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Come 1.8, the Assault Combat Rifle will really be the best rifle

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Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7185	Posted - 2014.03.07 10:55:00 - [1] - Quote While it having more DPS and range than the AR is annoying, there is another thing that is problematic. It's damage profile. Why does the combat rifle get -5% to shields and +10% to armor, instead of -10% to shields? With the prof nerf and damage mods nerfed, this means that weapons like the SCR will have a problem chewing through armor. RR will have a problem to chew through shields. AR will have a problem to chew through armor. (Though not as much as SCR) This means that when you reach the other damage type, you hit a brick wall. But not with the Combat Rifle. You take a very light hit in terms of damage, half of what the AR and RR get hit with, and 1/4th of what the SCR gets hit with. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 1027	Posted - 2014.03.07 11:01:00 - [2] - Quote lol cat merc you should know by now that whenever CCP does something one thing or more will get messed up in the process be it being OP or turning UP YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED!!! sç+a¦át¢èa¦á)sç+ (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
Horizen Kenpachi The Elite Forces Of Feros DARKSTAR ARMY 222	Posted - 2014.03.07 11:01:00 - [3] - Quote I use them now and there great but it still chews ammo fast and killing a group with out reloading is impossible rail rifle can take out a mcc in one clip as with the scr Hit me with your nerf bat.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 937	Posted - 2014.03.07 11:02:00 - [4] - Quote The DPS on CR is still good, as that is what is is intended for The bullets are weak, but the RoF is high to make up for that So yes the CR will be badass But that is assuming you hit every shot CR lacks the range of RR it lacks the OHK of ScR and it is not as reliable as AR which is more accurate along with larger clipsize Can we please wait until 1.8 before OP complaints 'D1CK by name' 'D1CK by nature'
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7187	Posted - 2014.03.07 11:06:00 - [5] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: The DPS on CR is still good, as that is what is is intended for The bullets are weak, but the RoF is high to make up for that So yes the CR will be badass But that is assuming you hit every shot CR lacks the range of RR it lacks the OHK of ScR and it is not as reliable as AR which is more accurate along with larger clipsize Can we please wait until 1.8 before OP complaints The CR has more range than AR. Hence it should have lower DPS. "But that is assuming you hit every shot" Actually, since it has lower damage per bullet, missing a bullet hurts less than missing with an AR or RR or especially an SCR. So that's actually a +. CR beats the AR in range. Neither CR nor AR have OHK. It's even more reliable than AR, it reloads faster, has more range, tighter hipfire, missing doesn't hurt as much, etc'. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7187	Posted - 2014.03.07 11:07:00 - [6] - Quote Horizen Kenpachi wrote: I use them now and there great but it still chews ammo fast and killing a group with out reloading is impossible rail rifle can take out a mcc in one clip as with the scr Killing groups is possible, just smaller groups. (1 less person for the most part) Plus it reloads faster, so you can get back in the action faster. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 937	Posted - 2014.03.07 11:12:00 - [7] - Quote We have not seen how the weapons function... and considering the CR does half the DMG of other rifles There is no way to make a call on how they will work The CR is a rifle variant of the SMG I think it's safe to say a weapon based on SMG should have higher DPS than the other rifles And you act like the range difference is huge... It is barely noticeable between AR/CR Neither of us have a right to argue this As I am clearly biased towards CR And your are biased towards AR We need to wait til 1.8 and find out how they work The AR has not under performed half as much as what has been claimed on forum since 1.7 'D1CK by name' 'D1CK by nature'
