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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
Top Men.
764
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Posted - 2014.02.17 19:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
In the future, we might have the Scout's role changed from 'cloaky assassin' to 'uplink and scanner runner'
That's nowhere near as drastic compared to the 'min logi is going from scouty logi to heavy hugger, scouts are now cloaky rather than profile dampened, commandos are now tied to racial weaponry, assaults are also tied to racials'
Pre 1.8, we can run Galassaults with Scramblers because there wasn't any direct 'bonus' to the usage of hybrids. min assaults could run scrambler pistols and Smg's because before there wasn't a bonus to the usage of 'racial weaponry'
Pre 1.8 a caldari/minmatar/gallente loyalists HAS to run Amarr heavy, and an Amarr heavy has to either run Scrambler, or minmatar HMG.
Things as simple as a SINGLE, SIMPLE role change, do NOT deserve refund/respec, however, we've changed EVERY role in the game, making this necessary.
'In eve we don't give respecs' true, but 'in Eve' we didn't start the game with a minmatar logistics ship, gallente scout frigate, amarr battlecruiser, and a caldari Assault frigate. 'In eve' we don't change the entire game and their role's bonuses every half year. 'In Eve' it doesn't take an entire month to start to run 1 weapon type(shotguns, swarms, snipers) or to even get 1 dropsuit class (heavies)
Under 28db
'That's about as scary as Deviljho riding a Jhen Mohran.'
Said 1.8 Assault to the Commando.
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Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
Top Men.
765
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Posted - 2014.02.17 21:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Lynn Beck wrote: 'In Eve' it doesn't take an entire month to start to run 1 weapon type(shotguns, swarms, snipers) or to even get 1 dropsuit class (heavies) small tech 2 rails 6 days medium tech 2 rails 20 days large tech 2 rails 48 days 24 days to fly a tech 2 frig with no support skills, it only gets you in the hull. 2 days for Damage control II 8 hours for Small armor repairer II 2 days for the medium armor repairer II 6 days for a Large Jut to get into a tech 2 frig with only a T2 version of damage controls, railguns and armor repairs takes around 28 days. A weapon in dust can be skilled into in about 2 hours and an advanced within a day. I don't think you are 100% accurate. You don't have to fly everything at tech 2..... Quit weighting the argument. I am not, he said it takes a month to do anything in DUST and that EVE isn't the same way. If you are going proto then yes it does take a month but it isn't out of line with EVE. Standard and advanced gear is easy and inexpensive to get into. I am just showing that it does take time to get the best equipment because I don't think he is talking about skilling into basic or advanced gear.
In EVE you don't need maximum SP into a specialization to be able to fight an assault frig.
You could use a Thrasher(destroyer) or a Rifter/slasher.
You can get a lv3 all skills Rifter in about 3 days.(gun, afterburner, shield booster, stasis web, Gyro.)
In DUST if you want to run a moderately decent shotgun scout you need Biotics V, kincats 1, weaponry 3, lw op 4, and shotgun op 1.
That's 1-2 mill SP right there, not to mention the sp for profile dampening and a STANDARD remote.
Under 28db
'That's about as scary as Deviljho riding a Jhen Mohran.'
Said 1.8 Assault to the Commando.
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Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
Top Men.
766
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Posted - 2014.02.17 23:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
At the VERY VERY least, refund SP into heavy weapons, heavy/light tree, and equipment(nanocircuitry, uplinks, scanners)
Current logis need to be able to take their current logi choice and be given the chance to 'spec' back with their racial choice.
Heavies who are tired of being shortended need to be able to spec out, assaults/commandos/slayer logis need to be able to redistribute the SP they were given to be able to spec properly into the bew foundation CCP has laid out.
'No respec/refund' shafts scouts, logis(true ones), sentinels, and commandos.
You simply CANNOT shaft 90% of the minority and expect to get away with it, just look at the american segregation. True, '90%' of the game is Fotm slayer logis and assaults, but just because they can live with spending 2.3 mill SP into their 1 new OP weapon is different than a Sentinel who wishes to go Caldari who's just spent 6-15 million SP into their 1 role that will be null: Armor upgrades, armor plates, repairers, HMG operation/proficiency, FG operation/proficiency, Sentinel operation. Refund those if you're deadset on only having a 100 player max like Armored Core V/VD.
