DUST Search - NPE, are we getting the wrong n00bs?

Joseph Ridgeson wrote:

Joel II X wrote:

It's a free to play game.

You're just begging to get the most casuals of the casuals.

League of Legends and TF2 are both free and don't have "the most casuals of casuals." Most people that are level 20+ generally know how to play and do decently providing they are not trying something that haven't done before.

The mentality of "there is an enemy, charge, kill it" probably comes from others shooters. Call of Duty, basically, has full tiericide; a Private kills a General in exactly the same amount of time as the General kills the Private. Weapons do, essentially, the same amount of damage and have similar rates of fire. Everyone dies in 1-3 bullets, counting the time to go into ADS you are talking about a second to kill from "there is an enemy, they are now dead". Because of the ability for anyone to kill anyone quickly, charging at the enemy is completely fine. Dying also doesn't cost you anything, you don't lose your M4 because you got shot in the face.

DUST isn't that way. My Basic Assault Suit with level 4 Shield Upgrades (+20% shields) and level 1 Armor Upgrades (+5% armor) with two basic plates has about 650-ish health. Twice as much as the Frontline starter suit. A brick tank Slayer Logi can have upwards of 1,000, three times as much EHP. With the mentality of previous shooters where anyone can kill anyone in about the same amount of time, the new player might not realize that Mr. Slayer-Logi probably has 10% more range, 50%+ more damage, and 200%+ more HP.

When I first started, I did the same thing despite having played EVE for years and understanding the "you die, it costs" aspect. I didn't frivolously spend my points but I still played like I was playing TF2. "I should kill them just as fast as they kill me right? Wait, what the heck is a 'Duvolle' Assault Rifle?" The fact that the game is free to play doesn't inherently mean you get all the casual players. Go buy a copy of COD and you will find just as many 'casuals' as the people that play this game lament about.

