Twenty thousand years in the future they will not have explosives that are the equivalent of a 22,000 year old device. Explosives today are made to be absolutely safe until you pull the trigger. You can shoot C4, you can light it on fire, you can even use it like play dough and make little play dough gophers bite their heads off and throw them down gopher holes. The point is it will not explode unless a very specific and very extreme condition is met.

Also making it so you have to push the button to make the RE's explode will tone down the bomb trucks a little. Don't get me wrong I'm all for strapping explosives to a vehicle and driving it into a tank. I just think the guy in the jeep needs to have enough skill to actually bail out and hit the button. Not just drive it into the nearest vehicle and get an instakill.

If you're counter argument is that in the future the explosives are smart enough to know to explode when an enemy is nearby then they should also be smart enough to explode when an infantry comes within killing distance as well.
I have a feeling everyone can see how dangerous that would be though so I think it's best we just go back to if you want a RE to explode you have to push the button.

If REs are detonated by an electrical pulse, Plasma, Railgun Rounds, and Scrambers/Lasers would all set it off.

In fact, the only weapons that wouldn't set it off would be Minmatar ones. Ironic.

I agree about the plasma and laser weapons setting them off.

I'm no too sure about the railgun rounds, it's just a mag accelerated projectile. Although it's traveling fast enough that friction might ignite the explosive.

Minny projectiles wouldn't set them off but the MD might. If it's the same type of explosive in MD rounds and RE's then one would trigger the other. Right?

No, -1.

If REs are detonated by an electrical pulse, Plasma, Railgun Rounds, and Scrambers/Lasers would all set it off.

In fact, the only weapons that wouldn't set it off would be Minmatar ones. Ironic.

Remote explosives are not made to be stable...

"The F/41 series of remote explosives are among the most powerful manually triggered demolitions devices available in New Eden. Each unit is reliable and effective, using a mix of three volatile materials to produce a yield high enough to penetrate layered armour, shatter reinforced structures, and decimate infantry units."

Basically they are mixing the three materials... Have you seen them 3 different canisters and the triggering device and metal structure thus if someone shoots them they break the canisters then mixing the ingredients and kaboom! It's not difficult to understand, it works like a glowstick both chemicals don't effect each other until mixed...

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131210203903/dust514/images/8/85/Remote_Explosive.png

Simple as that.

Twenty thousand years in the future they will not have explosives that are the equivalent of a 22,000 year old device. Explosives today are made to be absolutely safe until you pull the trigger. You can shoot C4, you can light it on fire, you can even use it like play dough and make little play dough gophers bite their heads off and throw them down gopher holes. The point is it will not explode unless a very specific and very extreme condition is met.

Also making it so you have to push the button to make the RE's explode will tone down the bomb trucks a little. Don't get me wrong I'm all for strapping explosives to a vehicle and driving it into a tank. I just think the guy in the jeep needs to have enough skill to actually bail out and hit the button. Not just drive it into the nearest vehicle and get an instakill.

If you're counter argument is that in the future the explosives are smart enough to know to explode when an enemy is nearby then they should also be smart enough to explode when an infantry comes within killing distance as well.
I have a feeling everyone can see how dangerous that would be though so I think it's best we just go back to if you want a RE to explode you have to push the button.

No, jingle trucking is a perfectly valid tactic.

And explosives are not as stable as you might think.

That block of C4 you talked about... yeah you can play football with it, but if you mash it between an exploding vehicle and a wall...

... it'll blow a hole in the wall.

Jingle Trucking only works, if you slam into a tank at full speed, or the tank slams into you, and only IF the rem explos are between the two vehicles.

I have had multiple tanks survive a 7 charge jingle truck, because I hadn't thrown them on the front of the vehicle. Not to mention, it takex time for a proper jingle trucking. You have to switch to your sapper (logi with rem explos) fit, then get a truck sent down, then get near a supply point, then place the charges, then switch to a garbage fit you don't mind losing multiple times, then you have to check the map to see where they are so you can plan your attack approach, then you have to crive while avoiding all the other stuff that might hit your truck and make it go bang... all while NOT flying off cliffs nose first so you don't make the thing go bang yourself.

And C4 is NOT a good comparison to the explosives in DUST. C4 is a cutting charge, and while in large quantities can take out alot, a charge the size of these things on DUST would be using something like TNT or Composition B or C as they are much more powerful than C4 and have a higher explosion wave propogation ratio.

Artillery shells don't use C4 because it's blast wave is too localized. In other words...

... c4 makes a big boom, but a slightly less stable explosive makes for a much bigger boom.

Maybe that is why the Remote Explosives do more damage than the Proximity Explosives... RemExs are Comp C and ProxExs are C4... or something like that.