Under 28db
'That's about as scary as Deviljho riding a Jhen Mohran.'
Said 1.8 Assault to the Commando.
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Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
Top Men.
766
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Posted - 2014.02.17 23:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Refuse a respec and the vets will still stomp the newbies. It's the way this game rolls: my Min scout will still hit at 400 knife damage a slash. My Cr will still melt nearly any single person within my clip.
My amarr commando will still have a reload bonus to Combat rifles.
My minmatar assault will get a bonus to my Mass Driver/flaylock.
Go ahead, refuse me a refund, i'll simply play Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate more, i'll buy that 'Super niche' 300-400 playerbase game that treats it's players the way the want to be treated.
I'll just return in half a year, with even more SP to blow than i have now, and i'll be twoce as powerful as i would be without a refund.
And god help us, if CCP hasn't added PVE or corp contracts... I will simply stomp people all day long in my newly acquired Min Commando.
I might even stomp the academy, just to test new suits on alts.
T E S T M E .
Under 28db
'That's about as scary as Deviljho riding a Jhen Mohran.'
Said 1.8 Assault to the Commando.
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Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
Top Men.
769
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 15:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Also, one important fact is that few peeps actually spend money on SP boosters. This furter complicates motivating not giving a full infantry respec, due to the fact that CCP may lose out on a business opportunity if the player cant see the value in buying SP boosters when their builds may change for the better or worst with every patch.
Im not even going to post goodbye if I dont get my infantry SP refunded. Ill just be gone ;)
So first you're for respecs, then you're against it.
First you state it's simply good will, that the should do it to keep as much of this dwindling playerbase as possible, then you stare that they shouldn't because it's better for their pockets?
I seem to have the other idea. If you keep shitting on your customers, demanding that they put up with what your changes to their decisions are, nobody with a budget would spend money to 'accelerate' their learning, because CCP will just curb stomp your decisions again and again. Less boosters, less money.
However if people actually have a feeling of customer worth, that when sweeping changes come by they'll be given fair treatment, they'll spend more BOOSTERS to optimize the setups they ACTUALLY want to run,not the nostalgic 'ahh, this thing used to have bonuses to hacking/profile dampeneing/armor repair/taco efficacy, now it's a reload bonus for nova knives.'
No SP refund=academy stomping FOR DAYYZ
Your choice CCP.
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Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
Top Men.
770
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Posted - 2014.02.18 19:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
To the people saying 'respec will further the FoTM crowd'
WHAT IS THE FOTM???
Cal heavy with scr? Nah, throw a flux and a MD round or 2.
Gal heavy with RR? Nah, just throw an HMG/Cr user his way.
Please. Tell me what this Fotm will be, and i will stand aside and lick your fleshy parts for beating DUST.
(A FoTm is a fitting/racial class that CANNOT be beaten, think back to the yellow power ranger.)
No SP refund=academy stomping FOR DAYYZ
Your choice CCP.
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Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
Top Men.
775
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Posted - 2014.02.19 22:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'd be fine with the 'no moar respecz' people getting their way, IF there weren't so many damn sweeping changes this patch.
Say, 3-4 months from now, when they add pilot suits, that's not respec worthy.
Say, 4-5 years from now, when racial tanks come in, your only re-allocation would be in turrets and (maybe) upgrades(say going from caldari to minmatar, you would need nitrous instead of damage mods)
Those wouldn't need full respecs, because you're not getting changes to any and all existing equipment.
However 1.8 IS bringing super game changing, racially aligned changes.
You CANNOT run Gek+ cal assault anymore.
You CANNOT run a Laser rifle galScout anymore.
You CANNOT run Minlogi with dampeners/uplinks/code breakers anymore
Respec.
Edit: imagine if in EvE they made Rails and Blasters not use the same skill.
Imagine if you could no longer viably run a Caldari battleship with blasters, or a gallente cruiser with rails.
Would this NOT deem a refund in SP?
No SP refund=academy stomping FOR DAYYZ
Your choice CCP.
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Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
Top Men.
783
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Posted - 2014.02.20 08:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
And then starve their children by not paying them for thinking they can just 'lol april fools nubs' us all the time.
No SP refund=academy stomping FOR DAYYZ
Proud owner of 69 'Fleshriver' Nk's.
