|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Awry Barux
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
1364
   |
Posted - 2014.03.04 18:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
Tanks as they stand right now (anti-infantry, operable by a single merc) can never, ever be balanced in a pure TDM game mode. They fill the exact same role as an assault suit: roll around the map, gunning people down one at a time with an oversized AR. In a game mode with objectives inaccessible to tanks, their near-invincibility and 900 DPS AR turret can maybe be considered to be balanced and exist in a real separate role. But when the only goal is to kill X clones, the current style of tanks is always going to either be massively OP or paper-thin UP. As it stands right now, they're just a big suit I put on over my little suit with 10x the HP, 2x the damage, and 90% resist to most weapons on the field.
As an example: I just got out of an ambush where I spent a solid minute or two playing cat and mouse against a Soma, running in circles around pillars, etc. The fact that he was in a tank made it impossible for me to kill him. He simply chased me around and around searching for the kill, just like an assault player, because that's all tanks are good for.
Change their role or get them the hell out of ambush. |
Awry Barux
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
1366
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 18:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
deepfried salad gilliam wrote:Awry Barux wrote:Tanks as they stand right now (anti-infantry, operable by a single merc) can never, ever be balanced in a pure TDM game mode. They fill the exact same role as an assault suit: roll around the map, gunning people down one at a time with an oversized AR. In a game mode with objectives inaccessible to tanks, their near-invincibility and 900 DPS AR turret can maybe be considered to be balanced and exist in a real separate role. But when the only goal is to kill X clones, the current style of tanks is always going to either be massively OP or paper-thin UP. As it stands right now, they're just a big suit I put on over my little suit with 10x the HP, 2x the damage, and 90% resist to most weapons on the field.
As an example: I just got out of an ambush where I spent a solid minute or two playing cat and mouse against a Soma, running in circles around pillars, etc. The fact that he was in a tank made it impossible for me to kill him. He simply chased me around and around searching for the kill, just like an assault player, because that's all tanks are good for.
Change their role or get them the hell out of ambush. so their anty infantry(vehicle) role beat you (the infantry) who most likely wasn't av. seems balanced. now if you said i had my av suit of equal or greater tier and still lost then you might almost have a valid point depending on the scenario(who saw who first, did he out skill you, was he in close proximty to cover ,etc)
I've tried that. I have a Prof IV IAFG alt that I play on a regular basis. A Soma can soak a full clip while pew-pewing my heavy suit down with ease. |
Awry Barux
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
1367
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 19:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Awry Barux wrote:deepfried salad gilliam wrote:Awry Barux wrote:Tanks as they stand right now (anti-infantry, operable by a single merc) can never, ever be balanced in a pure TDM game mode. They fill the exact same role as an assault suit: roll around the map, gunning people down one at a time with an oversized AR. In a game mode with objectives inaccessible to tanks, their near-invincibility and 900 DPS AR turret can maybe be considered to be balanced and exist in a real separate role. But when the only goal is to kill X clones, the current style of tanks is always going to either be massively OP or paper-thin UP. As it stands right now, they're just a big suit I put on over my little suit with 10x the HP, 2x the damage, and 90% resist to most weapons on the field.
As an example: I just got out of an ambush where I spent a solid minute or two playing cat and mouse against a Soma, running in circles around pillars, etc. The fact that he was in a tank made it impossible for me to kill him. He simply chased me around and around searching for the kill, just like an assault player, because that's all tanks are good for.
Change their role or get them the hell out of ambush. so their anty infantry(vehicle) role beat you (the infantry) who most likely wasn't av. seems balanced. now if you said i had my av suit of equal or greater tier and still lost then you might almost have a valid point depending on the scenario(who saw who first, did he out skill you, was he in close proximty to cover ,etc) I've tried that. I have a Prof IV IAFG alt that I play on a regular basis. A Soma can soak a full clip while pew-pewing my heavy suit down with ease. There should be no contest there- maxed out proto forge vs MLT tank should let me go toe to toe like an idiot and come out on top. LOL No, you're lying. Forge gets a damage bonus against armor.