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Sgt Buttscratch KILL-EM-QUICK 1939	Posted - 2014.03.07 17:19:00 - [1] - Quote This isn't really about NPE, it's about NP. The system in place for new players aint the best but I don't think we can blame everything on CCP or Protoscrubs. I think Dust514 seems to get a lot of people who don't play online shooters, because its FREE. I think that a lot of the new players come from fighting AI, and think they are pretty good. Then they are met by players who do play online shooters and get rolled. It is the only logical explination I can think of when I see some of these new players. Things I see that scream out that people don't know what online/competitive MMO are: They get shot, then look up.... They get shot, don't even flinch.. They see an enemy and charge... They don't come down from high uplinks... turning a well placed uplink into a farm for the enemy.... They throw a grenade at a tank and it does nothing so then they throw another.. They shoot a tank it does nothing, sothey empty their clip on it... list goes on...and on..and on. They are so casual that its obvious they are used to less harsh conditions of predictable AI enemy, they have NO tactics..NONE. I don't really know how to fix this, or even if it can be fixed, but its a killer for the game, and for anyone squaded with the bl00bs who offer nothing other than a fast depleting clone reserves pool. I try to talk to them, tell them to GTFdown, or to head towards the ONLY objective on the map. What do you people think? I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
Bax Zanith 65	Posted - 2014.03.07 17:33:00 - [2] - Quote I don't know. I never played an online FPS untill dust. I did just as bad as our noobs are now, but I thought that was just the tippicle "your so pathetic when your new" mentality of MMOs. I stayed, and ilearned the hard way how things worked. I'd say walk in my shoes for a day, but you probably still won't understand.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 1488	Posted - 2014.03.07 17:37:00 - [3] - Quote It's a free to play game. You're just begging to get the most casuals of the casuals.
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 788	Posted - 2014.03.07 17:39:00 - [4] - Quote This would be solved with a half decent Academy Nemo me impune lacessit
Waiyu Ren Seeker of The Path 40	Posted - 2014.03.07 19:49:00 - [5] - Quote How long does it take the average player to figure everything out? I figured out hack/capture in my first game, "Vehicles require Anti-Vehicle weapons" by looking at my free suits and seeing an anti-tank gun etc, with the rest being an ongoing process. But then I find that my only real problem as a new player trying to get into an MMO, is the bizarre elitist attitude of many of the pre-existing Vets. It's not limited to this game it's just human nature, and it's silly.... Here's a thought though; if you keep coming up against these people, perhaps there are more new players than anyone realises? Shouting doesn't make your opinion seem more valid, it just makes you seem more annoying.
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2610	Posted - 2014.03.07 19:55:00 - [6] - Quote I still maintain the idea that all the terrible players are EVE pilots who got cocky and thought they could just roll right over us lowly console players I'll start my own war, with hookers, and blackjack! In fact forget the war and the blackjack.
Flyingconejo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 532	Posted - 2014.03.07 19:58:00 - [7] - Quote They are all ex-Valor players.
Bax Zanith 66	Posted - 2014.03.07 20:08:00 - [8] - Quote Waiyu Ren wrote: How long does it take the average player to figure everything out? Good question. It tooks me three weeks to realize that we had stamina. The first thing I ever did with dropsuits was stick a milita shotgun to my starter medic, and when I restocked it, I thought I was buying amo for it, rather then shotguns. There needs to be a tutorial system in place, something that will let players decide if they should stay or should they go. I pass the question along; how long did it take you (anyone who wants to answer) to figure everything out? I'd say walk in my shoes for a day, but you probably still won't understand.
Beck Weathers Ultramarine Corp 674	Posted - 2014.03.07 20:16:00 - [9] - Quote Weapons need a much larger IN YOUR FACE nich explanation. weapon and more acutatly the discription of everything in this game is long winded and usualy out dated or dead WRONG! When you look at a weapons discription it should have a bold short decription of EXACTLY what it dose. Swarm launcher: A fast firing light anti tank weapon used for driving heavily armored vehicals away or finishing them off. Uses explosive technology so preforms pourly aginst shields and dose considerably more damage vs armor. Then long fluffy part about where it came from and such Plasma Rifle: A high rate of fire short range anti infantry assult rifle that shoots small bolts of plasma which work best aginst enemy shields. These forums must be located in the Californin country side, there is whine as far as the eye can see.
Billi Gene 499	Posted - 2014.03.07 20:16:00 - [10] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: I still maintain the idea that all the terrible players are EVE pilots who got cocky and thought they could just roll right over us lowly console players they're called orbitals, and the worst part is that you need a Dust Bunny to target them for you............. Pedant, Ape, Troll. My Beard makes Alpha's sook :P

