DUST Search - was the ar nerf justified?

RINON114 wrote:

cranium79 wrote:

gek38 35.7 -> 31.5, duvolle 37.4 -> 33

sl4 rr 45 -> 39, ish rr 47.19 -> 40 (assault varients)

if ccp would (should) have just left the ar alone, the rr would still dominate in range and power, with a slightly smaller clip even after the nerf.

yes the rr got a bigger percentage nerf (which was needed), but since the ar got a sizable nerf too, it's back to square one. this is not balance.

i would have been perfectly ok with the nerfed rr stats, if the ar stats did not get nerfed, but this was unexpected. i could even have excepted nerfing the ar like making the duvolle have gek stats and the gek having standard ar stats, but this was overkill/nerf... really, the duvolle is now weaker than the standard ar used to be... dumb What?

.

i think i might be looking to switch to rr or sr assault varients in the future. i need to see how bad things actually are after 1.8 drops. i need my dps back.

I couldn't agree more. The AR needed a nerf but about half of what has been taken. Compared to the rail rifle it still sucks and there is no reason to use it. The RR still has more or less the same DPS but a much longer range, so the AR will always lose the majority of engagements considering that heavies will be CQC kings so there'll be no need for a CQC rifle.

Maybe CCP needs to do away with range altogether, because having a gun that is the same as another in everything but range is just stupid. It's like choosing not to level up sharpshooter back in Chrome if you choose the Assault Rifle.

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cranium79 ZionTCD 98	Posted - 2014.03.06 20:45:00 - [1] - Quote gek38 35.7 -> 31.5, duvolle 37.4 -> 33 sl4 rr 45 -> 39, ish rr 47.19 -> 40 (assault varients) if ccp would (should) have just left the ar alone, the rr would still dominate in range and power, with a slightly smaller clip even after the nerf. yes the rr got a bigger percentage nerf (which was needed), but since the ar got a sizable nerf too, it's back to square one. this is not balance. i would have been perfectly ok with the nerfed rr stats, if the ar stats did not get nerfed, but this was unexpected. i could even have excepted nerfing the ar like making the duvolle have gek stats and the gek having standard ar stats, but this was overkill/nerf... really, the duvolle is now weaker than the standard ar used to be... dumb . i think i might be looking to switch to rr or sr assault varients in the future. i need to see how bad things actually are after 1.8 drops. i need my dps back.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1927	Posted - 2014.03.06 20:47:00 - [2] - Quote cranium79 wrote: gek38 35.7 -> 31.5, duvolle 37.4 -> 33 sl4 rr 45 -> 39, ish rr 47.19 -> 40 (assault varients) if ccp would (should) have just left the ar alone, the rr would still dominate in range and power, with a slightly smaller clip even after the nerf. yes the rr got a bigger percentage nerf (which was needed), but since the ar got a sizable nerf too, it's back to square one. this is not balance. i would have been perfectly ok with the nerfed rr stats, if the ar stats did not get nerfed, but this was unexpected. i could even have excepted nerfing the ar like making the duvolle have gek stats and the gek having standard ar stats, but this was overkill/nerf... really, the duvolle is now weaker than the standard ar used to be... dumb . i think i might be looking to switch to rr or sr assault varients in the future. i need to see how bad things actually are after 1.8 drops. i need my dps back. The AR getting a smaller nerf compared to the RR is not back to square one. It's a relative buff for the AR. Also, yes, it too, like all the bullet hose hitscan weapons needed a sizeable nerf.
Dauth Jenkins Ultramarine Corp 168	Posted - 2014.03.06 20:47:00 - [3] - Quote Personally I think the overall nerf was required, or else the old AR would have the old TTK and dominate Sees prototompers... Sees blueberries start to snipe... Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
8213 Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 1663	Posted - 2014.03.06 20:49:00 - [4] - Quote It has to play out. You can't go by just the numbers always. Once we get our hands on the guns, and see how the disperse, kick, handle, etc, then we can truly judge. If you went by just the numbers, then everybody would be using a Plasma Cannon... Fish in a bucket! Darken's Testament SKIPPY
