DUST Search - I have a Physics Question

Aisha Ctarl wrote:

Buster Friently wrote:

Aisha Ctarl wrote:

How is it that a titanium sabot round shot out of the RR out ranges amplified light (read LASER) from the ScR?

I would assume the muzzle velocity of the RR is around 1200m/s which is 2684.32 mph. The muzzle velocity of the ScR is 186,000 miles per second which is 669,600,000 mph. Gravity over time would pull the titanium round out of the air (bullet drop). While gravity does have an effect on light, unless the source of gravity is extremely strong (black hole, neutron star), the laser produced by the ScR should out range every single last thing on the battlefield. Technically, if bullet travel time was introduced into DUST, the ScR would essentially have none unless CCP wanted to be super technical and crunch the numbers on how long it took for light to travel say 60m - hint, online calculators can't even crunch the number.

So the question stands, why does a titanium round moving at 2684.32 mph out range a beam of light moving at 669,600,000 mph?

Dispersion.

Yes I know about dispersion, but the beam being emitted by the ScR is far stronger and has more focusing mirrors than say your average laser pointer which has around a 2000 yard range which is 1828 meters.

"War is not hell, far from it. War is beautiful. War is divine." - Grand Admiral Mekioth Sarum

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Aisha Ctarl Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3829	Posted - 2014.03.06 21:36:00 - [1] - Quote How is it that a titanium sabot round shot out of the RR out ranges amplified light (read LASER) from the ScR? I would assume the muzzle velocity of the RR is around 1200m/s which is 2684.32 mph. The muzzle velocity of the ScR is 186,000 miles per second which is 669,600,000 mph. Gravity over time would pull the titanium round out of the air (bullet drop). While gravity does have an effect on light, unless the source of gravity is extremely strong (black hole, neutron star), the laser produced by the ScR should out range every single last thing on the battlefield. Technically, if bullet travel time was introduced into DUST, the ScR would essentially have none unless CCP wanted to be super technical and crunch the numbers on how long it took for light to travel say 60m - hint, online calculators can't even crunch the number. So the question stands, why does a titanium round moving at 2684.32 mph out range a beam of light moving at 669,600,000 mph? I could list the ways how we Amarr are better than you, but your lesser mind wouldn't comprehend it.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1933	Posted - 2014.03.06 21:37:00 - [2] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: How is it that a titanium sabot round shot out of the RR out ranges amplified light (read LASER) from the ScR? I would assume the muzzle velocity of the RR is around 1200m/s which is 2684.32 mph. The muzzle velocity of the ScR is 186,000 miles per second which is 669,600,000 mph. Gravity over time would pull the titanium round out of the air (bullet drop). While gravity does have an effect on light, unless the source of gravity is extremely strong (black hole, neutron star), the laser produced by the ScR should out range every single last thing on the battlefield. Technically, if bullet travel time was introduced into DUST, the ScR would essentially have none unless CCP wanted to be super technical and crunch the numbers on how long it took for light to travel say 60m - hint, online calculators can't even crunch the number. So the question stands, why does a titanium round moving at 2684.32 mph out range a beam of light moving at 669,600,000 mph? Dispersion.
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2601	Posted - 2014.03.06 21:37:00 - [3] - Quote 'Cause wizards I'll start my own war, with hookers, and blackjack! In fact forget the war and the blackjack.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1463	Posted - 2014.03.06 21:38:00 - [4] - Quote Answer: CCP Also: video game This is what I hate about video games. These limitations have to exist for the sake of game play. Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 164	Posted - 2014.03.06 21:39:00 - [5] - Quote Good, because yes. I was going to use that Installation... Flashlights: Good because yes.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7937	Posted - 2014.03.06 21:41:00 - [6] - Quote Heat dissipation? "War is not hell, far from it. War is beautiful. War is divine." - Grand Admiral Mekioth Sarum