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7189	Posted - 2014.03.07 11:17:00 - [8] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: We have not seen how the weapons function... and considering the CR does half the DMG of other rifles There is no way to make a call on how they will work The CR is a rifle variant of the SMG I think it's safe to say a weapon based on SMG should have higher DPS than the other rifles And you act like the range difference is huge... It is barely noticeable between AR/CR Neither of us have a right to argue this As I am clearly biased towards CR And your are biased towards AR We need to wait til 1.8 and find out how they work The AR has not under performed half as much as what has been claimed on forum since 1.7 If you want the highest DPS? Have the lowest range. You can't have both, why do you think the RR was hit as hard as it did? The CR has 11m more range than the AR. That's significant, because that means in every meter while inside the AR's effective range, the CR has less % of the damage taken out, meaning that it's more effective overall after the AR reaches it's optimal range. I was in a PC match a couple of days ago. There was not a single AR on any side. Not a single one. Nada. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1986	Posted - 2014.03.07 12:08:00 - [9] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: While it having more DPS and range than the AR is annoying, there is another thing that is problematic. It's damage profile. Why does the combat rifle get -5% to shields and +10% to armor, instead of -10% to shields? With the prof nerf and damage mods nerfed, this means that weapons like the SCR will have a problem chewing through armor. RR will have a problem to chew through shields. AR will have a problem to chew through armor. (Though not as much as SCR) This means that when you reach the other damage type, you hit a brick wall. But not with the Combat Rifle. You take a very light hit in terms of damage, half of what the AR and RR get hit with, and 1/4th of what the SCR gets hit with. I honestly thought the proficiency bonus would help the weak profile effectively cutting the old proficiency bonus in half. But this is just a whole new beast. Like Arkena said in 1.8 dual tanking will again be the best viable fit, making shield suits the best again. Some weapons like the scrambler rifle are going to just destroy shields instantly like just f*** their day up and mass drivers vs armor doing 135% damage it's going to be brutal. Then we have AV which is geared towards killing armor. That means a hardened/extended shield tank WILL be the best choice since the Swarm/forge just got a 15% damage nerf on shields while armor tanks are just going to be screwed over so hard. For the Federation!
ads alt DROID EXILES General Tso's Alliance 76	Posted - 2014.03.07 12:18:00 - [10] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: While it having more DPS and range than the AR is annoying, there is another thing that is problematic. It's damage profile. Why does the combat rifle get -5% to shields and +10% to armor, instead of -10% to shields? With the prof nerf and damage mods nerfed, this means that weapons like the SCR will have a problem chewing through armor. RR will have a problem to chew through shields. AR will have a problem to chew through armor. (Though not as much as SCR) This means that when you reach the other damage type, you hit a brick wall. But not with the Combat Rifle. You take a very light hit in terms of damage, half of what the AR and RR get hit with, and 1/4th of what the SCR gets hit with. I can dirw the cr at max fire rate bwcause I can time it right, I will do more dps than the acr

BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1986	Posted - 2014.03.07 12:26:00 - [11] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: We have not seen how the weapons function... and considering the CR does half the DMG of other rifles There is no way to make a call on how they will work The CR is a rifle variant of the SMG I think it's safe to say a weapon based on SMG should have higher DPS than the other rifles And you act like the range difference is huge... It is barely noticeable between AR/CR Neither of us have a right to argue this As I am clearly biased towards CR And your are biased towards AR We need to wait til 1.8 and find out how they work The AR has not under performed half as much as what has been claimed on forum since 1.7 Some people fail to understand range in Dust 514 I will explain AR DPS 375 \|>>>>40M>>>>>\|------65M-------\| ACR DPS 375 \|>>>>> 50M>>>>>\|--------75M--------\| At 0-40 meters the AR is matched in DPS they are on an equal footing meaning in a 1v1 scenario if range did not extend past 40 meters both weapons are on an equal and fair footing. But this is not the case. Past 40 meters the AR loses 4.6% damage per meter. Meaning at 50 meters the AR does 172 DPS and the ACR does 375 meaning the ACR has an advantage over the AR at long range where as the AR has no advantage at long range or short range this is imbalance. Past that at its effective range the ACR does 112.5 DPS while the AR does no damage whatsoever. Tl;dr Long range weapons have a Damage advantage over short range weapons even though the numerical figures are the same. But at short range, short range weapons have NO advantage over long range weapons meaning that long range weapons are superior and can output more damage. Tl;dr Long range weapons do more damage than short range weapons. For the Federation!