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 2582	Posted - 2014.03.06 20:50:00 - [5] - Quote cranium79 wrote: gek38 35.7 -> 31.5, duvolle 37.4 -> 33 sl4 rr 45 -> 39, ish rr 47.19 -> 40 (assault varients) if ccp would (should) have just left the ar alone, the rr would still dominate in range and power, with a slightly smaller clip even after the nerf. yes the rr got a bigger percentage nerf (which was needed), but since the ar got a sizable nerf too, it's back to square one. this is not balance. i would have been perfectly ok with the nerfed rr stats, if the ar stats did not get nerfed, but this was unexpected. i could even have excepted nerfing the ar like making the duvolle have gek stats and the gek having standard ar stats, but this was overkill/nerf... really, the duvolle is now weaker than the standard ar used to be... dumb . i think i might be looking to switch to rr or sr assault varients in the future. i need to see how bad things actually are after 1.8 drops. i need my dps back. Nerf shouldn't be the word to what happened to rifles. Tanked is much better....proto weapons becoming less than the current std weapons? HMG gets a pass on a nerf and gets to keep their DPS...plus a resistance boost to rifles. At least give us back the 15% of damage from the rifle proficiency skill, CCP. weRideNDie2getha since 2010 RND's recruitment official phrase
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 10511	Posted - 2014.03.06 20:50:00 - [6] - Quote For the normal variant it's arguable. It should have a DPS advantage over other racial ARRs (because they have more range, amongst other things), so I think the nerf went a little too far in comparison but it may well have been necessary. What was completely unnecessary was the breach AR nerf, though. 340 --> 300 DPS. Really? It would have been fine with the pre-nerf stats with how terrible it was. It'd still be the weakest rifle - now it's the weakest hitscan weapon, full stop. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
cranium79 ZionTCD 98	Posted - 2014.03.06 20:51:00 - [7] - Quote Dauth Jenkins wrote: Personally I think the overall nerf was required, or else the old AR would have the old TTK and dominate really? the sl4 (advanced) would still have more dps than the duvolle (pro) @ 39 vs 37.4? having an advanced weapon out range and power a prototype weapon doesn't seem like nerfing the ar would do too much to ttk?
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1736	Posted - 2014.03.06 20:51:00 - [8] - Quote cranium79 wrote: gek38 35.7 -> 31.5, duvolle 37.4 -> 33 sl4 rr 45 -> 39, ish rr 47.19 -> 40 (assault varients) if ccp would (should) have just left the ar alone, the rr would still dominate in range and power, with a slightly smaller clip even after the nerf. yes the rr got a bigger percentage nerf (which was needed), but since the ar got a sizable nerf too, it's back to square one. this is not balance. i would have been perfectly ok with the nerfed rr stats, if the ar stats did not get nerfed, but this was unexpected. i could even have excepted nerfing the ar like making the duvolle have gek stats and the gek having standard ar stats, but this was overkill/nerf... really, the duvolle is now weaker than the standard ar used to be... dumb . i think i might be looking to switch to rr or sr assault varients in the future. i need to see how bad things actually are after 1.8 drops. i need my dps back. We all expected and for the most part welcomed a TTK adjustment. We all expected the AR would get the lightest nerf in the rebalancing. Not one of us expected this, or could have predicted it, imo. The Exile has been exiled. I support SP rollover.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 2582	Posted - 2014.03.06 20:51:00 - [9] - Quote duplicate weRideNDie2getha since 2010 RND's recruitment official phrase
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 2582	Posted - 2014.03.06 20:57:00 - [10] - Quote 8213 wrote: It has to play out. You can't go by just the numbers always. Once we get our hands on the guns, and see how the disperse, kick, handle, etc, then we can truly judge. If you went by just the numbers, then everybody would be using a Plasma Cannon... are they changing the way guns handle as well in 1.8? You want to know what it's going to feel like? Start a brand new character buy a STD rifle and try and kill a heavy or an hp-tanked assault/logi player. You can skill everything but rifle proficiency. And that will kill faster than the prototype in 1.8...imagine, then, what the std and adv rifles will feel like? weRideNDie2getha since 2010 RND's recruitment official phrase