Aisha Ctarl Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3832	Posted - 2014.03.06 21:41:00 - [7] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Aisha Ctarl wrote: How is it that a titanium sabot round shot out of the RR out ranges amplified light (read LASER) from the ScR? I would assume the muzzle velocity of the RR is around 1200m/s which is 2684.32 mph. The muzzle velocity of the ScR is 186,000 miles per second which is 669,600,000 mph. Gravity over time would pull the titanium round out of the air (bullet drop). While gravity does have an effect on light, unless the source of gravity is extremely strong (black hole, neutron star), the laser produced by the ScR should out range every single last thing on the battlefield. Technically, if bullet travel time was introduced into DUST, the ScR would essentially have none unless CCP wanted to be super technical and crunch the numbers on how long it took for light to travel say 60m - hint, online calculators can't even crunch the number. So the question stands, why does a titanium round moving at 2684.32 mph out range a beam of light moving at 669,600,000 mph? Dispersion. Yes I know about dispersion, but the beam being emitted by the ScR is far stronger and has more focusing mirrors than say your average laser pointer which has around a 2000 yard range which is 1828 meters. I could list the ways how we Amarr are better than you, but your lesser mind wouldn't comprehend it.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7937	Posted - 2014.03.06 21:43:00 - [8] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: Buster Friently wrote: Aisha Ctarl wrote: How is it that a titanium sabot round shot out of the RR out ranges amplified light (read LASER) from the ScR? I would assume the muzzle velocity of the RR is around 1200m/s which is 2684.32 mph. The muzzle velocity of the ScR is 186,000 miles per second which is 669,600,000 mph. Gravity over time would pull the titanium round out of the air (bullet drop). While gravity does have an effect on light, unless the source of gravity is extremely strong (black hole, neutron star), the laser produced by the ScR should out range every single last thing on the battlefield. Technically, if bullet travel time was introduced into DUST, the ScR would essentially have none unless CCP wanted to be super technical and crunch the numbers on how long it took for light to travel say 60m - hint, online calculators can't even crunch the number. So the question stands, why does a titanium round moving at 2684.32 mph out range a beam of light moving at 669,600,000 mph? Dispersion. Yes I know about dispersion, but the beam being emitted by the ScR is far stronger and has more focusing mirrors than say your average laser pointer which has around a 2000 yard range which is 1828 meters. Meh we came out of a dark age.....10,000 years ago....what do you expect from us hyper advanced space faring types? "War is not hell, far from it. War is beautiful. War is divine." - Grand Admiral Mekioth Sarum
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1937	Posted - 2014.03.06 21:44:00 - [9] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: Buster Friently wrote: Aisha Ctarl wrote: How is it that a titanium sabot round shot out of the RR out ranges amplified light (read LASER) from the ScR? I would assume the muzzle velocity of the RR is around 1200m/s which is 2684.32 mph. The muzzle velocity of the ScR is 186,000 miles per second which is 669,600,000 mph. Gravity over time would pull the titanium round out of the air (bullet drop). While gravity does have an effect on light, unless the source of gravity is extremely strong (black hole, neutron star), the laser produced by the ScR should out range every single last thing on the battlefield. Technically, if bullet travel time was introduced into DUST, the ScR would essentially have none unless CCP wanted to be super technical and crunch the numbers on how long it took for light to travel say 60m - hint, online calculators can't even crunch the number. So the question stands, why does a titanium round moving at 2684.32 mph out range a beam of light moving at 669,600,000 mph? Dispersion. Yes I know about dispersion, but the beam being emitted by the ScR is far stronger and has more focusing mirrors than say your average laser pointer which has around a 2000 yard range which is 1828 meters. A standard laser pointer can't even burn paper at point blank. Ask yourself why we don't have laser weapons heavily in our real life militaries yet. The main reason is dispersion causing the beam intensity to drop off dramatically with the amount of air passed through. So, it isn't so much a speed thing, as a range thing. Firing a laser through air causes a lot of the energy in the beam to bleed off the more distant the target is. The more powerful the beam, the more dispersion will bleed off energy as well. To actually do military value damage, you need a very high power beam to overcome this.
Fraceska Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 553	Posted - 2014.03.06 21:46:00 - [10] - Quote They're traveling faster than that. From a handheld device no less. Those are pretty powerful super conductors. The lag on the bullet must also be strong enough to resist those forces without it disintegrating before impact. I can't justify the range thing. Each world also has different pressures, different composition of gases. Slightly different gravity. All of those effects would be fun if they could be simulated in game.