No i don't buy AUR
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Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
Top Men.
783
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Posted - 2014.02.20 08:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Haerr wrote:Lynn Beck wrote:And then starve their children by not paying them for thinking they can just 'lol april fools nubs' us all the time. 
No SP refund=academy stomping FOR DAYYZ
Proud owner of 69 'Fleshriver' Nk's.
No i don't buy AUR
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Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
Top Men.
798
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 00:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Just wait till gallente commando ends up with a bug whwre its reload speed bonus is 20% per level instead of 5%, and you're complaining that NS is hacking because they were 'smart' and saved SP for gal commandos, whereas the rest lf is are walking around going '******* nyain, commando stomping everyone, ehy doesn't my amarr commando do that!?' And nobody tells CCP because nobody trustworthy skilled it to find out.
No SP refund=academy stomping FOR DAYYZ
Proud owner of 69 'Fleshriver' Nk's.
No i don't buy AUR
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Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
Top Men.
810
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Posted - 2014.02.27 17:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
I'm currently a commando, but i use minmatar weaponry.
Currently this doesn't matter because the bonus doesn't apply to all amarr weaponry, but in 1.8 half my bonus is going to weapons I DON'T USE.
I'm sure there are many amarr healer logis who are ticked off that they now HAVE to skill uplinks to be effective. Gallente and their scanner, minmatar and rep tools.
What about minmatar assaults who used to play sniper?
What of acouts who now HAVE to skill cloaks to utilize their role, whereas currently they use rifle+knives and a remote explosive?
What of
No SP refund=academy stomping FOR DAYYZ
Proud owner of 69 'Fleshriver' Nk's.
No i don't buy AUR
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Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
Top Men.
810
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 00:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
The people arguing against a single respec when 1.8 comes are saying it likr we're going to get respecs every month, and how it devalues SP decisions and such.
A SINGLE respec doesn't devalue our decisions. Taking our ferrari and making it an airplane does. It's still cool, it's worth the same amount of money, but it does 2 completely different things.
One (1) respec for the (hopefully) single time they completely change every suit on some of the most fundamental levels.
I they do another complete overhaul that makes scouts the dedicated uplink runners and Logis don't need equipment because they ARE the equipment(think AoE buffs, like 4.5% ammo resupplied to allies per level) then that would warrant a respec, as logis have no need for equipment skills and scouts have a new fundamental need.
1.8 is making many heavies shield reliant. Many scouts are now more reliant on dampening(min scout now NEEDS lv5 dampening to dodge a lv3 gallogi(?)) many logis are now required to spec into things they may not hve previously specced into. What good is a minlogi specced into dampeners and biotics, who utilizes uplinks? What good is an amarr logi who shield tanks and uses rep tools? What about a Minmatar assault who uses Gallente weaponry, or a gallente (don't say they deserve it because of Fotm) using Rail Rifles to pay homage to their favorite build in EVE?
What of the current 'amarr' commandos who use Plasma Cannons and Assault Rifles? Combat rifle mass driver? Only those who currently use laser rifles and scrambler rifles will be unaffected. What of the people who were really smart and use multi-racial weapon sets? Some use Swarm/scrambler, others use Sniper rifle/AR.
They will be screwed over the most if they aren't given weapon refunds because they likely have 4 million SP into each weapon and are now going to be punished because of the lack of bonus to at least half their new build.
A 1.8 amarr commando will be better off using a Militia AR on their gal commando than a proto or advanced Scrambler. A caldari sentinel will be better off using a Standard RR or sniper than the Laser rifle.
In the near future we are expecting a Minmatar sniper rifle, do i expect a full respec when that happens? No, but a refund in sniper SP would be beneficial. Same for when the Amarr get a shotgun, or when the Caldari get a variant of the Mass Deover(missile rifle?) they will refund SP for that specific weapon and nothing else.
Add in MTaC? No tank refunds. Add in Fighters? No derpie refunds(maybe ads, but we'll have to discuss that when it happens.
As long as they add in new roles or weapon types with racial types at the same time or within an announced timframe(like "hey, we're releasing a marksman rifle for the Amarr, but the different tacials won't be out till later, and we aren't refunding SP when it does" would do the community wonders. I'm imagining they'll still whine, but much less so than if tey released the others later and gave no indications.)
