DUST Search - I have a Physics Question

Buster Friently wrote:

Aisha Ctarl wrote:

Buster Friently wrote:

Aisha Ctarl wrote:

How is it that a titanium sabot round shot out of the RR out ranges amplified light (read LASER) from the ScR?

I would assume the muzzle velocity of the RR is around 1200m/s which is 2684.32 mph. The muzzle velocity of the ScR is 186,000 miles per second which is 669,600,000 mph. Gravity over time would pull the titanium round out of the air (bullet drop). While gravity does have an effect on light, unless the source of gravity is extremely strong (black hole, neutron star), the laser produced by the ScR should out range every single last thing on the battlefield. Technically, if bullet travel time was introduced into DUST, the ScR would essentially have none unless CCP wanted to be super technical and crunch the numbers on how long it took for light to travel say 60m - hint, online calculators can't even crunch the number.

So the question stands, why does a titanium round moving at 2684.32 mph out range a beam of light moving at 669,600,000 mph?

Dispersion.

Yes I know about dispersion, but the beam being emitted by the ScR is far stronger and has more focusing mirrors than say your average laser pointer which has around a 2000 yard range which is 1828 meters.

A standard laser pointer can't even burn paper at point blank. Ask yourself why we don't have laser weapons heavily in our real life militaries yet. The main reason is dispersion causing the beam intensity to drop off dramatically with the amount of air passed through. So, it isn't so much a speed thing, as a range thing. Firing a laser through air causes a lot of the energy in the beam to bleed off the more distant the target is. The more powerful the beam, the more dispersion will bleed off energy as well. To actually do military value damage, you need a very high power beam to overcome this.