Twenty thousand years in the future they will not have explosives that are the equivalent of a 22,000 year old device. Explosives today are made to be absolutely safe until you pull the trigger. You can shoot C4, you can light it on fire, you can even use it like play dough and make little play dough gophers bite their heads off and throw them down gopher holes. The point is it will not explode unless a very specific and very extreme condition is met.

Also making it so you have to push the button to make the RE's explode will tone down the bomb trucks a little. Don't get me wrong I'm all for strapping explosives to a vehicle and driving it into a tank. I just think the guy in the jeep needs to have enough skill to actually bail out and hit the button. Not just drive it into the nearest vehicle and get an instakill.

If you're counter argument is that in the future the explosives are smart enough to know to explode when an enemy is nearby then they should also be smart enough to explode when an infantry comes within killing distance as well.
I have a feeling everyone can see how dangerous that would be though so I think it's best we just go back to if you want a RE to explode you have to push the button.

If REs are detonated by an electrical pulse, Plasma, Railgun Rounds, and Scrambers/Lasers would all set it off.

In fact, the only weapons that wouldn't set it off would be Minmatar ones. Ironic.

Forcing the driver to have to bail and detonate the explosives just means that they don't even lose a life in the process.

Would seem to me that that would just make people *****.

Jihad jeeps are a novel tactic, and I am amused when my tank dies to one. What should happen, however, is that jeep should show up on my radar, so that I'm not immediately blindsided by one and have a chance to throw up my hardeners to see if I can save myself.

what are you people talking about??? its matari tech. matari tech is very similar to our modern-day tech. im pretty sure our current tech wouldnt be able to withstand getting hit by plasma (railgun and blaster gun) or lasers (scrambler weapons).

The same complaint is also adressed at tanks by infantry.
Passive scanning on vehicles is simply broken.

Also, the whole idea of a merc is immortality.
REs aren't safe because they are utilized by a disposable plattform - Clones.
In fact, it should be possible to literally suicide bomb with grenades/REs.
That would make speed tanking far more useful.

If i can't detonate it by shooting it how do i get one off of a hack point?

If you are jingle trucking solo then yes the process you laid out is definitely time consuming.

Look a little farther into the matter and I can definitely see one proto logi sitting at a supply depot calling in a couple of jeeps at a time. He drops an uplink or two on the ground and then he switches to his explosive suit and loads up the vehicles. one guy could easily keep two jeeps stocked and ready so as soon as the drivers pop they respawn at the uplink hop in the new vehicles and are off and running again.

I'll agree that they are saying this is a trinary explosive compound so I'll drop the comparison to C4 and move on to binary / trinary explosive agents. That being said it also means the compounds must be mixed properly before you get any kind of decent detonation. Anyone who has used Tannerite knows that if you get the mix wrong it just doesn't work right.
The same goes for one of the most powerful explosives in use today ANFO. ANFO has a detonation velocity of 5,000 meters per second.

The bottom line is that if you get the mix wrong it does much less damage. When you shoot a trinary explosive lying on the ground before the materials mix, you are not going to get a proper bang when they may or may not mix through the bullet hole. Same goes for squishing a three pack of explosives strapped to the bumper of your car. You aren't going to get a proper mix to get a proper bang.


I know I said I wouldn't speak to c4 anymore but I finished my point above and wanted to address the C4 issues raised.
C4 has a detonation velocity of 8,000 meters per second which is faster and more powerful than TNT's 7,000 meters per second even when you take composition densities into account.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_explosive_detonation_velocities

Composition A, B, and C are all mainly RDX which is C4 used in different ways. Comp A is a granular version of RDX explosive, Comp B is a mix of 40% TNT and 60% RDX with 1% paraffin wax so that it can be cast and installed in Artillery shells. and Comp C is 91% RDX mixed with a plasticizer. All three have almost identical densities and explosion velocities so there is no big difference in power between the three. Just different uses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RDX
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_B

Twenty thousand years in the future they will not have explosives that are the equivalent of a 22,000 year old device. Explosives today are made to be absolutely safe until you pull the trigger. You can shoot C4, you can light it on fire, you can even use it like play dough and make little play dough gophers bite their heads off and throw them down gopher holes. The point is it will not explode unless a very specific and very extreme condition is met.

Also making it so you have to push the button to make the RE's explode will tone down the bomb trucks a little. Don't get me wrong I'm all for strapping explosives to a vehicle and driving it into a tank. I just think the guy in the jeep needs to have enough skill to actually bail out and hit the button. Not just drive it into the nearest vehicle and get an instakill.

If you're counter argument is that in the future the explosives are smart enough to know to explode when an enemy is nearby then they should also be smart enough to explode when an infantry comes within killing distance as well.
I have a feeling everyone can see how dangerous that would be though so I think it's best we just go back to if you want a RE to explode you have to push the button.