Edit: when the different Racial turrets come in, i expect full turret refunds as well.
No SP refund=academy stomping FOR DAYYZ
Proud owner of 69 'Fleshriver' Nk's.
No i don't buy AUR
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Lynn Beck
Wake N' Bake Inc
Top Men.
820
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Posted - 2014.03.06 07:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Tallen Ellecon wrote:When the game first came out everyone wasn't given a large pool of SP to instantly spec into whatever they wanted. Now that new suits are here why should they do that now. I've said it before and I'll say it again, respecs don't create balance, and they don't help anyone who starts playing after they are given. Nobody NEEDS a respec, they just really WANT one. You are correct and they are not needed by the person but I think it is needed by the game. I do hate saying that. Giving players a large pool of SP is probably a bad idea because people will get hurt when buffed or nerfed. When they hand it out it is going to be very interesting, I am serious when I say I'm not going to put any SP anywhere for about two weeks or more. Pure starters, just for fun.
Hmm. I've already prepared every point of my SP if full respec happens, and if only heavy/light siits are refunded, i'll still be fine because i'll have 2 scouts at the time. Along with a proto'd commando.
No SP refund=academy stomping FOR DAYYZ
Proud owner of 69 'Fleshriver' Nk's.
No i don't buy AUR
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Lynn Beck
Wake N' Bake Inc
Top Men.
820
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 07:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
From what we've heard so far, medium frames' CPU/pg and slotcounts are staying unchanged, so they're planning on changing them again at a later date. This leads me to conclude a FULL respec in 1.8 would only enrage the medframes down the line if any slots are removed(callogi's 5/4 setup, amarr's lack of a slot, minmatar assault's inability to use armor, yet caldari gets 4/3 allowing more freeedom between twin/damage tanking.)
From my opinion, i would say still refund SP from Light/Heavy skilltrees, as many people are currently Amarr commando/galscout wishing to change races,(min commando for me) armor and shields aren't that necessary Atm, however a decent argument could lead me the other way.
Equipment with logis has been changed, so i'm betting we should refund equipment only/all upgrades.
Weapons i feel isn't that much of a problem come 1.8, as their roles are staying the same, hoever their roles with their suits is changing drastically, so this one could again be argued.
We could go two ways: not respec until medframe changes, upsetting the logis/commando/sentinel/scouts in the community, however opens the avenue of respeccing come medframe changes.
Other way would be to respec now, telling medframes to be careful spending SP there, as when the changes come they're not being respecced again. Alternatively we could refund medframe SP again when it comes time, but that's more neckbeard rage.
As a nice alternative, we could refund only light/heavy skill trees in 1.8, followed by a full respec come 1.x when medframes change again.
(Might be repeating itself, but i hope it makes sense enough for you to understand)
No SP refund=academy stomping FOR DAYYZ
Proud owner of 69 'Fleshriver' Nk's.
No i don't buy AUR
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Lynn Beck
Wake N' Bake Inc
Top Men.
820
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 07:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Or just always refund SP when a change is made.
That is bad. Very very Bad.
We can't be refunding SP every time a change is made, as that would just exascerbate the FoTM problem, along with any balancing changes: sure, everyone's using RR, but what's the reason? If its' doing comparitively good against Shotguns, the its' the hipfire/DPS/spool time. However... Nobody is using shotties because RR is the FoTM. Therefore CCP isn't able to say 'RR is too good because CQC ability steps on shotgun, nerf CQC RR.
Only time full refunds are given is when the game fundamentally shifts, or when CCP screws something up- like typoing EVERY skill in the tree.(vehicle engineering?)
No SP refund=academy stomping FOR DAYYZ
Proud owner of 69 'Fleshriver' Nk's.
No i don't buy AUR
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Lynn Beck
Wake N' Bake Inc
Top Men.
823
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 07:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
Minlogi will go from around a 3 secon hack to a 5 second or so hack.
Compared to minscout who will hack in about 3.5 seconds.(3 lows as to 4)
In the new patch, a Gallogi will beat a minlogi in hacking.
No SP refund=academy stomping FOR DAYYZ
Proud owner of 69 'Fleshriver' Nk's.
No i don't buy AUR
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