DUST Search - Should we go back to suits having different base turn speeds?

LEHON Xeon wrote:

J4yne C0bb wrote:

THUNDERGROOVE wrote:

As a heavy from the times when base turn speed was reduced on them, I say no. It was completely ridiculous. You couldn't even track people in CQ with an HMG.

QFFT. Reducing turn speed in CQC was too severe of a restriction; it made the role unplayable. I'd get wtfpwned all the time simply because I couldn't track a target fast enough. And non-heavy mercs may not know this, but even after CCP removed the turn speed restriction, heavies still can't ADS as fast as an assault or scout.

In another similar thread this week, I think it was Fox Gaden that had a better suggestion: eliminate the 'sloth' effect -- when you are getting hit by bullets, you move slower. This would allow mercs a chance to escape out of my range into cover.

In 1.6, people got too used to soloing heavies, and now that things are working as intended -- that if you meet me in CQC, your ass is mine -- they want a nerf back to the crappy old days. How about a change in tactics, like you soften me up with grenades before trying to engage me solo at my full health, or try and bait me with REs? I seem to be a freakin' magnet for these damn things these days.

I liked Fox's idea of getting rid of that stupid "sloth" effect also. I absolutely hate that thing as I love to jump and rush around in a gunfight.

As for what you said about heavies, yeah in CQC, with the HMG you should be able to hold people off with ease (that's what it is for), unless a scout or someone sneaks in and gets you with a bunch of head shots or explosives. My issue is the guys using the same super bricked HP (1000+ in just armor)levels with long range light weapons. Unless you engage them with multiple people or a vehicle, there's no way to kill people like that camping spawn points or installations.