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 651	Posted - 2014.03.07 12:29:00 - [12] - Quote I would rather see projectiles changed to a -5/+5% profile instead of becoming another -10/+10%. We already have that in rails. This would make it the most "neutral" profile, where you're basically doing the damage listed on your weapon. Or it would be, if the new prof skills wouldn't make it -5/+20%. Now is the winter of our non-content. Ghosts Chance's hero for 3/1/14. A manu dei et tet rimon.
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 785	Posted - 2014.03.07 12:32:00 - [13] - Quote the "it has higher range so it should have lower dps" argument is bullshit. This would only be true if all the weapons fired like the AR, absolutely perfect. Nemo me impune lacessit
I-Shayz-I I-----I 2463	Posted - 2014.03.07 12:34:00 - [14] - Quote See the thing with the assault combat rifle is that it can't kill people easily from 100 meters away like the RR can. New FOTM is the commando suits because of the proficiency changes. Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7196	Posted - 2014.03.07 12:34:00 - [15] - Quote Obodiah Garro wrote: the "it has higher range so it should have lower dps" argument is bullshit. This would only be true if all the weapons fired like the AR, absolutely perfect. But the ACR fires perfectly like the AR Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1988	Posted - 2014.03.07 12:36:00 - [16] - Quote Obodiah Garro wrote: the "it has higher range so it should have lower dps" argument is bullshit. This would only be true if all the weapons fired like the AR, absolutely perfect. SNIP So basically you are in agreement that a long range weapon SHOULD be superior to a short ranged weapon? For the Federation!
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1988	Posted - 2014.03.07 12:39:00 - [17] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Obodiah Garro wrote: the "it has higher range so it should have lower dps" argument is bullshit. This would only be true if all the weapons fired like the AR, absolutely perfect. But the ACR fires perfectly like the AR If it fires a shot it fires fine really... The only weapons unaffected by this are mass drivers and flay locks but they have no range... For the Federation!
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 183	Posted - 2014.03.07 12:39:00 - [18] - Quote Dont cry for me SCR - Charged shots have no issue with armor and have range on their side Also the faster they tear through the first level of defense they can sink a few charged shots (if necessary) to finish off foes RR - Full auto from range will be just fine The ACR wont be doing close to its full damage outside of its range. This is all about the AR vs ACR so why not leave the other stuff out and tone down the hype subject. On this I have no argument as I think they need to change the AR to be better up close. "Shine bright like a diamond"
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1988	Posted - 2014.03.07 12:45:00 - [19] - Quote Master Smurf wrote: Dont cry for me SCR - Charged shots have no issue with armor and have range on their side Also the faster they tear through the first level of defense they can sink a few charged shots (if necessary) to finish off foes RR - Full auto from range will be just fine The ACR wont be doing close to its full damage outside of its range. This is all about the AR vs ACR so why not leave the other stuff out and tone down the hype subject. On this I have no argument as I think they need to change the AR to be better up close. Until 1.8 where you charged shot is not affected by proficiency. Pre 1.8 your charged shot did close to normal damage with prof 5 and with damage mods you did normal to 10% more damage. In 1.8 you will do 20% less damage regardless. Honestly CCP should either change the prof bonus to increase a perk of the weapon like reduced spool for the RR, rof for the AR, ammo for the CR etc. This would invalidate the damage nerf as necessary not screw over single tanking styles, normalize TTK, and still reward prof progression. For the Federation!
Echoist Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 226	Posted - 2014.03.07 12:54:00 - [20] - Quote I can't wait till this game actually gets recoil for the guns, would also like a weapon jamming system like the HMG and lasers. I mean firing a 60 round clip continously has got to heat up the barrel of the gun no matter what ammunition is fired. Noobasaures: "Rawr" Laser Rifle Specialist, Rail Rifles... Lol fail STINGY: Yes I did nickname my laser rifle.

