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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2157
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Posted - 2014.03.06 11:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
We will see, Im usually one for theory crafting, like I did with shield tanks getting 20, 000 Pseudo HP from stacked hardners, but this time I'm happy to wait for now. We will just see if the Shotguns, Plcs, FG, need a buff for 1.9.
I'd say it still looks likely.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2159
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Posted - 2014.03.06 12:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Sinboto Simmons wrote:-Insert poor logic and or false info here-
We took a really hard hit this build....and essentially now cannot kill any armour tanked units. Our gun is not longer useful at long range where the RR is better, nor at mid or close where the CR and AR are better. We are also no longer the best 1v1 rifle, loosing out half the time on armoured targets......ScR..... in my eye, though I will need to test it, has been officially gimped by the whingers..... Small tweaks would have made the ScR balanced........ I almost wish we would stay with the current model of proficiency and skills and only tweak it slightly...... Whelp I hope we get a respect, I'm certainly pulling all of my points out of Amarr Dropsuits and weapons ands stock piling them for the HAV.
News flash, its meant to be tough to kill a Armour tanker with a Shield based weapon. Take this, [hands over M2091 Assault Submachine Gun], with profciency this gets 135% damage bonus to armour, still relatively effective at longer ranges. Also have this [hands over M8 Packed Locus Grenade] this is also very useful, tey cooking it a little first, you have time to nowadays.
Welcome to diversity, welcome to the real DUST 514.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2160
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Posted - 2014.03.06 12:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
ads alt wrote:True Adamance wrote:Sinboto Simmons wrote:-Insert poor logic and or false info here-
We took a really hard hit this build....and essentially now cannot kill any armour tanked units. Our gun is not longer useful at long range where the RR is better, nor at mid or close where the CR and AR are better. We are also no longer the best 1v1 rifle, loosing out half the time on armoured targets......ScR..... in my eye, though I will need to test it, has been officially gimped by the whingers..... Small tweaks would have made the ScR balanced........ I almost wish we would stay with the current model of proficiency and skills and only tweak it slightly...... Whelp I hope we get a respect, I'm certainly pulling all of my points out of Amarr Dropsuits and weapons ands stock piling them for the HAV. Laser burst weapons 115% shield damage 85% armor damage Balanced
135% Shields 80% Armour
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2160
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Posted - 2014.03.06 12:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sinboto Simmons wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:We will see, Im usually one for theory crafting, like I did with shield tanks getting 20, 000 Pseudo HP from stacked hardners, but this time I'm happy to wait for now. We will just see if the Shotguns, Plcs, FG, need a buff for 1.9.
I'd say it still looks likely. What no flaylock?
My apologies. And the flaylock.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2160
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Posted - 2014.03.06 12:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
ads alt wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:ads alt wrote:True Adamance wrote:Sinboto Simmons wrote:-Insert poor logic and or false info here-
We took a really hard hit this build....and essentially now cannot kill any armour tanked units. Our gun is not longer useful at long range where the RR is better, nor at mid or close where the CR and AR are better. We are also no longer the best 1v1 rifle, loosing out half the time on armoured targets......ScR..... in my eye, though I will need to test it, has been officially gimped by the whingers..... Small tweaks would have made the ScR balanced........ I almost wish we would stay with the current model of proficiency and skills and only tweak it slightly...... Whelp I hope we get a respect, I'm certainly pulling all of my points out of Amarr Dropsuits and weapons ands stock piling them for the HAV. Laser burst weapons 115% shield damage 85% armor damage Balanced 135% Shields 80% Armour That would make caldari extinct But 135% shields 65% armor
Sorry thought you thought thats what it currently is in 1.8. In 1.8 a Scrambler with Prof 5 will do 135% to Shields and 80% to armour, meanwhile a Combat with lrof 5 will 135% to armour and 80% to shields.