Pages: 1 [2] :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1984	Posted - 2014.03.07 02:34:00 - [31] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: How is it that a titanium sabot round shot out of the RR out ranges amplified light (read LASER) from the ScR? I would assume the muzzle velocity of the RR is around 1200m/s which is 2684.32 mph. The muzzle velocity of the ScR is 186,000 miles per second which is 669,600,000 mph. Gravity over time would pull the titanium round out of the air (bullet drop). While gravity does have an effect on light, unless the source of gravity is extremely strong (black hole, neutron star), the laser produced by the ScR should out range every single last thing on the battlefield. Technically, if bullet travel time was introduced into DUST, the ScR would essentially have none unless CCP wanted to be super technical and crunch the numbers on how long it took for light to travel say 60m - hint, online calculators can't even crunch the number. So the question stands, why does a titanium round moving at 2684.32 mph out range a beam of light moving at 669,600,000 mph? the titanium round is made of mmatter while the laser round or beam is made of light therefore it disperses as it travels away from the source technically the laser will travel indefinitely but the energy will quickly dissipate to where after a certain range it will be insignificant. In a real scenario a laser weapon would have longer range but also a very high damage drop off unless it is being fired from an extremely advanced and powerful laser something that just can't be contained in a hand held device. Take for example a laser pointer after a couple of meters the light is still visible but it's blurry and the dot is huge. Plus the plates electro magnetic field will have all sorts of effects on the laser. As for the rail shot it would have a shorter range than the laser but the damage drop off would be very gentle and not as steep although bullet drop would take into effect before the loss in velocity becomes significant. But it wouldn't be affected by any electromagnetic fields and it won't disperse like a laser since the shot is matter not energized photons. For the Federation!
Bojo The Mighty L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 3405	Posted - 2014.03.07 03:06:00 - [32] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: How is it that a titanium sabot round shot out of the RR out ranges amplified light (read LASER) from the ScR? In reality it shouldn't. Currently there is a laser, used to convert the air in this prototype vessel into plasma as means of propulsion, anyways the laser is powerful enough that above the test site they have a lead block hanging over the laser to prevent damaging satellites. However the same principle of radio waves applies to all light, so with distance it dissipates until it is too weak. I tried Redline Railgunning
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7956	Posted - 2014.03.07 03:08:00 - [33] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Aisha Ctarl wrote: How is it that a titanium sabot round shot out of the RR out ranges amplified light (read LASER) from the ScR? In reality it shouldn't. Currently there is a laser, used to convert the air in this prototype vessel into plasma as means of propulsion, anyways the laser is powerful enough that above the test site they have a lead block hanging over the laser to prevent damaging satellites. However the same principle of radio waves applies to all light, so with distance it dissipates until it is too weak. Ghidorah Defies Logic! "War is not hell, far from it. War is beautiful. War is divine." - Grand Admiral Mekioth Sarum
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3314	Posted - 2014.03.07 03:23:00 - [34] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Aisha Ctarl wrote: Buster Friently wrote: Aisha Ctarl wrote: How is it that a titanium sabot round shot out of the RR out ranges amplified light (read LASER) from the ScR? I would assume the muzzle velocity of the RR is around 1200m/s which is 2684.32 mph. The muzzle velocity of the ScR is 186,000 miles per second which is 669,600,000 mph. Gravity over time would pull the titanium round out of the air (bullet drop). While gravity does have an effect on light, unless the source of gravity is extremely strong (black hole, neutron star), the laser produced by the ScR should out range every single last thing on the battlefield. Technically, if bullet travel time was introduced into DUST, the ScR would essentially have none unless CCP wanted to be super technical and crunch the numbers on how long it took for light to travel say 60m - hint, online calculators can't even crunch the number. So the question stands, why does a titanium round moving at 2684.32 mph out range a beam of light moving at 669,600,000 mph? Dispersion. Yes I know about dispersion, but the beam being emitted by the ScR is far stronger and has more focusing mirrors than say your average laser pointer which has around a 2000 yard range which is 1828 meters. A standard laser pointer can't even burn paper at point blank. Ask yourself why we don't have laser weapons heavily in our real life militaries yet. The main reason is dispersion causing the beam intensity to drop off dramatically with the amount of air passed through. So, it isn't so much a speed thing, as a range thing. Firing a laser through air causes a lot of the energy in the beam to bleed off the more distant the target is. The more powerful the beam, the more dispersion will bleed off energy as well. To actually do military value damage, you need a very high power beam to overcome this. This. Air isn't a very friendly medium for lasers Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. I've got 3k likes, I'll double post if I want to dammit!
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 811	Posted - 2014.03.07 03:32:00 - [35] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: How is it that a titanium sabot round shot out of the RR out ranges amplified light (read LASER) from the ScR? I would assume the muzzle velocity of the RR is around 1200m/s which is 2684.32 mph. The muzzle velocity of the ScR is 186,000 miles per second which is 669,600,000 mph. Gravity over time would pull the titanium round out of the air (bullet drop). While gravity does have an effect on light, unless the source of gravity is extremely strong (black hole, neutron star), the laser produced by the ScR should out range every single last thing on the battlefield. Technically, if bullet travel time was introduced into DUST, the ScR would essentially have none unless CCP wanted to be super technical and crunch the numbers on how long it took for light to travel say 60m - hint, online calculators can't even crunch the number. So the question stands, why does a titanium round moving at 2684.32 mph out range a beam of light moving at 669,600,000 mph? Dispersion. Laser light has to be all the same frequency and all in phase by definition. Water vapour in the air gets heated and distorts the density of the air, causing the beam to be dispersed and out of phase. The air itself gets heated, causing the same effect. Think of heat waves coming off a hot road in the summer. Anything else in the air like dust or smoke will cause more of the same. It all adds up to lots of turbulence and micro currents in the air between the gun and target. The best analogy I can think of is a flame thrower. Having said this, the laser should be instant hit, no matter what the in-game range. Munch Minmatar Patriot (Level 7) Dedicated Sniper