Denak Kalamari Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 1241	Posted - 2014.03.07 20:17:00 - [11] - Quote From what I understood, the prime audience this game is targeted to are the people who have played other FPS' before and know the basics, so they don't have to tell them: "This is a gun, here's how you shoot it". And then I see people who don't know how to sprint, it makes me scratch my head. And personally, I didn't have a hard time figuring out the basics of the game and Ui, I caught onto the idea of stocking fittings, ISK useage and the like, and I slowly started learning more and more about the game's finer points like damage types, fitting optimization and good weapon combos. It could just be me though, I've never had much problem figuring how game mechanics work. Grahisha of ILF // Writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier // Latest entry published Feb. 10th
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 680	Posted - 2014.03.07 20:25:00 - [12] - Quote Joel II X wrote: It's a free to play game. You're just begging to get the most casuals of the casuals. League of Legends and TF2 are both free and don't have "the most casuals of casuals." Most people that are level 20+ generally know how to play and do decently providing they are not trying something that haven't done before. The mentality of "there is an enemy, charge, kill it" probably comes from others shooters. Call of Duty, basically, has full tiericide; a Private kills a General in exactly the same amount of time as the General kills the Private. Weapons do, essentially, the same amount of damage and have similar rates of fire. Everyone dies in 1-3 bullets, counting the time to go into ADS you are talking about a second to kill from "there is an enemy, they are now dead". Because of the ability for anyone to kill anyone quickly, charging at the enemy is completely fine. Dying also doesn't cost you anything, you don't lose your M4 because you got shot in the face. DUST isn't that way. My Basic Assault Suit with level 4 Shield Upgrades (+20% shields) and level 1 Armor Upgrades (+5% armor) with two basic plates has about 650-ish health. Twice as much as the Frontline starter suit. A brick tank Slayer Logi can have upwards of 1,000, three times as much EHP. With the mentality of previous shooters where anyone can kill anyone in about the same amount of time, the new player might not realize that Mr. Slayer-Logi probably has 10% more range, 50%+ more damage, and 200%+ more HP. When I first started, I did the same thing despite having played EVE for years and understanding the "you die, it costs" aspect. I didn't frivolously spend my points but I still played like I was playing TF2. "I should kill them just as fast as they kill me right? Wait, what the heck is a 'Duvolle' Assault Rifle?" The fact that the game is free to play doesn't inherently mean you get all the casual players. Go buy a copy of COD and you will find just as many 'casuals' as the people that play this game lament about.
Justice Prevails 198	Posted - 2014.03.07 20:31:00 - [13] - Quote Remember being confused about the skill system. Was just done playing skyrim, had sort of a clue but still ****** it up. Don't even think I knew i was getting stomped in battle. Actually had a very good opinion of this game until i researched something and found the forums. Ignorance is bliss. Still love the game though. Cappuccino slimfast: Will make your urine smell like a starbucks:-)
Cpl Foster USMC Alpha Response Command 691	Posted - 2014.03.07 20:32:00 - [14] - Quote I was moving towards one in the Academy with charged Nova Knives and I swear I heard him thinking "What's that guy doing with those glowing stick things ?" he just stood there... then I stabbed him to death... nice Academy.....but the best part....the best part is the class they need that doesn't exist... Uplink 101 go ahead...go to the Academy...you'll see.... Forum Ban over..!!---> I feel like a "Made Man" now.....
