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Why Are HAVs In DUST?

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Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5432	Posted - 2014.03.08 21:09:00 - [1] - Quote Not saying they should be removed, but why are they here? They have no definitive purpose on the battlefield other than destroying other HAVs, which is circular. lolPLC [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5432	Posted - 2014.03.08 21:31:00 - [2] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: Becuase this is not COD, in real warfare tanks egsist and so does in Dust No they don't. Exist? Yes. But not egsist. lolPLC [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5432	Posted - 2014.03.08 21:42:00 - [3] - Quote ads alt wrote: Atiim wrote: Not saying they should be removed, but why are they here? They have no definitive purpose on the battlefield other than destroying other HAVs, which is circular. Support infantry, kill, deatroy installations, lock down an objective/defend it... So basically it's a Slayer Logi with 4 wheels and an 80GJ Turret? I ~~think~~ hope CCP could do better. lolPLC [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5436	Posted - 2014.03.08 21:51:00 - [4] - Quote Dauth Jenkins wrote: I don't remember the last time a slayer logi took out an installation.... anyways, to add my 2 isk, I hate tanks. I fly a dropships, and I get destroyed by them all the time. But when I sit back, and stop raging, I realize that tanks are an integral part of this game. Remote Explosives. lolPLC [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5439	Posted - 2014.03.08 22:10:00 - [5] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Agreed......but for the most part I feel like aspects in game that would benefit from the use of HAV simply aren't there.... In many historical conflicts HAV have been able to clear that's through urban terrain....yet dust 514 HAV cannot even get past small hand rails.... They also mounted large cannon for anti vehicle and positional fire power and an armoured frame. My personal interpretation of what HAV should be is durable platforms for ground based anti vehicle fire power and anti position fire power. As such these HAV would be susceptible to infantry units closing the distance and making use of AV grenades, RE, or at longer ranges simply making use of cover to launch AV projectiles and would require gunners in their seats, and on ground infantry support to last out engagements. HAV need to be less of a sledge hammer and more of a spear. Also remove and an all blaster turrets. I hate them and they need to die a terrible death. LONG LIVE THE 80GJ HEAVY PLASMA CANNON! My idea for what an HAV should be is basically a Missile or Railgun turret with a Mobile CRU, kind of like an APC I'm not too sure how CCP would create an 80GJ Plasma Cannon though. lolPLC [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5439	Posted - 2014.03.08 22:13:00 - [6] - Quote Dauth Jenkins wrote: I believe what were getting at here is that tanks, right now, are doing their role.... they are just too good at it Not quite. HAVs don't really have a unique role, and from the responses I've gathered they are either: 1. A Mega Dropsuit 2. A Slayer Logi with 4 Wheels and an 80GJ Turret 3. Cosmetic. At first I thought it was just me, but I'm glad to see that others believe that the HAV needs a role change. lolPLC [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5439	Posted - 2014.03.08 22:18:00 - [7] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: The whole flow of battle in this game is circular, as in merry-go-round. Why do carnivals have rigged games? Actually, the flow of battle in this game is a set of different roles and niches which revolve around each-other. It's not circular, it's spherical. Carnivals have rigged games because they are cheap and allow for profit and success with theoretically no risk whatsoever. While that does describe HAVs in it's current state, that should not be present in any role. lolPLC [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5439	Posted - 2014.03.08 22:34:00 - [8] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: If a tank cant **** up infantry what do we have tanks for? could an LAV do it? lolno So then we have tanks just for taking out tanks but if no tanks are out then we dont need tanks which makes them pointless and i get a 20mil respec and put it into FOTM suit and weapon for the rest of my days I currently aim with my blaster, it actually works and so does hit detection, if i dont get that little dot to go red i dont get kills, how much more skill does it need? do you want me to have a swamr launcher turret which locks onto infantry and kills then around corners? A Swarm Launcher is no longer capable of turning a corner. Swarm Launchers require the following: Timing Positioning Situational Awareness "Gun Game" (Unless you want to be insta-killed by a rifle user) Ability to predict flight / movement path of vehicles 80GJ Blasters however, are hit-scan weapons, and simply pressing R1 while the reticule is red guarantees that you will get a hit. Couple that with the fact that Hardners and Armor Repairers remove the need for almost all situational awareness, and you've got yourself a plentiful helping of EZ-Mode. In Uprising 1.7, Swarm Launchers literally require more skill than using an HAV. inb4 You going on a baseless tangent about how Swarm Launchers are actually EZ-Mode and how HAVs are the most talent intensive thing in DUST 514 lolPLC [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5446	Posted - 2014.03.09 00:56:00 - [9] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: A Swarm Launcher is no longer capable of turning a corner. Swarm Launchers require the following: Timing Positioning Situational