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2772	Posted - 2014.03.06 21:46:00 - [11] - Quote Focal range. Beyond a certain distance it goes out of focus. Also atmospheric refraction. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 10539	Posted - 2014.03.06 21:46:00 - [12] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: Yes I know about dispersion, but the beam being emitted by the ScR is far stronger and has more focusing mirrors than say your average laser pointer which has around a 2000 yard range which is 1828 meters. Irrelevant. The intensity of the beam will drop off massively over distance, regardless of how many focusing mirrors you have. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Fraceska Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 553	Posted - 2014.03.06 21:51:00 - [13] - Quote If we can use lasers from kilometers away to shoot down missiles by hitting their detonators. I'm pretty sure in the far future we would be able to overcome atmospheric refraction and make viable handheld laser weapons. They have super conductors that allows the forge gun to fire rounds at 7 times the speed of sound from a man portable weapon. Pretty sure they can build a laser weapon lethal at kilometers.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1941	Posted - 2014.03.06 21:53:00 - [14] - Quote Fraceska wrote: If we can use lasers from kilometers away to shoot down missiles by hitting their detonators. I'm pretty sure in the far future we would be able to overcome atmospheric refraction and make viable handheld laser weapons. They have super conductors that allows the forge gun to fire rounds at 7 times the speed of sound from a man portable weapon. Pretty sure they can build a laser weapon lethal at kilometers. True, but then again, in a "real life" equivalent of this game, wouldn't they just nuke it all from orbit. To be sure. Not a very fun game then though.
Fraceska Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 553	Posted - 2014.03.06 21:57:00 - [15] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Fraceska wrote: If we can use lasers from kilometers away to shoot down missiles by hitting their detonators. I'm pretty sure in the far future we would be able to overcome atmospheric refraction and make viable handheld laser weapons. They have super conductors that allows the forge gun to fire rounds at 7 times the speed of sound from a man portable weapon. Pretty sure they can build a laser weapon lethal at kilometers. True, but then again, in a "real life" equivalent of this game, wouldn't they just nuke it all from orbit. To be sure. Not a very fun game then though. Not unless you have a way to preserve all the infrastructure that you're actually fighting over. Which makes OBs seem really out of place. Every time you fight over a district and a single OB is used you would have to rebuild. Those weapons would just incinerate everything. Also at those levels of power leave behind a fair amount of lethal radiation. So you would also need a way to soak that up as well. To much of a burden to use OBs as anything other than a last resort kind of weapon.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1941	Posted - 2014.03.06 21:58:00 - [16] - Quote Fraceska wrote: Buster Friently wrote: Fraceska wrote: If we can use lasers from kilometers away to shoot down missiles by hitting their detonators. I'm pretty sure in the far future we would be able to overcome atmospheric refraction and make viable handheld laser weapons. They have super conductors that allows the forge gun to fire rounds at 7 times the speed of sound from a man portable weapon. Pretty sure they can build a laser weapon lethal at kilometers. True, but then again, in a "real life" equivalent of this game, wouldn't they just nuke it all from orbit. To be sure. Not a very fun game then though. Not unless you have a way to preserve all the infrastructure that you're actually fighting over. Which makes OBs seem really out of place. Every time you fight over a district and a single OB is used you would have to rebuild. Those weapons would just incinerate everything. Also at those levels of power leave behind a fair amount of lethal radiation. So you would also need a way to soak that up as well. To much of a burden to use OBs as anything other than a last resort kind of weapon. Let me phrase this more simply, without my Aliens reference. If you have the tech to put a combat ship in orbit, you've already won the ground battle.
Denak Kalamari Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 1237	Posted - 2014.03.06 22:01:00 - [17] - Quote I made an entire article about the Scrambler rifle and its mechanics, and I have my own theory about how it works. Basically, it doesn't fire a laser beam, but rather a bolt of plasma induced by lasers, the same way phasers in Star Trek don't use light primarily for the charge. Holding the trigger on a scrambler rifle will fire lasers at the focusing crystal, causing a reaction and heating up a pack of neon gas which eventually turns into plasma. Release the trigger, and the magnetic lock is released, sending the bolt on its way. That's just my fan theory though, and is mostly just scifi technobabble to make it sound semi-reasonable. Grahisha of ILF // Writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier // Latest entry published Feb. 10th
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 4513	Posted - 2014.03.06 22:05:00 - [18] - Quote Also, the Scrambler does not do damage in the way of a typical laser. It uses the laser to induce a channel of plasma. Do in short, it is heating the air it passes to into plasma. Imagine how much energy is wasted. This has the benefit of producing the highest damage when up close; in contrast, the Laser Rifle has to be regulated to a certain range. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1943	Posted - 2014.03.06 22:10:00 - [19] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Also, the Scrambler does not do damage in the way of a typical laser. It uses the laser to induce a channel of plasma. Do in short, it is heating the air it passes to into plasma. Imagine how much energy is wasted. This has the benefit of producing the highest damage when up close; in contrast, the Laser Rifle has to be regulated to a certain range. take a look at this: http://www.army.mil/article/82262/
Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 530	Posted - 2014.03.06 22:13:00 - [20] - Quote Light disperses. DUST doesn't model projectiles, so bullets don't drop over any distance. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.