I personally think that balanced.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2162
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Posted - 2014.03.06 12:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
ads alt wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:ads alt wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
135% Shields 80% Armour
That would make caldari extinct But 135% shields 65% armor Sorry thought you thought thats what it currently is in 1.8. In 1.8 a Scrambler with Prof 5 will do 135% to Shields and 80% to armour, meanwhile a Combat with lrof 5 will 135% to armour and 80% to shields. I personally think that balanced. It iant You dont give a bonus to tank damage to something that has puny ass hp, its **** logic You will 3 shot anyones Medium or light frames shueld and deatroy thier armor, its not fair at all 110% or 115% shield damage 85% armor Balanced Ahuelds dont have enough hp to get extra damage done to them
No but shields have do have incredibly fast regen, 5secs to 100% on base regen alone. Add a proto energizer for an extra 80% plus regs in the lows for ridiculously low delays and you won't even bother with Shield Extenders.
Thats why its balanced, againat a shield tanker your gonna have considerably less time to hit them. Also in 1.7 CR : 95% S 135% A ScR: 135% 95% A
Thats what it currently is, all there doing is loppng 15% of the resistant tank type. Finally this is with Prof 5, which is very expensive.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2162
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Posted - 2014.03.06 12:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
ads alt wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:ads alt wrote:Monkey MAC wrote: Sorry thought you thought thats what it currently is in 1.8. In 1.8 a Scrambler with Prof 5 will do 135% to Shields and 80% to armour, meanwhile a Combat with lrof 5 will 135% to armour and 80% to shields.
I personally think that balanced.
It iant You dont give a bonus to tank damage to something that has puny ass hp, its **** logic You will 3 shot anyones Medium or light frames shueld and deatroy thier armor, its not fair at all 110% or 115% shield damage 85% armor Balanced Ahuelds dont have enough hp to get extra damage done to them No but shields have do have incredibly fast regen, 5secs to 100% on base regen alone. Add a proto energizer for an extra 80% plus regs in the lows for ridiculously low delays and you won't even bother with Shield Extenders. Thats why its balanced, againat a shield tanker your gonna have considerably less time to hit them. Also in 1.7 CR : 95% S 135% A ScR: 135% 95% A Thats what it currently is, all there doing is loppng 15% of the resistant tank type. Finally this is with Prof 5, which is very expensive. Like ive said all of 1.6 There is no point of fast regen is your tank goes down in less than a second Btw, this is tanks all over again Just cuz its expensive doesnt mean you get to auto win In 1.8 scr is auto win vs shield user, they stand 0 chance
There is plenty of point, this supposed to be the difference between tank types, Armour is all well and good having high EHP but unless you get some heals all thosd armour becomes more of a curse than a blessing. Also Combat Rifles absolutely shred armour, almost as efficently as the Scrambler does shields, maybe better infact.
We can't expect Shields and Armour to have similar tanking values, they are meant to be different playstyles. However have you tried dual-tanking? Its the best of both worlds, even though my Minnie has less EHP than frontline fits, its dual-tanking nature suits my style best.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2162
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Posted - 2014.03.06 12:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
ads alt wrote:Xander Mercy wrote:ads alt wrote:It iant You dont give a bonus to tank damage to something that has puny ass hp, its **** logic You will 3 shot anyones Medium or light frames shueld and deatroy thier armor, its not fair at all
110% or 115% shield damage 85% armor Balanced
Ahuelds dont have enough hp to get extra damage done to them untill the caldari heavies roam the battlefield and if you don't have fluxes that scrambler rifle shield damage bonus is going to look pretty balanced Light and medium frames are going to be severly underpowered, aldari, because the scr will be op as hell to them in 1.8, which isnt fair, 4 shotting the best cal assaults shields
They do that anyway! Here look at this [Hands over Combat Rifle] this will have an unbelievably tough time killing Shields and this [Hands over Mass Driver] absolutely useless against caldari, like really pointless.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2162
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Posted - 2014.03.06 13:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
ads alt wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:ads alt wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:ads alt wrote: It iant You dont give a bonus to tank damage to something that has puny ass hp, its **** logic You will 3 shot anyones Medium or light frames shueld and deatroy thier armor, its not fair at all
110% or 115% shield damage 85% armor Balanced
Ahuelds dont have enough hp to get extra damage done to them