Chesyre Armundsen Thanes Of Dust 451	Posted - 2014.03.07 03:38:00 - [36] - Quote Alright, I'm seeing a lot of misreading of the OP as thhe question pertains to the Scrambler Rifle and not the Laser Rifle. I won't reiterate anything about lasers and dispersion in atmosphere over distance because that has been done to death. What I would like to point out is that the description of the ScR doesn't say anything about it being a laser weapon at all. It's described as "...a pulse of sinuous energy..." which i'll take the liberty of saying is probably closer to a particle beam weapon. Not plasma, nor simply focused light. I imagine that the power consumption for the firing mechanism would be the greatest factor limiting total effective range. At present it takes massive machines and massive amounts of energy to create anything near a weaponized system similar to these. Even if the tech is developed to the point where our energy weapons are viable they're output would be limited to the power available. A soldiers rifle would have far less range and power than those weapons used in space combat. All this taken into consideration I would theorize that the ScR doesn't pack the punch to spit lethal supercharged particles past that range, while the electromagnets in the RR are a bit more efficient. Likewise the LR hardware and power output is optimized for the desired combat range. shrug Leave it to the Amarr to have a weapon that's all flash -_^ If all the rifles were the size of a Forge Gun then the power output, and range would also be bumped up, but nothing is infinite. Even in space the light of distant grande battles may be seen years after their completion simply because it took that long for the light to reach you. Like looking at starlight from long dead stars... Mihi gravato Deus - "Let God lay the burden on me!"
Toby Flenderson research lab 323	Posted - 2014.03.07 05:22:00 - [37] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: Buster Friently wrote: Aisha Ctarl wrote: How is it that a titanium sabot round shot out of the RR out ranges amplified light (read LASER) from the ScR? I would assume the muzzle velocity of the RR is around 1200m/s which is 2684.32 mph. The muzzle velocity of the ScR is 186,000 miles per second which is 669,600,000 mph. Gravity over time would pull the titanium round out of the air (bullet drop). While gravity does have an effect on light, unless the source of gravity is extremely strong (black hole, neutron star), the laser produced by the ScR should out range every single last thing on the battlefield. Technically, if bullet travel time was introduced into DUST, the ScR would essentially have none unless CCP wanted to be super technical and crunch the numbers on how long it took for light to travel say 60m - hint, online calculators can't even crunch the number. So the question stands, why does a titanium round moving at 2684.32 mph out range a beam of light moving at 669,600,000 mph? Dispersion. Yes I know about dispersion, but the beam being emitted by the ScR is far stronger and has more focusing mirrors than say your average laser pointer which has around a 2000 yard range which is 1828 meters. We're all just listing factors that determine the effectiveness of the two weapons. This is worthless unless anyone knows the relationships between them which we don't because it's a video game. I will say this though: It seems like you're being very generous with the mirrors. I agree that, unless we break escape velocity, gravity will ultimately diminish the range of the RR while dust/air would be the only obstruction of light. The only thing is that it seems like you'd need an incredibly powerful source of energy to produce a "scrambler charged shot". This is what i find more unrealistic in this scenario.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1570	Posted - 2014.03.07 06:39:00 - [38] - Quote Lasers probably work in space because... vacuum. It should actually be the shortest range weapon on the ground due to material that the laser is being transmitted through. One model for this is Rayleigh scattering for electromagnetic waves : P = Po * exp (- 1/sigmax) This is due to the photons "reflecting" off of molecules. Low molecule density means longer range. Nothing can move faster than the speed of light. Even in air. As we know of today. Drop it like its hat*.
Asha Starwind DUST University Ivy League 468	Posted - 2014.03.07 06:59:00 - [39] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: How is it that a titanium sabot round shot out of the RR out ranges amplified light (read LASER) from the ScR? Easy, atmospheric dispersion. Quote: I would assume the muzzle velocity of the RR is around 1200m/s which is 2684.32 mph. The muzzle velocity of the ScR is 186,000 miles per second which is 669,600,000 mph. Gravity over time would pull the titanium round out of the air (bullet drop). While gravity does have an effect on light, unless the source of gravity is extremely strong (black hole, neutron star), the laser produced by the ScR should out range every single last thing on the battlefield. Technically, if bullet travel time was introduced into DUST, the ScR would essentially have none unless CCP wanted to be super technical and crunch the numbers on how long it took for light to travel say 60m - hint, online calculators can't even crunch the number. So the question stands, why does a titanium round moving at 2684.32 mph out range a beam of light moving at 669,600,000 mph? Speed doesn't matter it's size and mass, photons can't travel very far on their own (unless inside a vacuum); see photon-interactions. Example if our photon was a nutjob on a moped driving down the Los Angeles freeway in the wrong direction during rush hour it would only make it so far before it gets nailed by a Jetta. Our metal slug would be a tank in the same scenario it would just go where it damn well pleases until it runs out of gas. If there wasn't any traffic the moped(photon) would easily go for miles beyond what the tank could. 32db Mad Bomber.


Pages: 1 [2] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page