Buster Friently Rosen Association 1943	Posted - 2014.03.06 22:14:00 - [21] - Quote Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: Light disperses. DUST doesn't model projectiles, so bullets don't drop over any distance. Dust does model projectiles on some weapons, like the MD, and the flaylock.
Martyr Saboteur Amarrtyrs 196	Posted - 2014.03.06 22:18:00 - [22] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Aisha Ctarl wrote: Yes I know about dispersion, but the beam being emitted by the ScR is far stronger and has more focusing mirrors than say your average laser pointer which has around a 2000 yard range which is 1828 meters. Irrelevant. The intensity of the beam will drop off massively over distance, regardless of how many focusing mirrors you have. Also Irrelevant. The question is "why don't lasers outrange railguns?" In reality, railguns do outrange lasers... kinda. Technically a railgun could have infinite range in the vacuum of space, but it wouldn't make a very good weapon if it took anywhere from a few minutes to a few million years for the round to reach the target now would it? Its effective range would be short, but its absolute range is infinite. Meanwhile, a laser has a finite but still extremely long range. It effective range would be very long, measured in 100s of kilometers, rather than just meters. However, after a few minutes, the light disperses to a point that it would no longer be suitable for combat purposes. Railgun:[Effective Range][---------------------Absolute Range-------------------->>>>>>>>Infinity Laser: [---------------------Effective Range--------------------][ ---------Absolute Range---------] So, while a railgun technically outranges a laser, the laser would still be a better choice for long distance combat. With good foresight, tracking, or a way to see into the future, a railgun would be better, but for every other time, a laser would be the best choice. Totally not Fizzer94's forum alt. Definitely just a random dude.
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 699	Posted - 2014.03.06 22:20:00 - [23] - Quote Because some light is reflected off the particles that pass though the beam. Even if the beam itself is just burning the particles it's still using up energy to do so. My question is how does the forge gun hit the broad side of a barn with such a short barrel. CCP your matchmaking still sucks. Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
Beck Weathers Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 664	Posted - 2014.03.06 22:23:00 - [24] - Quote The beam continues much farther beyond the RR but around 80m it goes from melt face to tickles your junk. These forums must be located in the Californin country side, there is whine as far as the eye can see.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 1463	Posted - 2014.03.06 22:26:00 - [25] - Quote If it were for physics, you probably wouldn't have lasers. Light is pretty quick, so shots wouldn't have travel time. Assuming shields are like a magnetics repulsion system acting as a medium, light should be weaker against shields rather than armor in terms if efficiency. Assuming suits have thick plating, you shouldn't kill anyone super quick, amplified or not. Light shouldn't be visible if it's infrared. I don't even understand how you can store energy to create light in the weapon battery... This is a game that barely uses the laws of physics. Deal with it.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 680	Posted - 2014.03.06 22:28:00 - [26] - Quote Atmospheric dispersion?
