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Not nerfing the Breach AR would make it balanced in 1.8

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Daddrobit PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 564	Posted - 2014.03.08 01:43:00 - [1] - Quote Hey there, previously I've made 2 threads on this topic, but perhaps I was wrong in putting them in the general discussion area rather than in here. You can find the threads here and here. Anyways, I'll reiterate and summarize my thoughts here in order to gain a bit more visibility and hopefully get the problem recognized and assessed by a developer. The Breach AR has for a very long time been a very impotent weapon in Dust and it has only been overshadowed even more by the implementation of the CR and RR. Let me put in a quick column of data to showcase it. Breach AR 400 RPM 51 Damage per Bullet 36 Clip Size 340 DPS Proto = 374 Assault Rifle 750 RPM 34 Damage per Bullet 60 Clip Size 425 DPS Rail Rifle 461.54 RPM 55 Damage per bullet 42 Clip Size 423 DPS Assault Rail Rifle 600 RPM 45.04 Damage per Bullet 42 Clip Size 456 DPS Assault Scrambler Rifle 705.88 RPM 36 Damage per Bullet 72 Clip Size 423 DPS Assault Combat Rifle 1200 RPM 22 Damage per Bullet 68 Clip Size 440 DPS So we can basically see that the Breach AR is a Rail Rifle with worse stats in every way. It's less accurate It does less damage per bullet It fires slower It has less range It has a smaller clip capacity The Rail Rifle puts out 25% more DPS overall It just is completely outclasses by every other weapon. Let's look at the new DPS values after their nerfs of the weapons in 1.8. BAR = 300 Proto = 330 AR = 375 RR = 361 ARR = 374 AScR = 382 ACR = 400 And we can't forget the two new assault sidearms. Mag = 355.5 BP = 540 And both have better optimals than the Breach AR The prototype CreoDron Breach AR will put out 330 DPS. Even at the prototype level, the Breach AR will put out the worst DPS values versus any basic assault weapon in the game including the sidearms at ranges that tie for the worst with the basic assault rifle. (ok, it gets one meter better optimal, big whoop) Each weapon in the game should have pros and cons, but right now very literally the only pro for the Breach is that it feels good to kill someone and know they feel shame at actually dying to a Breach AR. It has the slowest ROF of any assault weapon in the game It has the lowest clip size of any assault weapon in the game It is a harder to fit variant It is a more expensive variant It has nearly the lowest range of any assault weapon in the game It has the worst raw DPS of any assault weapon in the game by a margin of 25% + But here's my suggestion: let's plug the original stats back into that list there. BAR = 340 Proto = 374 AR = 375 RR = 361 ARR = 374 AScR = 382 ACR = 400 Mag = 355.5 BP = 540 These numbers look leaps and bounds better. It is now still the lowest base DPS assault weapon in the game, but now at least it's only by a margin of 6%+ So by keeping the values we have now, it would be nearly in line with the other light assaults, and it would actually have a pro to use: It would have the highest per shot value. Yay, a reason to use a different weapon and add some diversity to the killfeed. And it's not like the prototype would scale to become anything uber; at 374 DPS it would still only put out better DPS than a basic RR and would be worse than or equal to all the other basic weapons. So, here's the math. I'd like to hear your thoughts, especially yours CCP.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 1515	Posted - 2014.03.08 06:17:00 - [2] - Quote Still liking this. Bump.
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 1937	Posted - 2014.03.08 06:23:00 - [3] - Quote Wait... Isn't the breach MORE accurate then the Standard assault? Just saying. Because you Wanted to be Something your Not.
Daddrobit PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 572	Posted - 2014.03.08 06:52:00 - [4] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Wait... Isn't the breach MORE accurate then the Standard assault? Just saying. Yes, by 1% it is more accurate than the regular assault rifle, but I was comparing it to the rail rife which it more closely resembles in my bit about accuracy. It it less accurate than the Rail Rifle, Assault Rail Rifle, Assault Combat Rifle, and the Assault Scrambler Rifle.
Daddrobit PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 577	Posted - 2014.03.14 23:21:00 - [5] - Quote #SaveTheBreach
VikingKong iBUN Third Rock From The Sun 29	Posted - 2014.03.15 01:57:00 - [6] - Quote +1 Sir
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 4635	Posted - 2014.03.15 04:51:00 - [7] - Quote +1 Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 199	Posted - 2014.03.15 06:25:00 - [8] - Quote i commonly use the the breach assault rifle even more so than the std vairnets. belive it or not.. it works better and is much more accurate while trigger spamming. rather than actually holding it down. how ever the breach AR should not be changed for 1.8 as this would allow it to be more of a convience for takeing down brick tanked suits due to high damge per bullet. and from my persepctiove the brech AR is more accurate than the rail and due to its controlled fire. allows for easier aiming at the head.
ALPHA DECRIPTER Dragon-Empire 825	Posted - 2014.03.15 09:14:00 - [9] - Quote In response to your title, +1. In response to your OP, not gonna read it cuz I'm currently not in the mood for a Wall O' Text Scout Tactician Dance puppets, DANCE!
Lynn Beck Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men. 861	Posted - 2014.03.15 09:39:00 - [10] - Quote Breach AR still has normal AR amounts of ammo. This allows you to last longer without resupplying- albeit at the risk of dying more easily. However this still means you can be good with it. Lower recoil than hipfire RR: what people don't get is the RR has to be aimed down sights for anything past 10m, as the kick 'kicks' in after the 7th shot. BAR has similar hipfire, but recoil doesn't begin until the 18th or so shot. 'Sorry Dakka, they're just so... Beautiful.' -cries- Tits are my new god, as the Galscout has enlightened me.

BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 2068	Posted - 2014.03.15 11:31:00 - [11] - Quote Even if it was un-nerfed it will remain a terrible weapon because DPS discrepancies vs long ranged weapons. For the Federation!
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 2068	Posted - 2014.03.15 11:35:00 - [12] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Breach AR still has normal AR amounts of ammo. This allows you to last longer without resupplying- albeit at the risk of dying more easily. However this still means you can be good with it. Lower recoil than hipfire RR: what people don't get is the RR has to be aimed down sights for anything past 10m, as the kick 'kicks' in after the 7th shot. BAR has similar hipfire, but recoil doesn't begin until the 18th or so shot. Kick doesn't affect CQC in Dust... you can hip fire with this gun just as well as you can with a AR or any other gun really... For the Federation!
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1008	Posted - 2014.03.15 11:44:00 - [13] - Quote You are too late. 1.8 is locked and the AR is the default weapon to deploy the Nerf Hammer of Doom on. QQs on the forums spewed hate on the AR for well over a year. Now ... no so much. Why? ARs are useless for the most part. Asking them to not Nerf an AR is just never going to end up in a happy place. Not down here in the Dust anyway. And so it goes.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 2068	Posted - 2014.03.15 11:47:00 - [14] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: You are too late. 1.8 is locked and the AR is the default weapon to deploy the Nerf Hammer of Doom on. QQs on the forums spewed hate on the AR for well over a year. Now ... no so much. Why? ARs are useless for the most part. Asking them to not Nerf an AR is just never going to end up in a happy place. Not down here in the Dust anyway. And without a weapon respec I am stuck with that POS... For the Federation!
Banjo Robertson Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 89	Posted - 2014.03.15 12:57:00 - [15] - Quote I agree that the Breach AR should not be nerfed, I also think the Tac AR should not be nerfed either. Seems kinda strange the 'assault' varients of the other weapons have somewhat higher DPS than their base weapon, but the varients of the assault weapon are worse, so why make varients if they are gonna be worse? Or why make the base weapon if its worse than the varient... hmm...
Daddrobit PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 590	Posted - 2014.03.15 16:22:00 - [16] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Breach AR still has normal AR amounts of ammo. This allows you to last longer without resupplying- albeit at the risk of dying more easily. However this still means you can be good with it. Lower recoil than hipfire RR: what people don't get is the RR has to be aimed down sights for anything past 10m, as the kick 'kicks' in after the 7th shot. BAR has similar hipfire, but recoil doesn't begin until the 18th or so shot. What are you talking about having the same amount of ammo? It only has 36 in the clip and has the lowest damage per clip potential of the assault weapons with the exception of the ACR. Total? So what, good luck lasting long enough to resupply as you get popped by a RR 20 meters out of your optimal while he's still applying full damage. And if you're hipfiring the Breach past 10 meters, you're doing it wrong. People will dance through every shot you toss in their direction the ROF is so bad if they try even a little to strafe. You -need- to be ADS with this gun as much as possible to make sure you can apply as much damage as possible because of that low clip potential.
agent caron DUST University Ivy League 7	Posted - 2014.03.16 03:50:00 - [17] - Quote +1 My recruiter link
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 1045	Posted - 2014.03.16 09:01:00 - [18] - Quote Lets be honest guys, this nerf that is coming into 1.8 regarding the weapons may well increase TTK but it sure as hell is not balancing the weapons out. I would hope later down the line CCP do a PROPER BALANCE pass on all of the weapons and make each one viable. Instead of what we have now. Join our public channel - ACME SPECIAL FORCES PUB ZERG EVENT 1MILLION CLONES! LETS DO THIS


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