Tanks as they stand right now (anti-infantry, operable by a single merc) can never, ever be balanced in a pure TDM game mode. They fill the exact same role as an assault suit: roll around the map, gunning people down one at a time with an oversized AR. In a game mode with objectives inaccessible to tanks, their near-invincibility and 900 DPS AR turret can maybe be considered to be balanced and exist in a real separate role. But when the only goal is to kill X clones, the current style of tanks is always going to either be massively OP or paper-thin UP. As it stands right now, they're just a big suit I put on over my little suit with 10x the HP, 2x the damage, and 90% resist to most weapons on the field.

As an example: I just got out of an ambush where I spent a solid minute or two playing cat and mouse against a Soma, running in circles around pillars, etc. The fact that he was in a tank made it impossible for me to kill him. He simply chased me around and around searching for the kill, just like an assault player, because that's all tanks are good for.

Change their role or get them the hell out of ambush.

I think the SP cost for tanks is too low, because anyone can get into a Soma with 0 SP and fit it with militia mods to slaughter enemy infantry, and still win and pull a large ISK payout even if they get destroyed once (which by that point the damage to the enemy team has already been done).

I know I'm going to get hate for this, but SP should be a huge factor for tanks, especially since they are force multipliers. It should take max skills to get current tank and module attributes, and for someone with 0 SP, they should be easily soloable by one militia AV.

I'm talking about skills for everything, from vehicle acceleration and top speed to vehicle shield and armor HP.

Classic Spkr post

Tanks couldn't possibly be the problem, nope, no way. Spkr knows best, as one of the leading voices of reason and logic when it comes to HAV balance in DUST. No greater supporter of statistical, factual evidence can be found. There is no sense arguing against one so thoroughly immersed in his desire for a balanced DUST.

I've tried that. I have a Prof IV IAFG alt that I play on a regular basis. A Soma can soak a full clip while pew-pewing my heavy suit down with ease. There should be no contest there- maxed out proto forge vs MLT tank should let me go toe to toe like an idiot and come out on top.

I don't know why tankers can't understand that when it takes more than one AV person to kill you, in a game mode that offers very little cover, when the enemy switches to AV, your infantry in effect multiplies.

Basically, whoever deploys the most tanks in Ambush first can only loose through extremely bad skill on their part because their force is exponentially larger than the enemies, despite having the same amount of players on both sides.

Solution?

Offer an infantry only Ambush option.

You want some f--king math? Fine. Math time.

IAFG damage: 1500 damage. Base charge time 3s, 3 * .75 = 2.25 seconds per shot.
The first shot receives the 10% reduction against shields, for 1350 damage. The next 3 receive the 10% bonus for 1650 * 3. In 4 shots, that gives us 6300 total over 9 seconds.

If it's a hardener fit with hardener up:
Soma: 1200 shields, 4000 armor, 100hp/s heavy repper. Over 9 seconds, 900 EHP gained from the repper, for a total of 6100 EHP, with 4900 of it being armor. 4900 * 1.4 + 1200 = 8060 EHP. Yes, it can tank a full clip.

For the sake of argument, let's use a non-hardener fit.

If it's double repper:
Soma: 1200 shields, 4000 armor, 200hp/s heavy reppers Over 9 seconds, 1800 EHP gained from the repper, for a total of 7000 EHP. Yes, it can soak a full clip.

If it's repper/plate:
Soma: 1200 shields, ~5000 armor, 100hp/s heavy repper. Over 9 seconds, 900 EHP gained from the repper, for a total of 7100 EHP. Yes, it can soak a full clip.

Now let's assume the blaster tank isn't a complete idiot and is shooting the forge gunner. Assuming they have crap for aim, let's ballpark their DPS at 500. That's less than 4 seconds, or less than 2 FG shots, for a MLT tank to gun down a brick-tanked prototype heavy.

Do you honestly not see the numerical imbalance here, between a militia tank and a prototype forge gunner? Change this situation to a Maddy running MLT modules (that's a SP investment of ~300k, or less than a week of SP, and less than a fresh academy character starts with) and the imbalance gets only bigger.

It doesn't matter what Mr. Fancy God can do. You've spent plenty of time talking about how all the scrub newbie tankers are bad. The average scrub with AV, especially when it's a proto forge gun, should be able to solo the average scrub in a MLT tank. That's called balance. As a super pro tanker, you shouldn't be worried about this.

I didn't include damage mods because the balance needs to also involve SP investment and we're already talking about PRO vs MLT. It shouldn't matter what fit I'm using, damage mod shouldn't be necessary, there should be no contest there.

Why can't you be like Snugglez?

He is cool and flys like if Jesus flew dropships.

By your logic, TANKS are forcing CCP to do another vehicle/AV balance at this very moment.