Waiyu Ren Seeker of The Path 41	Posted - 2014.03.07 20:36:00 - [15] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Joel II X wrote: It's a free to play game. You're just begging to get the most casuals of the casuals. Go buy a copy of COD and you will find just as many 'casuals' as the people that play this game lament about. Seems pretty clear it's the NPE over the NPs themselves. DUST should have a bi-line somewhere that explains what it actually is to these guys/gals. Though at times i'm not completely certain i know my self, and i'm sure there really are some true R-Tards out there, but they are hardly representative of the rest of us. Shouting doesn't make your opinion seem more valid, it just makes you seem more annoying.
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 3036	Posted - 2014.03.07 20:42:00 - [16] - Quote I don't think I got a Kill for my first month of playing. I thought map knowledge would eventually be the most valuable tool. And it is, sometimes. But I got a little OCD with it and these maps are so unnecessarily huge. I was big on CoD up thru the first MW, then got burned out and didn't game again til Skyrim. I had forgot about playing the numbers and had a 0.16 KDR with over 2000 deaths the first time I looked. That was a massive hole to try to climb out of when it seemed like everybody else knew what was up and had 10,000,000 more SP than I did back in early open beta. I didn't understand anything about anything until I got to the forums. Specializing? ****, I invested in everything. Poorly. I was awful well into Uprising, then it all started to come back to me and started to figure this thing out. I GÖú Kittens.
Beck Weathers Ultramarine Corp 677	Posted - 2014.03.07 20:52:00 - [17] - Quote How about dat loading screen that says hybrid weapons are equaly good vs shields and armor..... when was the last time THAT was true? Open beta? These forums must be located in the Californin country side, there is whine as far as the eye can see.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 695	Posted - 2014.03.07 20:56:00 - [18] - Quote Bax Zanith wrote: Waiyu Ren wrote: How long does it take the average player to figure everything out? Good question. It tooks me three weeks to realize that we had stamina. The first thing I ever did with dropsuits was stick a milita shotgun to my starter medic, and when I restocked it, I thought I was buying amo for it, rather then shotguns. There needs to be a tutorial system in place, something that will let players decide if they should stay or should they go. I pass the question along; how long did it take you (anyone who wants to answer) to figure everything out? A few months. But to be honest, I'm still learning every day with every death. Or at least that's what I tell myself when I die.
ALPHA DECRIPTER Dragon-Empire 811	Posted - 2014.03.07 21:13:00 - [19] - Quote Took me about a week to get on the right track. -Day 1- "Capture NULL Cannons" CoD told me to attack the big letters. The letter is firing missiles so I suppose this is the "NULL Cannon". -Day 2- After some trial and error I think I like the G-Scout's proto fit the best Creates new toon and specs into G-scouts -Day 3- So sick of this dang glitch! WHY IS MY JUMPING SO DANG LOW!?!?!....oh, what's this? starts sprinting and notices a little bare go down huh so this is my sprint gauge. Jumps and notices the bar go down again ohhhh so it's NOT a glitch. -Day 4- Accidently presses right on D-pad ??? vehicles? "RDV request accepted" Cool! \| Looks at team chat and sees "Squad up everyone" clicks on an empty squad slot and joins squad -Day 5- Joins a random squad and notices that the players are decent and they all know each other Checks info and sees that they are all in the same corp Fiddles with the tac net and eventually figures out how to make a corp request Gets accepted Scout Tactician Dance puppets, DANCE!
InsidiousN KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 181	Posted - 2014.03.07 21:21:00 - [20] - Quote Flyingconejo wrote: They are all ex-Valor players. They found me again. I feel your pain my brother- Valor in MAG should have just been renamed KEQ seeing as how we were the only ones who even made an effort to win matches for Valor.

