setting up proper broker fees and sales taxes for any sales transactions made in the secondary market, high-sec production fees, Dust-to-Eve and Eve-to-Dust transfer taxes that adjusts itself on a monthly basis according to the market, etc.
The fees may be small, but pay them enough times per day and you will see them add up quickly. Once this is all setup, Dust will be ready to finally merge with the Eve economy once the amount of ISK in circulation is put under control.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
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