knight of 6 SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1567	Posted - 2014.03.06 21:11:00 - [11] - Quote I don't know if it was justified, why are you asking me?! they're numbers on a sheet of paper. I need to play it first. compared to all the "niche" weapons they were pretty OP but whether the new numbers are any better i have no idea... GÇ£Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I am dampened.GÇ¥ Ko6 scout,
echo47 Minmatar Republic 211	Posted - 2014.03.06 21:12:00 - [12] - Quote It was completely justified, players asked for higher TTK. CCP listened to feedback and responded. I would rather look bad and win, than look good and lose.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance 532	Posted - 2014.03.06 21:21:00 - [13] - Quote cranium79 wrote: gek38 35.7 -> 31.5, duvolle 37.4 -> 33 sl4 rr 45 -> 39, ish rr 47.19 -> 40 (assault varients) if ccp would (should) have just left the ar alone, the rr would still dominate in range and power, with a slightly smaller clip even after the nerf. yes the rr got a bigger percentage nerf (which was needed), but since the ar got a sizable nerf too, it's back to square one. this is not balance. i would have been perfectly ok with the nerfed rr stats, if the ar stats did not get nerfed, but this was unexpected. i could even have excepted nerfing the ar like making the duvolle have gek stats and the gek having standard ar stats, but this was overkill/nerf... really, the duvolle is now weaker than the standard ar used to be... dumb . i think i might be looking to switch to rr or sr assault varients in the future. i need to see how bad things actually are after 1.8 drops. i need my dps back. I couldn't agree more. The AR needed a nerf but about half of what has been taken. Compared to the rail rifle it still sucks and there is no reason to use it. The RR still has more or less the same DPS but a much longer range, so the AR will always lose the majority of engagements considering that heavies will be CQC kings so there'll be no need for a CQC rifle. Maybe CCP needs to do away with range altogether, because having a gun that is the same as another in everything but range is just stupid. It's like choosing not to level up sharpshooter back in Chrome if you choose the Assault Rifle.
Vell0cet SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1026	Posted - 2014.03.06 22:11:00 - [14] - Quote RINON114 wrote: cranium79 wrote: gek38 35.7 -> 31.5, duvolle 37.4 -> 33 sl4 rr 45 -> 39, ish rr 47.19 -> 40 (assault varients) if ccp would (should) have just left the ar alone, the rr would still dominate in range and power, with a slightly smaller clip even after the nerf. yes the rr got a bigger percentage nerf (which was needed), but since the ar got a sizable nerf too, it's back to square one. this is not balance. i would have been perfectly ok with the nerfed rr stats, if the ar stats did not get nerfed, but this was unexpected. i could even have excepted nerfing the ar like making the duvolle have gek stats and the gek having standard ar stats, but this was overkill/nerf... really, the duvolle is now weaker than the standard ar used to be... dumb . i think i might be looking to switch to rr or sr assault varients in the future. i need to see how bad things actually are after 1.8 drops. i need my dps back. I couldn't agree more. The AR needed a nerf but about half of what has been taken. Compared to the rail rifle it still sucks and there is no reason to use it. The RR still has more or less the same DPS but a much longer range, so the AR will always lose the majority of engagements considering that heavies will be CQC kings so there'll be no need for a CQC rifle. Maybe CCP needs to do away with range altogether, because having a gun that is the same as another in everything but range is just stupid. It's like choosing not to level up sharpshooter back in Chrome if you choose the Assault Rifle. I think you guys are underestimating how a longer TTK will affect the gameplay. ARs have large clips and can fire with laser-like precision. Right now those advantages are pretty meaningless because people drop so fast, but when fights start to last longer, the ARs strengths will have a much greater impact in the outcome of who wins. The RR will be kicking all over the place with less bullets hitting the target. As a result, the RR will have to reload while the AR user can empty his clip in a few insanely accurate bursts. That's not to say the RR won't have a place with its range advantage, but higher TTK at long ranges means your enemy will have opportunities to scramble to cover. I also think we need to see how things play out on the battlefield before getting too worked up over spreadsheet data. I expect we will still need more balancing tweaks after 1.8 (especially to variants), but those can be made as small adjustments which should be a lot easier to manage. I also suspect the Magsec SMG will need a nerf (but I'm willing to wait until release to see how it all plays out). Best PvE idea ever!
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2546	Posted - 2014.03.06 22:14:00 - [15] - Quote Dauth Jenkins wrote: Personally I think the overall nerf was required, or else the old AR would have the old TTK and dominate Na, with the change to prof and dmg mods it would have been fine. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Vell0cet SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1027	Posted - 2014.03.06 22:21:00 - [16] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Dauth Jenkins wrote: Personally I think the overall nerf was required, or else the old AR would have the old TTK and dominate Na, with the change to prof and dmg mods it would have been fine. Prof and damage mods affect all weapons. I'm not sure if you remember what happened when the 1.6 hit detection fix dropped, but the hitscan weapons all became incredibly OP relative to everything else (nearly all weapons were pretty well-balanced in 1.5). This 1.8 change to all hitscan weapons is to compensate for the fact that they were previously balanced around bad hit detection that has since been fixed. Best PvE idea ever!
Kane Fyea 2624	Posted - 2014.03.06 22:30:00 - [17] - Quote Yes it needed a nerf (It waas clearly better then most other weapons in the game) but I do think it may need a small buff after 1.8. Just because one OP gun wasn't as OP as another doesn't make it not OP. Also you guys need to look at the big picture too not just the racial rifles.
Ace Starburst PiZzA DuDeS 61	Posted - 2014.03.06 22:59:00 - [18] - Quote Here's some numbers I whipped up today trying to divine CCP's decision making process. It doesn't seem so bad up close especially with the proposed Gallente Assault bonus that should add more maneuverability and strafing potential in close quarters. Just be sure to use cover as much as possible to cause Rail users as much of a penalty as possible. Proto Assault Rifle: 412.5 DPS 4.8 Seconds of Fire Proto Assault Combat Rifle: 420 DPS 3.4 (4.25 with maxed Minmatar Assault) Seconds of Fire Proto Rail Rifle: 397 DPS + .25 second charge up time Proto Assault Rail Rifle: 400 DPS +.25 second charge up time Proto Magsec SMG: 391.11 DPS + .3 second charge up time
Quik Django Nos Nothi 62	Posted - 2014.03.06 23:17:00 - [19] - Quote I really wish people would stop talking about the rifles as if they are the only weapons in the game. The AR was nerfed because it was so much more powerful than any other weapon in the game (except the other rifles!). Every single rifle needed nerfing, some more so than others and that's what happened and that is good. Django Quik's alt if you hadn't figured that one out!


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