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knight of 6 SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1549	Posted - 2014.03.03 22:58:00 - [31] - Quote yes, I support dis. GÇ£Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I am dampened.GÇ¥ Ko6 scout,
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD 539	Posted - 2014.03.03 23:05:00 - [32] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Next patch, no suit and weapon combo will be able to kill a heavy before it turns around, locks on with aim assist, and kills you Then don't engage heavies in their optimal range. Use grenades to weaken them. Have friends to help teamfire on the guy. Remote. Shotguns. Feel free to change up your play style if it helps your team. Don't box yourself in to the one suit one play style way of Dust. Also, Quote: Hurr durr he's the only one with AA Unless you're trying to run at him with a sniper rifle.. Director of ZionTCD Amarr Logi \| Amarr Sentinel \| Amarr Scout (SoonGäó) TDBS
LEHON Xeon Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 288	Posted - 2014.03.03 23:08:00 - [33] - Quote 100% support. Fatsuit users are slowly starting to become like a lot of tankers it seems. Now you all think you should have well over double (and in some cases almost triple) the HP levels of standard suits, only now you'll also get resistances to REs, grenades, and resistance to certain weapon types to go along with those immense HP reserves. And before anyone starts something, I ran fatsuits with mostly forge guns and sometimes a HMG a long time ago on an alt, so I know about them. Right now, as this last event has clearly shown, asides from the HMG range, you guys have almost no weakness at the moment. I don't think that turn speed should be completely whacked down on heavies, but you should not be turning completely around as fast as an Assault or Scout suit to kill them in a second and a half with an HMG. That's the whole point of scout suits, stealth and being able to OUTMANEUVER people. There's no reason, that when engaging from a flank that you should be able to turn around and kill assault and scout suits with an HMG or other light weapon almost instantly even though I caught you by surprise and opened up with a large amount of bullets first. It's a trap! In this patch we can't repel firepower of that magnitude! - Admiral Ackbar would say in ambush w Nyain San
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 2299	Posted - 2014.03.03 23:12:00 - [34] - Quote Definitely not, rotation speed directly affects aim sensitivity... And unless everyone runs around at 100% it's largely meaningless anyways. However what it did do is make me constantly tweak my aim sensitivity to compensate for the changes in turn speed when swapping to different suits, which was an unnecessary amount of effort to achieve the same results as I have today. From an RPG standpoint, yes we probably should. From an FPS standpoint, HAAAAAAAIL NO.
21yrOld Knight Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 501	Posted - 2014.03.03 23:14:00 - [35] - Quote yep Ralph Ellison was Right. Yes Suh.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 1042	Posted - 2014.03.03 23:14:00 - [36] - Quote Billi Gene wrote: currently you should probably come from the flank if you want to get in close to a heavy... if you nerf the turning speed: we will be back at the days of old when just running at them and skipping side to side was enough to dodge 95% of anything they could throw at you. how about asking for something in between? Like keeping a 120 degree arc free from turn speed restrictions. When a suit turns further than 60 degrees without any pause, they incur a turn speed penalty.... if a suit pauses for any fraction of a second they lose the penalty. Said penalty will apply to all suits to varying degree's... yes even scout suits :P you want reality?...You Want Reality??.... YOU CAN'T HANDLE REALITY!!! :P aka.. its a freakin GAME... sure it should reference reality to some predetermined degree, in so much as to feel familiar to the player.... but since when do we demand that our recreational fantasies should have to mirror reality in every manner concievable? oh hai i just hit you with my foam batton of +5 office smear campaign tactics.... i.e. what i just said about heavies having a lower acceleration turn (aiming wise) Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 242	Posted - 2014.03.03 23:19:00 - [37] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: As a heavy from the times when base turn speed was reduced on them, I say no. It was completely ridiculous. You couldn't even track people in CQ with an HMG. QFFT. Reducing turn speed in CQC was too severe of a restriction; it made the role unplayable. I'd get wtfpwned all the time simply because I couldn't track a target fast enough. And non-heavy mercs may not know this, but even after CCP removed the turn speed restriction, heavies still can't ADS as fast as an assault or scout. In another similar thread this week, I think it was Fox Gaden that had a better suggestion: eliminate the 'sloth' effect -- when you are getting hit by bullets, you move slower. This would allow mercs a chance to escape out of my range into cover. In 1.6, people got too used to soloing heavies, and now that things are working as intended -- that if you meet me in CQC, your ass is mine -- they want a nerf back to the crappy old days. How about a change in tactics, like you soften me up with grenades before trying to engage me solo at my full health, or try and bait me with REs? I seem to be a freakin' magnet for these damn things these days. Min Logi \| aka Punch R0ckgroin, Fatsuit
LEHON Xeon Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 289	Posted - 2014.03.03 23:26:00 - [38] - Quote J4yne C0bb wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: As a heavy from the times when base turn speed was reduced on them, I say no. It was completely ridiculous. You couldn't even track people in CQ with an HMG. QFFT. Reducing turn speed in CQC was too severe of a restriction; it made the role unplayable. I'd get wtfpwned all the time simply because I couldn't track a target fast enough. And non-heavy mercs may not know this, but even after CCP removed the turn speed restriction, heavies still can't ADS as fast as an assault or scout. In another similar thread this week, I think it was Fox Gaden that had a better suggestion: eliminate the 'sloth' effect -- when you are getting hit by bullets, you move slower. This would allow mercs a chance to escape out of my range into cover. In 1.6, people got too used to soloing heavies, and now that things are working as intended -- that if you meet me in CQC, your ass is mine -- they want a nerf back to the crappy old days. How about a change in tactics, like you soften me up with grenades before trying to engage me solo at my full health, or try and bait me with REs? I seem to be a freakin' magnet for these damn things these days. I liked Fox's idea of getting rid of that stupid "sloth" effect also. I absolutely hate that thing as I love to jump and rush around in a gunfight. As for what you said about heavies, yeah in CQC, with the HMG you should be able to hold people off with ease (that's what it is for), unless a scout or someone sneaks in and gets you with a bunch of head shots or explosives. My issue is the guys using the same super bricked HP (1000+ in just armor)levels with long range light weapons. Unless you engage them with multiple people or a vehicle, there's no way to kill people like that camping spawn points or installations. It's a trap! In this patch we can't repel firepower of that magnitude! - Admiral Ackbar would say in ambush w Nyain San
Marston VC SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1578	Posted - 2014.03.03 23:31:00 - [39] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Definitely not, rotation speed directly affects aim sensitivity... And unless everyone runs around at 100% it's largely meaningless anyways. However what it did do is make me constantly tweak my aim sensitivity to compensate for the changes in turn speed when swapping to different suits, which was an unnecessary amount of effort to achieve the same results as I have today. From an RPG standpoint, yes we probably should. From an FPS standpoint, HAAAAAAAIL NO. it would be tedious, but CCP could just add 3 different sensitivity settings? Or you just keep it at 100% the entire time...... Its not like you don't experience the differing rotation speeds already. Depending on what your holding and how many plates you have on, your rotation speed varies. Marston VC, STB Director
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2120	Posted - 2014.03.03 23:37:00 - [40] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Always wondered why it was changed. Also, plates should nerf turn speed. Plates do already nerf turn speed by their movement penalty.

Oxskull Duncarino 0uter.Heaven 455	Posted - 2014.03.03 23:39:00 - [41] - Quote Vegetation Monster wrote: Duran Lex wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Duran Lex wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: 100% on board with this. If sprint speed, endurance, and jump height are different with each suit then the turn speed definitely should be. They used to be different. People cried that it should all be the same. So they made it the same. Now people want it different again? /sigh at this community. Those were the days that HMG heavies were UP. Now, they will be OP and for them to better fill their niche, they need lower turn speed So this is just a preemptive nerf the Heavy thread in disguise? Btw, you should probably be aware of something if you feel this way because of HMG Heavy suits. Armor plates also reduce the turn speed. The HMG has a slower turning speed then any other Light Weapon. They are already turning slower then you. You are simply complaining over being killed. Usain bolt turns 1 sec faster than the obese man with super heavy gun so i guess its balanced right? Lol, obese! Much as the term fatso is used in jest both by non heavies as well as heavies, heavies in Dust are the total opposite of obese. They are clones that have been designed to have a large skeletal frame and massive muscular structure so as to be able to carry the extremely heavy weapons, armor plates, shield generators, and ammo that they need to for their role, while still being able to move at a decent rate. On top of that they have a powered exoskeleton to assist with all that. And just because they are extremely bulked doesn't make them very slow. They'll be slower than a scout but more obvious in pace than turn speed. Everyone who didn't run heavy or didn't have the skill/support to run it well, is peeved by being swamped by heavies in this event and not being able to keep up in the heavy's area of expertise. I don't have an issue with them at the moment, but that might have something to do with the fact that I'm a long time heavy myself All the QQing is great entertainment, the best of which was someone giving out that their solo medium suit wasn't able to successfully take on a heavy/logi combo, Priceless entertainment. Well, the good thing is that these events are specific data collections by the CCP, so if there were issues then changes might be made to future plans Ye all think that stats are fixed for the suits for 1.8 even though ye have been told in many threads by CCP devs that they aren't definite. How about leaving the tinfoil hats aside for a while and wait for patch notes
Eric Del Carlo 0uter.Heaven 52	Posted - 2014.03.03 23:42:00 - [42] - Quote Yes please, I've been noticing more and more that heavies that are super tanked take more than 4 shotgun shots to hit. Even if I hit them in rapid succession from behind, they still whip around quickly enough to melt me in under a second before I could land the final blow. I could only see this kind of scenario getting far worse now that heavies will have the advantage of damage resistance Meh...
Onesimus Tarsus TRUE TEA BAGGERS EoN. 1303	Posted - 2014.03.03 23:43:00 - [43] - Quote Let's just take the pressure off of CCP and just reduce the game to everyone getting a heavy suit that has logi slots, rail rifles and scout speeds riding around in LAV safety-pods and ultra-cheap HAVs. Wait, they already did that. Ne'ermind. Start an alt, use no SP, grab a starter fit and join me in "no SP warriors" chat!
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2712	Posted - 2014.03.03 23:59:00 - [44] - Quote Vegetation Monster wrote: Duran Lex wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Always wondered why it was changed. Also, plates should nerf turn speed. Plates do reduce turn speed. To the OP : No. There's no reason for it. Hence why It was changed. Exactly, that's why a guy carrying a 200 KG FG that is obese can spin just as fast as Usain bolt with his 10KG AR? Turn speed is currently based on which weapon you are using. SMG is faster than an AR, which is faster than a Shotgun, which is faster than a Forge Gun. A guy carrying a 200 KG FG CANGÇÖT spin as fast as someone with an AR. The Heavy turn speed cap only effected light weapons and sidearms because Heavy weapons turn slower anyway. I therefore support the OPGÇÖs suggestion of bringing it back, as it would provide a down side to using Light Weapons on a Sentinel suit. However, I would like to keep a faster turn speed with sidearms. Otherwise Heavies will be defenseless against good Scouts. There is a reason Heavies often switch to sidearms when fighting Scouts in CQC. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
mollerz 2557	Posted - 2014.03.04 00:02:00 - [45] - Quote YES. It makes no sense that a heavy or med suit can turn as fast as a light suit.... same for strafing. It would be nice to have moar physics. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Knight Solitaire Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 528	Posted - 2014.03.04 00:05:00 - [46] - Quote Funkmaster Whale suggested this, that Heavies have no resistance on their back. So if you do manage to sneak up on a Heavy (A Heavie's weakness) you can do the full damage of your gun, no matter what level he has in Sentinel. I think this is a better idea than going back to what we had before, although it was hilarious to literally run circles around a Heavy, it was a bit stupid. Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance ISK Milkshakes for all! (Except the pubbers)
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 2300	Posted - 2014.03.04 00:07:00 - [47] - Quote Marston VC wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Definitely not, rotation speed directly affects aim sensitivity... And unless everyone runs around at 100% it's largely meaningless anyways. However what it did do is make me constantly tweak my aim sensitivity to compensate for the changes in turn speed when swapping to different suits, which was an unnecessary amount of effort to achieve the same results as I have today. From an RPG standpoint, yes we probably should. From an FPS standpoint, HAAAAAAAIL NO. it would be tedious, but CCP could just add 3 different sensitivity settings? Or you just keep it at 100% the entire time...... Its not like you don't experience the differing rotation speeds already. Depending on what your holding and how many plates you have on, your rotation speed varies. That is the thing though... 100% is too fast for me, im too nub to use 100%. Its more like 40-50 for me. So now its 35 on scout suit, 40 on a medium suit, and 65 on heavy. Just so I can turn exactly the same speed as I do now? Meh... I mean if it was purely based on rotation cap and it didn't mess with aim sensitivity that would be one thing. But I don't think they have the tech to do that, and I don't think if its worth dedicating resources so that a few players are rotation speed capped.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7132	Posted - 2014.03.04 00:34:00 - [48] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Duran Lex wrote: Vegetation Monster wrote: Duran Lex wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Always wondered why it was changed. Also, plates should nerf turn speed. Plates do reduce turn speed. To the OP : No. There's no reason for it. Hence why It was changed. Exactly, that's why a guy carrying a 200 KG FG that is obese can spin just as fast as Usain bolt with his 10KG AR? This is the future. Why wouldn't a power suit give you the power to turn efficiently? This is the future. Why should physics stop existing? This is a game. Why are you acting like it's a simulator? Mail me in game if interested in learning about the Amarr Empire and serving them in Faction Warfare. Amarr Victor!
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 243	Posted - 2014.03.04 00:34:00 - [49] - Quote LEHON Xeon wrote: J4yne C0bb wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: As a heavy from the times when base turn speed was reduced on them, I say no. It was completely ridiculous. You couldn't even track people in CQ with an HMG. QFFT. Reducing turn speed in CQC was too severe of a restriction; it made the role unplayable. I'd get wtfpwned all the time simply because I couldn't track a target fast enough. And non-heavy mercs may not know this, but even after CCP removed the turn speed restriction, heavies still can't ADS as fast as an assault or scout. In another similar thread this week, I think it was Fox Gaden that had a better suggestion: eliminate the 'sloth' effect -- when you are getting hit by bullets, you move slower. This would allow mercs a chance to escape out of my range into cover. In 1.6, people got too used to soloing heavies, and now that things are working as intended -- that if you meet me in CQC, your ass is mine -- they want a nerf back to the crappy old days. How about a change in tactics, like you soften me up with grenades before trying to engage me solo at my full health, or try and bait me with REs? I seem to be a freakin' magnet for these damn things these days. I liked Fox's idea of getting rid of that stupid "sloth" effect also. I absolutely hate that thing as I love to jump and rush around in a gunfight. As for what you said about heavies, yeah in CQC, with the HMG you should be able to hold people off with ease (that's what it is for), unless a scout or someone sneaks in and gets you with a bunch of head shots or explosives. My issue is the guys using the same super bricked HP (1000+ in just armor)levels with long range light weapons. Unless you engage them with multiple people or a vehicle, there's no way to kill people like that camping spawn points or installations. I appreciate your point of view, but you know, I already get pwned by good scouts all the time in this build -- 2 or 3 shotgun blasts to the head, a good nova knife strike, or even via combat rifle at the edge of my range, and I'm terminated. The problem was that prior to 1.6, it was a constant occurrence; in 1.7, it's still happens, but it's usually because I was outplayed. If I go down now, it's due to the scout's skill, not due to an artificial cap on the heavy class. I think that's the way it should be. I really think this qq is due to unwillingness to change tactics. You know there are still mercs out there trying to solo me (as my heavy alt Punch) in a hallway or an enclosed room after all this time, that haven't figured out that they should be turning tail? And then they want to complain about how I put them down in my element? I tell you what -- when I'm playing J4yne, and I hear the sound of HMG, I run the other freakin' directtion, and find the nearest heavy I can rep, not go looking for that fatboy that can melt me in two seconds. This is a lot of why I think this argument has no merit -- it's an unwillingness to change tactics by some of the playerbase. On top of all this, scouts are now going to be the bane of a heavy's existence when cloaking becomes a big thing: a heavy's turn speed may be the only thing protecting them from guaranteed termination. I think we should see what effect cloaking has on heavies first, before calling for a cap on turn speed. As for light weapon heavies... ugh. Yeah. At least we can agree on that. But I think that's a separate discussion. Min Logi \| aka Punch R0ckgroin, Fatsuit
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 1882	Posted - 2014.03.04 00:42:00 - [50] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Vegetation Monster wrote: Duran Lex wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Always wondered why it was changed. Also, plates should nerf turn speed. Plates do reduce turn speed. To the OP : No. There's no reason for it. Hence why It was changed. Exactly, that's why a guy carrying a 200 KG FG that is obese can spin just as fast as Usain bolt with his 10KG AR? Because a Heavy would be useless in CQC then. It would make a HMG heavy (The CQC Heavy) useless. Again. Think about it. Nothing is useless with 900 DPS And if you cant hit a thing? Because you Wanted to be Something your Not.

Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1432	Posted - 2014.03.04 00:51:00 - [51] - Quote Duran Lex wrote: Vegetation Monster wrote: Duran Lex wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Always wondered why it was changed. Also, plates should nerf turn speed. Plates do reduce turn speed. To the OP : No. There's no reason for it. Hence why It was changed. Exactly, that's why a guy carrying a 200 KG FG that is obese can spin just as fast as Usain bolt with his 10KG AR? This is the future. Why wouldn't a power suit give you the power to turn efficiently? And it is in a galaxy far far away where things have had to develop from a new paradigm and new resources. It is only the future in time, not development. It is a parallel development. Like Star Wars has lightspeeding ships but no cell phones, lasers but no gunpowder based bullets and apparently no indoor plumbing either. Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 1878	Posted - 2014.03.04 00:52:00 - [52] - Quote Clearly someone doesn't play heavy. My ak.0 has four plates on it (for when I'm being chased by a logi :p) and I move slower than a glacier. With my HMG I can sometimes have issues tracking sprinting scouts at close range. My turning speed is markedly slower than on any other of my suits. Forge on for great justice! Defend the meek! Destroy the weak! Q-sync breaches into the rectum of everyone else!
stlcarlos989 SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1210	Posted - 2014.03.04 03:07:00 - [53] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Clearly someone doesn't play heavy. My ak.0 has four plates on it (for when I'm being chased by a logi :p) and I move slower than a glacier. With my HMG I can sometimes have issues tracking sprinting scouts at close range. My turning speed is markedly slower than on any other of my suits. Whats your sensitivity? STB Director, #1 in Warpoints E3 Closed Beta Build, Water Pipe Aficionado, Cannabis Sativa Connoisseur
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 1060	Posted - 2014.03.04 03:31:00 - [54] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Clearly someone doesn't play heavy. My ak.0 has four plates on it (for when I'm being chased by a logi :p) and I move slower than a glacier. With my HMG I can sometimes have issues tracking sprinting scouts at close range. My turning speed is markedly slower than on any other of my suits. you should have issues tracking sprinting scouts at close range-thats balanced Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 1060	Posted - 2014.03.04 03:32:00 - [55] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Nothing is useless with 900 DPS And if you cant hit a thing? Then you suck-The aim assist on the HMG is ludicrous. Try a shotgun or PLC and come back Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Beck Weathers Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 617	Posted - 2014.03.04 03:37:00 - [56] - Quote I miss being able to run cirles around Heavys in my scout suit. These forums must be located in the Californin country side, there is whine as far as the eye can see.
Tectonic Fusion 1171	Posted - 2014.03.04 03:39:00 - [57] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Next patch, no suit and weapon combo will be able to kill a heavy before it turns around, locks on with aim assist, and kills you Then don't engage heavies in their optimal range. Use grenades to weaken them. Have friends to help teamfire on the guy. Remote. Shotguns. Feel free to change up your play style if it helps your team. Don't box yourself in to the one suit one play style way of Dust. What if theres 5 camping heavys? Solo Player Squad status: Locked


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