No but shields have do have incredibly fast regen, 5secs to 100% on base regen alone. Add a proto energizer for an extra 80% plus regs in the lows for ridiculously low delays and you won't even bother with Shield Extenders. Thats why its balanced, againat a shield tanker your gonna have considerably less time to hit them. Also in 1.7 CR : 95% S 135% A ScR: 135% 95% A Thats what it currently is, all there doing is loppng 15% of the resistant tank type. Finally this is with Prof 5, which is very expensive. Like ive said all of 1.6 There is no point of fast regen is your tank goes down in less than a second Btw, this is tanks all over again Just cuz its expensive doesnt mean you get to auto win In 1.8 scr is auto win vs shield user, they stand 0 chance There is plenty of point, this supposed to be the difference between tank types, Armour is all well and good having high EHP but unless you get some heals all thosd armour becomes more of a curse than a blessing. Also Combat Rifles absolutely shred armour, almost as efficently as the Scrambler does shields, maybe better infact. We can't expect Shields and Armour to have similar tanking values, they are meant to be different playstyles. However have you tried dual-tanking? Its the best of both worlds, even though my Minnie has less EHP than frontline fits, its dual-tanking nature suits my style best. I shouldnt have to dual tank to properly shield tank And 4 sh8tting my snields is overpowered, no one will use shields in 1.8 if not a heavy because the scr will be op and shield tankers rr wont so enough dps to fight back, its just unfair
Yet a guy at the beginning of thread was complaing because the CR will have a higher dps and melt armour. It like somethings are OP to some things and UP to others, like I said to the other guy, if your concerns are everyone will armour tank, then evedyone will use CR and Mass Drivers, which will make shield tanking viable because there will be less Scrambler Rifles on the field.
if your concerns are that everyone will shield tank then everyone will use the Scrambler Rifle and flux grenades, which will make armour tanking viable because there will be less CRs on the field.
The only thing Shields need for balance are some hybrid modules, otherwise I suggest you try a different tank type because you obviously don't like having low EHP values and don't attribute enough value to the unbelievably fast regen. Balance is not when it takes 5secs to kill either tank type, balane is when the benifits of 1 don't greatly outweigh the benifits of the other.
Hybrid Modules and Some form of effect to shields from a rep tool will solve this. Prehaps removing the delay on a shield tank suit while being repped.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2162
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Posted - 2014.03.06 13:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Has it occurred to you that prehaps the reason we aren't convinced fast regen is pointless is because fast regen isn't pointless. If I have 300 shields and 180 Armour, Against a guy with 180 Shields amd 500 Armour.
If I win with 0 Shields and 170 Armour , 3 secs later I can be at 300 Shields and 180 Armour ( with a single complex repper) If he wins with 0 Shields and 170 Armour, 3 Secs later he can be at50 Shields 180 Armour, (with a single complex repper) That other guy is now a dead man walking, his armour plates are currently no purpose but to slow him down. Where as me with 300 Shields can get through that shields again and again and again.
Whine as much as you like, but you clearly do not understand the positives and negatives of shields, I suggest you try armour. If we get a respec I would seriously suggest going gallante, leave shield tanking to those that appericate it.
Tl:dr
If shields have the same EHP values as Armour they would be overpowered. Shields are HIT and RUN, treat them as such.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2169
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Posted - 2014.03.07 07:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:True Adamance wrote:Sinboto Simmons wrote:-Insert poor logic and or false info here-
We took a really hard hit this build....and essentially now cannot kill any armour tanked units. Our gun is not longer useful at long range where the RR is better, nor at mid or close where the CR and AR are better. We are also no longer the best 1v1 rifle, loosing out half the time on armoured targets......ScR..... in my eye, though I will need to test it, has been officially gimped by the whingers..... Small tweaks would have made the ScR balanced........ I almost wish we would stay with the current model of proficiency and skills and only tweak it slightly...... Whelp I hope we get a respect, I'm certainly pulling all of my points out of Amarr Dropsuits and weapons ands stock piling them for the HAV. News flash, its meant to be tough to kill a Armour tanker with a Shield based weapon. Take this, [hands over M2091 Assault Submachine Gun], with profciency this gets 135% damage bonus to armour, still relatively effective at longer ranges. Also have this [hands over M8 Packed Locus Grenade] this is also very useful, tey cooking it a little first, you have time to nowadays. Welcome to diversity, welcome to the real DUST 514. Face palm..... don't you think I know that? I am Amarrian, the most durable race out there...... however the ScR now is essentially halved in its armour based effectiveness, I do not want dust to become a game of uh oh back to the supply depot for me to take out 1 guy who is armour tanking...... its as if now everyone has armour resistance module on their suits......