Alternate Insano SUICIDE SPITE SQUAD 235	Posted - 2014.03.07 13:06:00 - [21] - Quote I love my Assault CR! It kills everyone! I can hip shoot RR scrubs before they can get a bead on me, and if I feel like aiming I can take the same guys at 70m +. I melt heavies, scouts, logis, and have even started chasing down LAVs. The only way it could be better would if you could dual wield it, or it was belt fed, or if it had an under barrel launcher. I can't wait for 1.8 for the MD buff for my soon to be Min commando, he's got the ACR and the AMD. FotM baby! DUST 514 Super Scrub Level 262 Forum Troll Play, or play not. There is no balance.
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 651	Posted - 2014.03.07 13:27:00 - [22] - Quote Echoist wrote: I can't wait till this game actually gets recoil for the guns, would also like a weapon jamming system like the HMG and lasers. I mean firing a 60 round clip continously has got to heat up the barrel of the gun no matter what ammunition is fired. Which is exactly why both overheat..... Now is the winter of our non-content. Ghosts Chance's hero for 3/1/14. A manu dei et tet rimon.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 2585	Posted - 2014.03.07 13:40:00 - [23] - Quote It's funny when people say, "Let's see how it's going to work because we don't know until 1.8 gets here", in this thread. When, in fact, the CR, right now, does -5% to shields andn +10% to armor. weRideNDie2getha since 2010 RND's recruitment official phrase
Echoist Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 227	Posted - 2014.03.07 15:11:00 - [24] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: Echoist wrote: I can't wait till this game actually gets recoil for the guns, would also like a weapon jamming system like the HMG and lasers. I mean firing a 60 round clip continously has got to heat up the barrel of the gun no matter what ammunition is fired. Which is exactly why both overheat..... Exactly so why doesn't every gun overheat or jam. Of course there are some weapons that wouldn't make sense to have the jamming effect mass driver being one of them, maybe the sniper rifle too. Just my thoughts though, would love to have this game be more tactical. Noobasaures: "Rawr" Laser Rifle Specialist, Rail Rifles... Lol fail STINGY: Yes I did nickname my laser rifle.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1572	Posted - 2014.03.07 15:16:00 - [25] - Quote RR and CR will be king against bricktankers in 1.8 (everybody). This is due to having a damage profile that matches the EHP ratio that is shield/armor approximately. Drop it like its hat.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1742	Posted - 2014.03.07 15:17:00 - [26] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: While it having more DPS and range than the AR is annoying, there is another thing that is problematic. It's damage profile. Why does the combat rifle get -5% to shields and +10% to armor, instead of -10% to shields? With the prof nerf and damage mods nerfed, this means that weapons like the SCR will have a problem chewing through armor. RR will have a problem to chew through shields. AR will have a problem to chew through armor. (Though not as much as SCR) This means that when you reach the other damage type, you hit a brick wall. But not with the Combat Rifle. You take a very light hit in terms of damage, half of what the AR and RR get hit with, and 1/4th of what the SCR gets hit with. Very true. I have never done FOTM and never will, but the ACR/Magsec combo is definitely gonna put me in that camp. Damn, gonna have to move out of standard suits and into proto in pub matches now too. lol. I support SP rollover.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1573	Posted - 2014.03.07 16:01:00 - [27] - Quote Two great combos for 1.8: Plasma cannon/SMG (check, got it) Assault Scrambler/SMG (check, got it) Gal scout (check, will spec into it) ;) Drop it like its hat.