Zirzo Valcyn Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 166	Posted - 2014.03.07 21:31:00 - [21] - Quote OP is right just make an alt and play in academy, it's entertaining at first but after 1/2 hour watching total noobs derp at dust becomes depressing. i mean can you really be that stupid and ignorant of FPS games to know that an AR can't blow up a tank? you would think they would understand after 48 bullets fails to blow up a vehicle that reloading and unloading another clip is not going to work and crouching while shooting at a vehicle doesn't help any more than standing there did. the rest of them have absolute no awareness of their HP and attack when they should be taking cover. u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll.
Flyingconejo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 534	Posted - 2014.03.07 21:32:00 - [22] - Quote InsidiousN wrote: Flyingconejo wrote: They are all ex-Valor players. They found me again. I feel your pain my brother- Valor in MAG should have just been renamed KEQ seeing as how we were the only ones who even made an effort to win matches for Valor. RND, Contract Hunters and the rest of the (very few) Valor clans also fought the good fight. But the regular bluedots matched the OP description word for word.
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 543	Posted - 2014.03.07 21:34:00 - [23] - Quote Bax Zanith wrote: I don't know. I never played an online FPS untill dust. I did just as bad as our noobs are now, but I thought that was just the tippicle "your so pathetic when your new" mentality of MMOs. I stayed, and ilearned the hard way how things worked. Same and having started many alts, I can see where we might be losing some. For something that is supposed to be all about community, this game makes it very hard to get in touch with anyone. I think we're actually seeing very little of the population coming to the forums. I'd bet most of them don't even know its here. They downloaded the free game, tried it out, were lost and posted in local which may or may not have active vets looking in and said, well feck it and leave. The menus are not intuitive. We can claim they are as much as we want but when you play something for 6+ months, anything "seems" intuitive. Part of my job actually entails designing intuitive interfaces for users. This interface misses the mark in every way. I also remember way back when I started the game, there was an in game mail that described everything and in the load screens it actually explained visually the lifecycle: 'you purchase items, you use items and lose them in game, you use earned sp and isk to purchase more skills and items' That is no longer in the load screens. Now its basically 'skirmish: this is what a skirmish is...', etc. The new "improved" academy literally says: open battle finder and join battle. You get thrown in battle and press buttons to see what happens which may or may not be easy depending if you're used to fps. You get out of battle and it says congrats, now go level up any skill. A new player is either going to spend hours reading on skills not knowing which is better for any reason other than to just try it, or skill into the first thing he sees. Congrats, you leveled a skill. Now go play the game. It doesn't tell you how to do these things, you just press buttons until menus fly out. it doesn't tell you how to use chat. It doesn't tell you about your default corp or even squad finder, which is why so many of us have to repeat over and over: don't go solo, find a squad. There is a level of basic general introduction that needs to happen if you are not going to create an intuitive interface and we don't have one or the other right now. TL;DR: Lack of connection with community and a very non intuitive interface create a big enough disconnect to dissuade more people away from this game than we probably realize. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 1502	Posted - 2014.03.07 22:13:00 - [24] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Joel II X wrote: It's a free to play game. You're just begging to get the most casuals of the casuals. League of Legends and TF2 are both free and don't have "the most casuals of casuals." Most people that are level 20+ generally know how to play and do decently providing they are not trying something that haven't done before. The mentality of "there is an enemy, charge, kill it" probably comes from others shooters. Call of Duty, basically, has full tiericide; a Private kills a General in exactly the same amount of time as the General kills the Private. Weapons do, essentially, the same amount of damage and have similar rates of fire. Everyone dies in 1-3 bullets, counting the time to go into ADS you are talking about a second to kill from "there is an enemy, they are now dead". Because of the ability for anyone to kill anyone quickly, charging at the enemy is completely fine. Dying also doesn't cost you anything, you don't lose your M4 because you got shot in the face. DUST isn't that way. My Basic Assault Suit with level 4 Shield Upgrades (+20% shields) and level 1 Armor Upgrades (+5% armor) with two basic plates has about 650-ish health. Twice as much as the Frontline starter suit. A brick tank Slayer Logi can have upwards of 1,000, three times as much EHP. With the mentality of previous shooters where anyone can kill anyone in about the same amount of time, the new player might not realize that Mr. Slayer-Logi probably has 10% more range, 50%+ more damage, and 200%+ more HP. When I first started, I did the same thing despite having played EVE for years and understanding the "you die, it costs" aspect. I didn't frivolously spend my points but I still played like I was playing TF2. "I should kill them just as fast as they kill me right? Wait, what the heck is a 'Duvolle' Assault Rifle?" The fact that the game is free to play doesn't inherently mean you get all the casual players. Go buy a copy of COD and you will find just as many 'casuals' as the people that play this game lament about. You're forgetting the fact that there are more casuals on console rather than PC. PC gamers are just "different". I play on all platforms and have friends who are exclusive to one, so I know what I'm talking about. And then there are outliers...