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 10562	Posted - 2014.03.06 22:31:00 - [27] - Quote Martyr Saboteur wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Aisha Ctarl wrote: Yes I know about dispersion, but the beam being emitted by the ScR is far stronger and has more focusing mirrors than say your average laser pointer which has around a 2000 yard range which is 1828 meters. Irrelevant. The intensity of the beam will drop off massively over distance, regardless of how many focusing mirrors you have. Also Irrelevant. No, it isn't. It doesn't matter how many focusing mirrors you have - the beam will still disperse over distance significantly. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1737	Posted - 2014.03.07 01:31:00 - [28] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: How is it that a titanium sabot round shot out of the RR out ranges amplified light (read LASER) from the ScR? I would assume the muzzle velocity of the RR is around 1200m/s which is 2684.32 mph. The muzzle velocity of the ScR is 186,000 miles per second which is 669,600,000 mph. Gravity over time would pull the titanium round out of the air (bullet drop). While gravity does have an effect on light, unless the source of gravity is extremely strong (black hole, neutron star), the laser produced by the ScR should out range every single last thing on the battlefield. Technically, if bullet travel time was introduced into DUST, the ScR would essentially have none unless CCP wanted to be super technical and crunch the numbers on how long it took for light to travel say 60m - hint, online calculators can't even crunch the number. So the question stands, why does a titanium round moving at 2684.32 mph out range a beam of light moving at 669,600,000 mph? Atmospheric DUST. <---- see what i did there ^^ There's also coherence length/time. Minmatar engineering is far superior. The thing to throw downrange is mass. Alas, Ammarian engineers' minds are clouded from all the 'radiant' drivel in their funny book. Go figure. I support SP rollover.
Vegetation Monster KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 254	Posted - 2014.03.07 01:35:00 - [29] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: How is it that a titanium sabot round shot out of the RR out ranges amplified light (read LASER) from the ScR? I would assume the muzzle velocity of the RR is around 1200m/s which is 2684.32 mph. The muzzle velocity of the ScR is 186,000 miles per second which is 669,600,000 mph. Gravity over time would pull the titanium round out of the air (bullet drop). While gravity does have an effect on light, unless the source of gravity is extremely strong (black hole, neutron star), the laser produced by the ScR should out range every single last thing on the battlefield. Technically, if bullet travel time was introduced into DUST, the ScR would essentially have none unless CCP wanted to be super technical and crunch the numbers on how long it took for light to travel say 60m - hint, online calculators can't even crunch the number. So the question stands, why does a titanium round moving at 2684.32 mph out range a beam of light moving at 669,600,000 mph? the concentrated light beam rapidly loses energy as energy becomes useless turning into heat. B Double O T Y
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 1925	Posted - 2014.03.07 02:12:00 - [30] - Quote You could ask the asme thing in EVE. Why doesn't my lazor go on forever? Because Balance. Because you Wanted to be Something your Not.



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