Lv2spd2 Slow And Old 222	Posted - 2014.03.07 16:16:00 - [28] - Quote Echoist wrote: . Of course there are some weapons that wouldn't make sense to have the jamming effect mass driver being one of them My MD sometimes suffers from ghost shots, where it makes the firing sound but there is no projectile. I suspect this is just lag, but the effect is pretty much the same.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 692	Posted - 2014.03.07 16:22:00 - [29] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: See the thing with the assault combat rifle is that it can't kill people easily from 100 meters away like the RR can. Having used the RR since its introduction, I can count on one hand the amount of times I've killed someone from 100m away. Therefore, I simply disagree with your assertion based on my first-hand experience. Respectfully...Leadfoot
Heimdallr69 Ancient Ecchi 1787	Posted - 2014.03.07 16:27:00 - [30] - Quote If you miss a shot with the cr you will miss more than just 1 bullet. Just saying Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro

Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 1975	Posted - 2014.03.07 16:33:00 - [31] - Quote Master Smurf wrote: Dont cry for me SCR - Charged shots have no issue with armor and have range on their side Also the faster they tear through the first level of defense they can sink a few charged shots (if necessary) to finish off foes Yep, because I just LOVE spending two seconds charging my rifle for a single shot. I will definitely enjoy charging for six seconds to kill a single suit, while my suit is rapidly whittled away RR - Full auto from range will be just fine The ACR wont be doing close to its full damage outside of its range. And the AR will be doing even less. But the ACR's effective range (optimal, even) extends over most relevant ranges for assaulting (i.e. null cannons and their surrounds). This is all about the AR vs ACR so why not leave the other stuff out and tone down the hype subject. On this I have no argument as I think they need to change the AR to be better up close. That was, we thought, the whole point of the rebalance. To make the rifles fit their roles. Hasn't worked out that way yet Assault ak.0 w/ScR+ScP 4LYFE
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix 424	Posted - 2014.03.07 16:35:00 - [32] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: The DPS on CR is still good, as that is what is is intended for The bullets are weak, but the RoF is high to make up for that So yes the CR will be badass But that is assuming you hit every shot CR lacks the range of RR it lacks the OHK of ScR and it is not as reliable as AR which is more accurate along with larger clipsize Can we please wait until 1.8 before OP complaints Easiest to fit gun Most damage per trigger pull (and this one is not even close) 102.5% average damage insanely good hip fire Good scope Yeah, CR is the best rifle hands down. Most applied DPS, best damage profile, easiest to fit, this thing is so overpowered even tankers are taking notice.
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 184	Posted - 2014.03.07 16:56:00 - [33] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Master Smurf wrote: Dont cry for me SCR - Charged shots have no issue with armor and have range on their side Also the faster they tear through the first level of defense they can sink a few charged shots (if necessary) to finish off foes Yep, because I just LOVE spending two seconds charging my rifle for a single shot. I will definitely enjoy charging for six seconds to kill a single suit, while my suit is rapidly whittled away RR - Full auto from range will be just fine The ACR wont be doing close to its full damage outside of its range. And the AR will be doing even less. But the ACR's effective range (optimal, even) extends over most relevant ranges for assaulting (i.e. null cannons and their surrounds). This is all about the AR vs ACR so why not leave the other stuff out and tone down the hype subject. On this I have no argument as I think they need to change the AR to be better up close. That was, we thought, the whole point of the rebalance. To make the rifles fit their roles. Hasn't worked out that way yet So sorry - The rebalance wasnt to make your AR better. It was to make all rifles more even vs other weapons. The AR was still to be the least effective outside its range. This was heralded even before the introduction of the RR and CR so the rebalance wasnt supposed to change that. The RR / CR larger nerfs bring the AR a bit closer but we will have to see if it actually works in game. On your ScR hyperbole - I'll leave you in your delusion or would hope you learn how to use the weapon better. If you meant vs Heavies, then we all have that issue. "Shine bright like a diamond"
Love-alot Bear Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 0	Posted - 2014.03.07 17:14:00 - [34] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: The DPS on CR is still good, as that is what is is intended for The bullets are weak, but the RoF is high to make up for that So yes the CR will be badass But that is assuming you hit every shot CR lacks the range of RR it lacks the OHK of ScR and it is not as reliable as AR which is more accurate along with larger clipsize Can we please wait until 1.8 before OP complaints I have 700k skill points just tried out the cr it's op. I went 14\3 with it. It's accurate and it's fast. Imo it needs more kick and sharpshooter skill gone


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