You want some f--king math? Fine. Math time.
IAFG damage: 1500 damage. Base charge time 3s, 3 * .75 = 2.25 seconds per shot.
The first shot receives the 10% reduction against shields, for 1350 damage. The next 3 receive the 10% bonus for 1650 * 3. In 4 shots, that gives us 6300 total over 9 seconds.
If it's a hardener fit with hardener up:
Soma: 1200 shields, 4000 armor, 100hp/s heavy repper. Over 9 seconds, 900 EHP gained from the repper, for a total of 6100 EHP, with 4900 of it being armor. 4900 * 1.4 + 1200 = 8060 EHP. Yes, it can tank a full clip.
For the sake of argument, let's use a non-hardener fit.
If it's double repper:
Soma: 1200 shields, 4000 armor, 200hp/s heavy reppers Over 9 seconds, 1800 EHP gained from the repper, for a total of 7000 EHP. Yes, it can soak a full clip.
If it's repper/plate:
Soma: 1200 shields, ~5000 armor, 100hp/s heavy repper. Over 9 seconds, 900 EHP gained from the repper, for a total of 7100 EHP. Yes, it can soak a full clip.
Now let's assume the blaster tank isn't a complete idiot and is shooting the forge gunner. Assuming they have crap for aim, let's ballpark their DPS at 500. That's less than 4 seconds, or less than 2 FG shots, for a MLT tank to gun down a brick-tanked prototype heavy.
Do you honestly not see the numerical imbalance here, between a militia tank and a prototype forge gunner? Change this situation to a Maddy running MLT modules (that's a SP investment of ~300k, or less than a week of SP, and less than a fresh academy character starts with) and the imbalance gets only bigger. |
Awry Barux
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
1367
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 19:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:
So you don't use damage mods when using a forge gun?
And you're basically complaining that you can't solo a tank with a forge gun. But, I can.
So, where does the problem lie?
It doesn't matter what Mr. Fancy God can do. You've spent plenty of time talking about how all the scrub newbie tankers are bad. The average scrub with AV, especially when it's a proto forge gun, should be able to solo the average scrub in a MLT tank. As a super pro tanker, you shouldn't be worried about this.
I didn't include damage mods because the balance needs to also involve SP investment and we're already talking about PRO vs MLT. It shouldn't matter what fit I'm using, damage mod shouldn't be necessary, there should be no contest there. |
Awry Barux
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
1367
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 19:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Awry Barux wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
So you don't use damage mods when using a forge gun?
And you're basically complaining that you can't solo a tank with a forge gun. But, I can.
So, where does the problem lie?
It doesn't matter what Mr. Fancy God can do. You've spent plenty of time talking about how all the scrub newbie tankers are bad. The average scrub with AV, especially when it's a proto forge gun, should be able to solo the average scrub in a MLT tank. That's called balance. As a super pro tanker, you shouldn't be worried about this. I didn't include damage mods because the balance needs to also involve SP investment and we're already talking about PRO vs MLT. It shouldn't matter what fit I'm using, damage mod shouldn't be necessary, there should be no contest there. But it's basically you saying you're inept with a forge gun, that you can't destroy a MLT tank with a PRO forge. You're just bad.
Did you even read what I said? I never claimed to be good, but you can't really be telling me that every MLT tanker out there is so incredibly good that they're surviving proto AV through raw skill. Bad AVers should beat bad tanks with equal gear. Bad AVers with proto gear should absolutely crush bad tankers with MLT gear. That's the point of specialized AV weaponry and the tier system. Good tanks should beat bad AV, which as you so often tell us, they always have.
Spkr4theDead wrote:And not only that, CCP already did their AV / vehicle balance pass, which infantry basically forced them to do. Why are you not happy with the work you forced CCP to do?
Infantry forced the balance pass? Are you f--king kidding me? Tankers complained, and rightly, that they were getting instapopped by super-powerful swarms from 200m away. CCP tried to fix it with 1.7 and they failed to do it right, which should be no surprise given their track record. |
|
|
| |
|