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Haerr
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
292
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Posted - 2014.03.04 21:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:If the precision numbers for scouts were changed, the Caldari Scout would become OP scan-wise. Here's how a full E-WAR advanced Cal Scout (3x complex precision enhancers in highs and 2x complex dampeners in lows, plus cloak) would stack up against full E-WAR proto scouts:
1) vs. Gallente - Would need 1 complex and 1 basic dampener + cloak to remain unscanned, and can't counter-scan.
2) vs. Minmatar - Would always be scanned regardless of fittings; can counter-scan but only if Caldari is uncloaked.
3) vs. Amarr - Would always be scanned regardless of fittings; can't counter-scan.
4) vs. Caldari - Would always be scanned and therefore always counter-scans.
So you get a suit that can scan every other suit in the game except the Gal Scout with a cloak and two dampener modules, and the only suit capable of detecting it consistently is another Caldari scout. Doesn't that sound OP to you?
If the medium suits scan precision and scan profile remains the same in 1.8 we'll have the problem that only 2/4 scouts will be able to make a fit which can pickup medium suits using 2 complex profile dampeners all while 4/4 logistics suits will be able to make fits which can pickup medium suits using 2 complex profile dampeners...
Maths and stuff:
Scanning table 1.7: LINK
Maths: LINK
[WIP] Fancy scanning table for 1.8 [WIP] :: LINK
This table uses the 1.8 preview stats for heavies and scouts, it currently uses the 1.7 values for medium suits. This table will be updated with the new suit stats as soon as I can after CCP shares them with us.
I think it is silly that the Amarr and Gallente Scouts have no way (barring active scanners) to detect medium suits that use 2 complex profile dampeners.
Apparently "Haerr" means "Hare"...
Shhh. Be vewy vewy quiet, I'm a hunted wabbit!
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Haerr
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
292
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 22:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Haerr wrote:
I think it is silly that the Amarr and Gallente Scouts have no way (barring active scanners) to detect medium suits that use 2 complex profile dampeners.
That's true, but I can't see dampeners being as widely used by mediums in 1.8 as they are in 1.7. Simply because two complex dampeners on a medium won't get you under Gallente scans (and therefore you risk wasting your slots if a Gallente logi with a scanner is in a match against you) and since scanners themselves won't be as effective, if you flank, chances are low that you'll actually get scanned anyway. Passive scanning will be much more effective than active - it already is in 1.7. So scouts skilling up passive scanning will still have a large advantage over non-scouts relying on active scanners, even if these two parties cannot detect one another.
Scanners have become almost a must for most squads. While they won't be as effective in 1.8 they're hardly going to disappear over night. I know that is not what you are saying but the only other option besides scanners, to relaying enemy positions, is to clutter comms with even more chatter. That alone ensures that scanners are going to be around after 1.8 drops.
The thing is that was just an example, an other is that a scout with 1 complex precision enhancer will not be able to pickup scouts using 0 profile dampeners.
A very minute change to Scouts scan precision will alleviate these problems. (-1~2 scan precision for Scouts.)
Apparently "Haerr" means "Hare"...
Shhh. Be vewy vewy quiet, I'm a hunted wabbit!
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Haerr
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
297
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 13:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:@ Haerr
Let's just increase the medium frame scan profile to 51dB - that'd solve the double dampener issue while letting scouts with two complex precision enhancers still scan them.
That would only solve this problem:
- A Scout using 2 Complex Precision Enhancer can't detect a Medium Suit using 2 Complex Profile Dampeners.
The following problems would still be left unsolved:
- A Caldari Scout with 3 Complex Precision Enhancers can't detect a Gallente Scout using 1 Complex Profile Dampener.
- A Caldari Scout with 1 Complex Precision Enhancer can't detect a Scout using 1 Complex Profile Dampener.
- A Scout with 3 Complex Precision Enhancers can't detect a Scout using 1 Complex Profile Dampener.
- A Scout with 1 Complex Precision Enhancer can't detect an other Scout which is not using any Profile Dampeners.
Apparently "Haerr" means "Hare"...
Shhh. Be vewy vewy quiet, I'm a hunted wabbit!
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Haerr
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
306
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Posted - 2014.03.05 18:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
With the upcoming changes to medium suits scan precision (mediums goes from 55->50 and logistics goes from 50->45, logistics scan distance has been increased as well 10->15) the scanning game has changed. (FYI logistics and scouts now have the same scan precision.)
Here are the suits can make a fit that can detect a medium suit with 2x complex profile dampeners:
- Amarr Assault: 3x complex precision enhancers.
- Caldari Assault: 3x complex precision enhancers.
- Gallente Assault: 3x complex precision enhancers.
- Minmatar Assault: 3x complex precision enhancers.
- Amarr Logistics: 3x complex precision enhancers.
- Caldari Logistics: 3x complex precision enhancers.
- Gallente Logistics: 3x complex precision enhancers.
- Minmatar Logistics: 3x complex precision enhancers.
- Minmatar Scout: 3x complex precision enhancers.
- Caldari Scout: 1x complex precision enhancers.
And here are the suits that can NOT make a fit that can detect a medium suit with 2x complex profile dampeners:
- Amarr Commando & Heavy & Sentinel: ---N/A---
- Caldari Commando & Heavy & Sentinel: ---N/A---
- Gallente Commando & Heavy & Sentinel: ---N/A---
- Minmatar Commando & Heavy & Sentinel: ---N/A---
- Amarr Scout: ---N/A---
- Gallente Scout: ---N/A---
Apparently "Haerr" means "Hare"...
Shhh. Be vewy vewy quiet, I'm a hunted wabbit!
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Haerr
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
352
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 18:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Driftward wrote:Just want to point out that scout precision has been changed to 40 dB as per dev blog for 1.8.
Should make things interesting. Thank you Devs.
Yeah, thank you Devs for fixing this.
Scanning Table for 1.8: LINK
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