Awareness "Gun Game" (Unless you want to be insta-killed by a rifle user) Ability to predict flight / movement path of vehicles 80GJ Blasters however, are hit-scan weapons, and simply pressing R1 while the reticule is red guarantees that you will get a hit. Couple that with the fact that Hardners and Armor Repairers remove the need for almost all situational awareness, and you've got yourself a plentiful helping of EZ-Mode. In Uprising 1.7, Swarm Launchers literally require more skill than using an HAV. inb4 You going on a baseless tangent about how Swarm Launchers are actually EZ-Mode and how HAVs are the most talent intensive thing in DUST 514 Atiim you know for a fact swarms don't require the level of skill you claim they do. I am not trying to get into a discussion between AV and Tanks.....but you don't have a predict movement paths with a weapon that fires and locks the rounds for you, you also do not need gun game to make use of any weapon that is fire and forget. Don't presume additionally that these remaining "skills" are not universal to all weapons and aspects of FPS games. But I see your point and can accept that. I have to disagree. You do have to predict the vehicle's movement paths, because the Swarms have significantly slow travel time, and again your Swarm won't turn a corner or evade obstacles, so once the pilot decides to take cover your Swarms are guaranteed to miss. You do need gun-game. Or would you like to explain how easy it is to fight people when your only defense is a sidearm with a range that's less than half someone's optimal? Those who use hitscan weapons should not be talking about fire and forget. Still yet to find another role that forces me into the eHP of a Light Frame, with less than half their AI capability. lolPLC [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5447	Posted - 2014.03.09 01:08:00 - [10] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: If a tank cant **** up infantry what do we have tanks for? could an LAV do it? lolno So then we have tanks just for taking out tanks but if no tanks are out then we dont need tanks which makes them pointless and i get a 20mil respec and put it into FOTM suit and weapon for the rest of my days I currently aim with my blaster, it actually works and so does hit detection, if i dont get that little dot to go red i dont get kills, how much more skill does it need? do you want me to have a swamr launcher turret which locks onto infantry and kills then around corners? A Swarm Launcher is no longer capable of turning a corner. Swarm Launchers require the following: Timing Positioning Situational Awareness "Gun Game" (Unless you want to be insta-killed by a rifle user) Ability to predict flight / movement path of vehicles 80GJ Blasters however, are hit-scan weapons, and simply pressing R1 while the reticule is red guarantees that you will get a hit. Couple that with the fact that Hardners and Armor Repairers remove the need for almost all situational awareness, and you've got yourself a plentiful helping of EZ-Mode. In Uprising 1.7, Swarm Launchers literally require more skill than using an HAV. inb4 You going on a baseless tangent about how Swarm Launchers are actually EZ-Mode and how HAVs are the most talent intensive thing in DUST 514 Timing? Basically instant lock time firing all 3 volleys in what 3 seconds? No timing needed Positioning - Only now do they require it Sit awareness - Due to reduced lock range Gun game? lolno auto lock on fire and forget, blaster requires more gun game than swarms because all you do is point at the big red box Ability - Goes with positioning I have to wait till my dot goes red or i wont get a kill and thats OP? thats working as intended because my exile BPO AR does that No i still use sit awareness i always will, 1 breach on the weakspot and your dead, ignore AV for long enough and its your own downfall Rep working as intended Swarms & skill does not belong in the same sentence, they have never required skill because you dont aim Nope. You can insta-lock and fire all 3 volleys, but that doesn't guarrantee a hit. Swarms have this nice feature called travel time that requires you to release at the right moment, or watch as all your Swarms miss. Doesn't make much of a difference. Yes, you need gun-game. Unless of course you'd like to be destroyed by people who have weapons with 3x your range while you have the AI ability of a Light Frame. Perhaps you shouldn't expose your weakspot? Please refrain from using your lack of competence in a discussion. It really makes you look bad. To who? People also said 1.6 AV was working as intended, and yet you didn't agree with that. Not really sure what makes you think that statement would hold merit. Such laughable amounts of hypocrisy. Not really sure why someone who uses a hitscan weapon is talking about a lack of skill. Hypocrite much? lolPLC [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5450	Posted - 2014.03.09 01:19:00 - [11] - Quote poison Diego wrote: Atiim what are you saying though? do you think that the SL needs a buff The majority of the playerbase is in an agreement when it comes to Swarm Launchers needing a buff. What I'm saying, is that Swarm Launchers require an immense amount of skill when compared to their counter; and those who say Swarms require no skill are either: A. Don't use SLs, and haven't experienced their drawbacks B. Hypocrites. C. Lying to themselves. lolPLC [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5478	Posted - 2014.03.09 03:57:00 - [12] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Atiim wrote: Dauth Jenkins wrote: I believe what were getting at here is that tanks, right now, are doing their role.... they are just too good at it Not quite. HAVs don't really have a unique role, and from the responses I've gathered they are either: 1. A