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3019	Posted - 2014.03.07 22:30:00 - [25] - Quote The real problem is that there isn't really any "academy" at all. Throwing 32 people who have never played the game before into matches with each other isn't an "academy," it's a cluster**. The "academy" should be a series of actual new player training exercises that actually teaches players how the game works. Drop Uplinks 101 Player spawns alone in a domination map Cortana Voice: "Drop Uplinks are used to give a squad a reliable spawn point. Reach Objective A and place a Drop Uplink within the highlighted area." Player reaches highlighted area and drops the uplink Cortana Voice: "Good. For training purposes your clone will now be terminated, please respawn on the newly placed uplink to complete training exercise" System forces a Suicide. Player respawns on uplink. Cortana Voice: "Good. As you can see, Drop Uplinks save time when spawning, and allow you to choose a tactical position to spawn when your clone is killed in action. It is advised that you take care in your placement of Drop Uplinks and protect them at all costs. A good Drop Uplink placement can mean the difference between winning and losing." END SCENARIO Squads 101** Starts as a tutorial video showing the neocom interface. Cortana Voice: "To be effective in New Eden, it is important not just to find your own niche, but to also work with others who's skills compliment your own." video shows squad finder being pulled up Cortana Voice: "The easiest way to find other players to work with is through the Squad Finder Tool. This tool lists all squads currently looking to fill out their squad" Video shows choosing a squad from list and joining, then jump cuts to "in game" footage of 6 varying disciplined characters (a couple heavies, a scout, a logi, a couple assualts) all standing together. If they wanted to get fancy they could do a cut scene with some fancy shots of the different roles working together, a logi repping a heavy, a heavy with a forge taking out a dropship, a scout running out ahead with a scanner, an assault guy clearing corners, etc. Cortana Voice: "Alone, a single mercenary's options are limited, but in a squad a group's strengths can be leveraged and their weaknesses minimized. New Eden is a harsh place, and you will not survive long on your own" END SCENARIO Basically, there needs to be a "101" for each piece of the game. Players shouldn't be required to do them, but the screen that lists all of them should come up at the beginning of every play session until they are out of academy, and there should be a clear SP and ISK bonus for completing them all.
Sgt Buttscratch KILL-EM-QUICK 1940	Posted - 2014.03.07 22:38:00 - [26] - Quote Denak Kalamari wrote: And then I see people who don't know how to sprint, it makes me scratch my head. . OMFG..... As for the rest. I understand that the tutorials are missing A LOT, for weapons there is not only a very restricted choices at first, and the information on the weapons weakness/strengths just aint there. BUT that does not stop a player from being able to pull the trigger. In just about any online shooter the red guys are bad and need killing, yet on dust I see people just not attack, as if the situation is new to them. Today I watched a guy in spawn throw a grenade at his own feet, ADS at it, then almost die. As I say this game could change a lot for NPE, but regardless of change the incomming players will be the same. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
Draka Marintu TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 180	Posted - 2014.03.07 23:08:00 - [27] - Quote It took me about a week to grasp the concept of this game thenI met a couple of closed beta vets and we formed Like a boss and it was all over from there its much harder now for new players to get involved with players who have had some experience which is a major part of the problem now not may vets will join a squad of radom blues if we tried it out more often there would probably be much more talented players out there When the war of giants is over the war of pygmies will begin
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 543	Posted - 2014.03.07 23:26:00 - [28] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: Denak Kalamari wrote: And then I see people who don't know how to sprint, it makes me scratch my head. . OMFG..... As for the rest. I understand that the tutorials are missing A LOT, for weapons there is not only a very restricted choices at first, and the information on the weapons weakness/strengths just aint there. BUT that does not stop a player from being able to pull the trigger. In just about any online shooter the red guys are bad and need killing, yet on dust I see people just not attack, as if the situation is new to them. Today I watched a guy in spawn throw a grenade at his own feet, ADS at it, then almost die. As I say this game could change a lot for NPE, but regardless of change the incomming players will be the same. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
Ronan Elsword Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 205	Posted - 2014.03.07 23:28:00 - [29] - Quote (Starting in Open Beta) The way I see it is that when I started putting a lot of time into this game nobody had Proto anything. So as I learned how to play the game I had an even level with the other players of the same level. I also found a good group of people that I'm still playing with today that kept me interested in the game, whom without I most likely would have moved on and tried again later. If I started today pubstomp after pubstomp I would have quit within a week. I actually play one match a day now because I'm tired of the Protostompers. I was fine with it until they started running Proto after they went negative in ISK for the match. Seriously, spending a million ISK in a pub match just to pad your KDR, Get Good. Minimal Closed Beta Experience in August-Open time frame because I left PS3 at home while I was away at school. Got 2 free Exile Assault Rifles in December, but didn't have a lot of time to play the game back then. *"War doesn't determine who is right, only who is left."*
TunRa D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 496	Posted - 2014.03.08 00:10:00 - [30] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: I still maintain the idea that all the terrible players are EVE pilots who got cocky and thought they could just roll right over us lowly console players You really hate Eve players. Thanks CCP Foxfour



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