Well if you don't want to feel gimped by going to more balanced environment you could take a break, when you come back although it'll feel different it will be easier to adjust.
The thing is are you happy the CR is no weak against shields? That my Mass Driver is practically pointless withojt a Shield Breaker? If you play with a varied squad of mercs you wont have to, you get your mate with a CR to deal with it, you know teamwork.
Even against a gallante with minimal shie2ldsmits gonna be more efficient to tag-team and that's the point. It puts and end to one gun being better than the rest.
Because that CR is severely **** against shields!
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2169
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Posted - 2014.03.07 11:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:True Adamance wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:True Adamance wrote:
We took a really hard hit this build....and essentially now cannot kill any armour tanked units. Our gun is not longer useful at long range where the RR is better, nor at mid or close where the CR and AR are better.
We are also no longer the best 1v1 rifle, loosing out half the time on armoured targets......ScR..... in my eye, though I will need to test it, has been officially gimped by the whingers.....
Small tweaks would have made the ScR balanced........
I almost wish we would stay with the current model of proficiency and skills and only tweak it slightly......
Whelp I hope we get a respect, I'm certainly pulling all of my points out of Amarr Dropsuits and weapons ands stock piling them for the HAV.
News flash, its meant to be tough to kill a Armour tanker with a Shield based weapon. Take this, [hands over M2091 Assault Submachine Gun], with profciency this gets 135% damage bonus to armour, still relatively effective at longer ranges. Also have this [hands over M8 Packed Locus Grenade] this is also very useful, tey cooking it a little first, you have time to nowadays. Welcome to diversity, welcome to the real DUST 514. Face palm..... don't you think I know that? I am Amarrian, the most durable race out there...... however the ScR now is essentially halved in its armour based effectiveness, I do not want dust to become a game of uh oh back to the supply depot for me to take out 1 guy who is armour tanking...... its as if now everyone has armour resistance module on their suits...... Well if you don't want to feel gimped by going to more balanced environment you could take a break, when you come back although it'll feel different it will be easier to adjust. The thing is are you happy the CR is no weak against shields? That my Mass Driver is practically pointless withojt a Shield Breaker? If you play with a varied squad of mercs you wont have to, you get your mate with a CR to deal with it, you know teamwork. Even against a gallante with minimal shie2ldsmits gonna be more efficient to tag-team and that's the point. It puts and end to one gun being better than the rest. Because that CR is severely **** against shields! See my corp tag.... does that answer your question.....or do you not know who PIE are? (Wow that sounds pretentious but its a serious question.)
It answers a question, not the ones I posed to you about CR and Mass Driver. I understand what PIE do, however now might be the time to get some matari slaves, if you wanna look at the crux of the matter the gallanteans will effectively destroy you, they are your counter, just be glad you are only against the Minmatar in FW.
But you are still avoiding the crux of the matter, why should the Scrambler (a shield based weapon) be profecient against armour yet the Combat Rifle (an armour based weapon) not be allowed to be profecient against shields?
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2171
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Posted - 2014.03.07 18:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
Savage Mangler wrote:May I humbly point out that all weapon types give as much as they get when shield/armor is concerned except projectile weapons which lose 5% to gain 10% respectively.
Change that to -20% Shields +20% Armour and everytjing will be balanced.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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