Mega Dropsuit 2. A Slayer Logi with 4 Wheels and an 80GJ Turret 3. Cosmetic. At first I thought it was just me, but I'm glad to see that others believe that the HAV needs a role change. :( I posted this thread a month ago I need more forum notoriety so people pay attention to my threads. (I will try to find a link if I can stop being too lazy ) That forum notoriety comes with a heavy price in New Eden... lolPLC [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5499	Posted - 2014.03.09 15:29:00 - [13] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: I dont have to do **** CCP will patch and change stuff and break the game more Infantry wont be happy until its COD 514 space edition Infantry wont be happy until vehicles are gone or at least OHK with militia AV I have no power with anything, i cant tell CCP what to do, i cant rely on CPM doing anything they wanted vehicles gone also, if i make a vehicle balance thread like ive done before infantry doesn't like it I use proto AV and have prof in it but to infantry im not AV because i can use a tank If i had it my way i would have copy and pasted everything from EVE with cap and infantry would hate that more if i was able to perma run a hardener because i had max cap skills and was able to do so But no COD Space edition here we come, get ready you might see DUST on mountain dew bottles Your right, you don't. However if you don't, your complaints shall fall on deaf ears once vehicles are brought into balance. I've yet to see a general consensus of the Infantry // AV playerbase ask for DUST 514 to be a Call Of Duty clone. In fact, asking this game to be like COD with cause you to be ridiculed and insulted. I've also yet to see a general consensus of the any part playerbase ask for any vehicle to be OHK'd by MLT level AV. You yourself have no power, but we as a community do. Once a general consensus has been reached, CCP will act. They've proven this time, and time again. Why do you think the TTK is being raised? I bet you didn't enjoy it when I could solo you with Max. Swarm Launcher skills (Op. V, Prof V, Ammo IV, & Specialist III); so why should you get to enjoy that power? Even if, cycled hardners completely break balance against AV. You keep telling AV to strike once your hardeners are down, but what if they never are down? V and AV's opportunity is supposed to come in a wave of strength, followed by a wave of weakness. V's counter (AV) cannot extend their wave, so why should you be able to? The nerfbat's coming either way, and there's nothing you can do to stop it, so you might as well submit to it. Maybe it'll even go easy on you. lolPLC [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5499	Posted - 2014.03.09 15:30:00 - [14] - Quote bamboo x wrote: Atiim wrote: Not saying they should be removed, but why are they here? They have no definitive purpose on the battlefield other than destroying other HAVs, which is circular. Pretty sure a blaster tank's purpose is ******* infantry up. You're thinking of a rail tank's purpose. So, a Slayer Logi with 4 wheels and an 80GJ Turret? lolPLC [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5499	Posted - 2014.03.09 15:33:00 - [15] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: They should let tanks deal damage to the MCC... But not as much as the Null Cannons. They used to be allowed to do so with 80GJ Railguns & Forge Guns. It was so broken. You didn't even need to capture an objective to win the match. Just have 7 HAVs with Compressed Particle Cannons and 9 Players with FGs and you were guaranteed a win. lolPLC [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5500	Posted - 2014.03.09 15:43:00 - [16] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: No not really a blaster gets obliterated by rails and if it's armor by missiles as well and lets not forget ADS's can wreck tanks with out the tank being able to do anything. Slayer Logi's only real counter excluding another slayer logi is a Sniper who isn't all that effective considering a Slayer Logi can go wherever the other one is the Sniper however can only see a certain area and if the logi avoids that area than the Sniper isn't even in the equation.. That's actually a perfect analogy to how V vs. AV is. lolPLC [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5500	Posted - 2014.03.09 15:47:00 - [17] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: No not really a blaster gets obliterated by rails and if it's armor by missiles as well and lets not forget ADS's can wreck tanks with out the tank being able to do anything. Slayer Logi's only real counter excluding another slayer logi is a Sniper who isn't all that effective considering a Slayer Logi can go wherever the other one is the Sniper however can only see a certain area and if the logi avoids that area than the Sniper isn't even in the equation.. That's actually a perfect analogy to how V vs. AV is. I really didn't think that through now did I. No, not really lolPLC [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5503	Posted - 2014.03.09 16:14:00 - [18] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: shutup about tanks already. they probably wont be fixed for as long as it took last time to change them (uprising 1.0-1.6 Like you decided to shut up about AV? Thanks for the advice, but nobody likes a hypocrite. lolPLC [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5521	Posted - 2014.03.09 18:25:00 - [19] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Baal Roo wrote: If tanks were half as fast as they currently are, all of a sudden the entire vehicle/infantry dichotomy would all make sense and be fun for everyone. Oh, heaven forbid a tank should move faster than a heavy dropsuit. They'd still be faster than a Heavy Fame lolPLC [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND