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STD/ADV/PRO Plates have a 4%/6%/10% strafe penalty...

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Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2089	Posted - 2014.02.26 17:54:00 - [1] - Quote I think...also... There are a few things in combing through the SDE that are a little interesting... 1) Not all speed penalties are created equal. The regular armor plates get movement speed penalty, but also 'speed scale' penalties to jump, turning, and strafing. However reactive plates only have the base movement speed penalty. Is this intented? 2) My concern with regular plates also is that, depending on how the 'movement speed scale' is applied, it could be doubly affecting movementTun.strafespeed. My assumption is that your running strafe speed is a function (90%) of your movement speed, if you get a 5% penalty to movement speed and 5% penalty to your running strafe speed scale, that actually means that your strafe speed will end up being closer to 80% of your initial default suit base speed. So that would mean that if you are stacking 3 complex plates, you'd actually get around a 33% difference between initial ground speed and modified strafe speed. IOW strafe speed has a double penalty. The same could apply to jumping/sprint jumping if it is also a function of movement speed. Tl;Dr - If this is the case, I don't think people who complain about armor being so strong understand how much better shield users are in strafing fights. As an amarr armor tanker I'm always surprised at how fast some strafers I come upon are (KBM crutch users aside).
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2091	Posted - 2014.02.26 18:24:00 - [2] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: I think it should be 5/5/5. Complex plates are never used lawl You are saying increase the speed penalty to all of them so that it incentivizes using the heavier plates? Would you then make the case that all shields need the same penalty then too?
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2095	Posted - 2014.02.26 18:56:00 - [3] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Really? That's very interesting. Are you sure? This warrants further investigation and testing. You'll have to dig really, really deep to find the last time Beren was wrong. Mostly because his thing is data digging. But testing is always a good thing. MOAR SCIENCE Yeah I haven't tested this in the field. If someone wanted to that'd be cool. Sit at a supply depot, stare at it, turn 90 degrees, and strafe away from it at a known distance. Figure out your ground speed and compare it to what you think it should be.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2096	Posted - 2014.02.26 19:54:00 - [4] - Quote I'll check this out tonight if I get time. I also want to figure out sprint strafing, because according to the db it's a thing.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2097	Posted - 2014.02.26 20:02:00 - [5] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: GTFO with this whole "KB/M crutch" s**t. KB/M is in a horrible state right now. There is 0 benefit over DS3 other than turning speed. Its obvious you guys have never used a KB/M in this game because it is terrible in many many ways. Sluggish aiming, Framerate directly affects how well you can aim, module wheel is difficult to use, selecting spawn location is sometimes 100% impossible etc... I don't really care for this thread to go off on this topic. I welcome your comments on whether you think strafe speed should be doubly penalized by armor plates.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2097	Posted - 2014.02.26 20:08:00 - [6] - Quote Marc Rime wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Marc Rime wrote: (...) Maybe they should just remove the penalties on both shield and armor, might make it easier to keep the two balanced. Meh, removing the penalty for extenders would be nothing compared to removing the penalty for plates. Extenders didn't even have a drawback pre 1.7 Plates need a slightly higher speed penalty so they don't become the dmg mods of the low slot. Didn't mean they should remove the penalties without adjusting the HP values, but with the penalties gone there's less variables when balancing. I don't know if you guys caught my other point in the OP but plates don't just have a % movement penalty it's actually a... % penalty to base speed - which negatively impacts sprints as well additional % penalty to base strafe speed - which means a lot of armor suits can't outstrafe AA % penalty to 'jump speed' - which means a lot of suits with armor mods can't jump over railings % penalty to turning speed - which means if you catch a non KBM armor dropsuit, they will turn around 5%-25% slower.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2102	Posted - 2014.02.27 05:06:00 - [7] - Quote I did one test tonight, and I actually wasn't convinced one way or another. It actually may not have doubled the strafe penalty.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2102	Posted - 2014.02.27 05:16:00 - [8] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Whelp, shield tankers can now STFU I know, right? If people don't even use anything beyond ADV plates that isn't really all that much more HP especially when it regens crap slow compared to shield.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2112	Posted - 2014.02.28 12:10:00 - [9] - Quote I am now 95% sure that plates are doubly penalized. I did another couple of tests last night, and with 2 complex plates my base strafe speed seemed to only be about 76% of my base ground speed on my amarr logistics suit. Dropsuit (unfitted) ground speed: 4.5 m/s Fitted ground speed: 4.11 m/s Fitted strafe speed: ~3.4 m/s
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2116	Posted - 2014.02.28 18:29:00 - [10] - Quote For anyone reading during lunch, I updated this today. Looks like it does double-stack the penalty.

Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2120	Posted - 2014.03.04 00:16:00 - [11] - Quote Still curious if this is a bug
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2123	Posted - 2014.03.04 01:05:00 - [12] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: my amarr logi suit with 2x std plates strafes as fast as my min scout with 2x kin catsGÇª. Kincats don't modify strafe speed.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2242	Posted - 2014.03.19 13:15:00 - [13] - Quote This is still not answered.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2243	Posted - 2014.03.19 13:47:00 - [14] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: Source? And lol at people wanting armor to be heavier. Move kin cats to highslots and make them effect movement speed and we'll talk. Did you not read the OP dude. I said I did empirical testing in the game AND was consulting the SDE. You do your own tests if you want. SDE says .95x for ground.runspeed.strafescale or something and then .95x ground speed. And then since running strafe speed is a function of ground speed (.9) then it means it applies 2x.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2245	Posted - 2014.03.19 14:04:00 - [15] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: People don't use complex plates? I have both regular and ferroscale complex plates in my fits. The complex plate is for those fits that only have room for one plate and I don't care about speed. The complex ferroscale is where I want some more armor buffer and don't want any speed hit. Speed seems to be a really touchy subject. There is a point where it matters when it helps you strafe more bullets, then there is a point where it doesn't really effect it. There is also a point where it helps your objective to objective sprint rate, then there is a point where that speed doesn't matter so much. The more defensive you are planning on being with your suit, especially in a squad that more 'point defense' oriented, the more a little bit of speed penalty doesn't really matter.

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