DUST Search - Questions about Tanks/Vehicles

Hagintora wrote:

Takahiro Kashuken wrote:

No its both

Weapons have basic/adv/proto same as suits and all the mods

Now vehicles have mlt/std and if that is all then vehicles maybe chosen to be tiercided but how can you only have part of it tiercided?

Frankly if my vehicle is going to be tiercided you really think i want basic AV to kill me? when i have no option of upgrading my vehicle hull to adv/proto level or increase the slot layout/PG/CPU and im stuck with the same hull yet have to fight proto level AV

You either tiercide everything or you stick with basic/adv/proto because while we have both it wont work

Exactly. Now, while Tanks seem to be doing a good job of fending off Proto AV (one glance at the forums immediately tells you that, imbalanced though it may be), adding in ADV and PRO hulls for tanks will only make the situation worse. CCP will once again have to go back to the drawing board for Vehicle/AV balance. But, moving Dropsuits over to match how Vehicles are (Tiericided, and Techcided), will put everybody on the same system, thereby making it easier to see where the actual imbalance lies.

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Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 194	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:26:00 - [1] - Quote How exactly can you achieve any kind of balance if the Vehicles Chassis are at MLT/STD but all the Turrets/Modules/AV have ADV and PRO versions? It seems to me, and I could be wrong, that part of the reason the tanks are seemingly OP is because is because of these discrepancies. Why didn't CCP knock everything down to MLT/STD, I mean all Vehicles/Turrets/Modules/AV, everything associated with that side of the game and start there?
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 4688	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:34:00 - [2] - Quote Vehicle hulls (especially HAVs) are tiericided, and techicided. All of your STD, ADV, and PRO turrets & modules are all fitted onto the same hull, and the extra benifits (such as CPU/PG) come from core skills. Balanced is achieved by balancing AV weapons not around the hull itself, but what gear is fitted onto the hull. MLT/STD AV = MLT // Basic Modules ADV AV = Enhanced Modules PRO AV = Complex Modules Tiercided AV sounds good, but then you'd have to have an actual incentive to spend SP on more than just tier 1 (STD) gear, otherwise you run into the problem that vehicles have currently. Want to know how to make a strike-through? [s[Example[/s] Now go my Forum Warriors. Use this new weapon for glory!
R F Gyro Clones 4u 1181	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:34:00 - [3] - Quote If that were the reason, wouldn't we have the opposite problem? Tanks not being able to survive in the face of proto AV. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 195	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:37:00 - [4] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: If that were the reason, wouldn't we have the opposite problem? Tanks not being able to survive in the face of proto AV. No, because AV would be MLT/STD as well. I'm asking why they didn't just put everything on the same base level (MLT/STD) and go from there?
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 195	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:43:00 - [5] - Quote Atiim wrote: Vehicle hulls (especially HAVs) are tiericided, and techicided. All of your STD, ADV, and PRO turrets & modules are all fitted onto the same hull, and the extra benifits (such as CPU/PG) come from core skills. Balanced is achieved by balancing AV weapons not around the hull itself, but what gear is fitted onto the hull. MLT/STD AV = MLT // Basic Modules ADV AV = Enhanced Modules PRO AV = Complex Modules Tiercided AV sounds good, but then you'd have to have an actual incentive to spend SP on more than just tier 1 (STD) gear, otherwise you run into the problem that vehicles have currently. Ok, so vehicle hulls aren't going to have ADV or PRO versions? Seems a little a little odd, considering the rest of the game, but alright.
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1705	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:47:00 - [6] - Quote Hagintora wrote: Atiim wrote: Vehicle hulls (especially HAVs) are tiericided, and techicided. All of your STD, ADV, and PRO turrets & modules are all fitted onto the same hull, and the extra benifits (such as CPU/PG) come from core skills. Balanced is achieved by balancing AV weapons not around the hull itself, but what gear is fitted onto the hull. MLT/STD AV = MLT // Basic Modules ADV AV = Enhanced Modules PRO AV = Complex Modules Tiercided AV sounds good, but then you'd have to have an actual incentive to spend SP on more than just tier 1 (STD) gear, otherwise you run into the problem that vehicles have currently. Ok, so vehicle hulls aren't going to have ADV or PRO versions? Seems a little a little odd, considering the rest of the game, but alright. The rest of the game is half the problem, not vehicles. The rest of it is balance issues. 'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever! Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 357	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:48:00 - [7] - Quote Ideally, wouldn't the tiercided/technicided AV weapon/vehicle hull skills provide some form of bonus like that of the Core Skills/Weapon Operation at the moment instead of providing access to simply better weapons? So, for example, a Level 3 Swarm Launcher user would get "15% reduced lock-on time" over the "5% reduced lock-on time" of the Level 1 Swarm Launcher user, or the "0% reduced lock-on time" of the militia Swarm Launcher user. Is that what you are driving at Attim? If so, I could definitely get behind something in that vein.
R F Gyro Clones 4u 1185	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:51:00 - [8] - Quote Hagintora wrote: R F Gyro wrote: If that were the reason, wouldn't we have the opposite problem? Tanks not being able to survive in the face of proto AV. No, because AV would be MLT/STD as well. I'm asking why they didn't just put everything on the same base level (MLT/STD) and go from there? Sorry, I wasn't particularly clear there. I was suggesting that if you were right then we'd be seeing the opposite problem right now. Rather than seeing the tank spam we have now we'd almost never see tanks because they wouldn't stand a chance against the prototype AV we have now. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 4690	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:54:00 - [9] - Quote Hagintora wrote: Tiercided AV sounds good, but then you'd have to have an actual incentive to spend SP on more than just tier 1 (STD) gear, otherwise you run into the problem that vehicles have currently. Ok, so vehicle hulls aren't going to have ADV or PRO versions? Seems a little a little odd, considering the rest of the game, but alright.[/quote] If CCP takes what the CPM and Playerbase says with a grain of salt, dropsuits will also be tiericided as well. When CCP adds more hulls, it will most likely be specialized hulls such as the Enforcers were. Want to know how to make a strike-through? [s[Example[/s] Now go my Forum Warriors. Use this new weapon for glory!
Alternate Insano SUICIDE SPITE SQUAD 73	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:55:00 - [10] - Quote Play or play not, there is no balance. DUST 514 Super Scrub Level 262 Forum Troll Star Citizen is what EVE should have been.

Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 195	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:56:00 - [11] - Quote Atiim wrote: If CCP takes what the CPM and Playerbase says with a grain of salt, dropsuits will also be tiericided as well. When CCP adds more hulls, it will most likely be specialized hulls such as the Enforcers were. Ok, so is this more of a problem that part of the game is Tiericided (Tanks), and the rest of the game is not?
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2561	Posted - 2014.02.15 22:26:00 - [12] - Quote Hagintora wrote: How exactly can you achieve any kind of balance if the Vehicles Chassis are at MLT/STD but all the Turrets/Modules/AV have ADV and PRO versions? It seems to me, and I could be wrong, that part of the reason the tanks are seemingly OP is because is because of these discrepancies. Why didn't CCP knock everything down to MLT/STD, I mean all Vehicles/Turrets/Modules/AV, everything associated with that side of the game and start there? Because they did that to begin with 1.0-1.6 everything was meta level 1-3 which is basic, only the turrets were basic/adv/proto Problem is we were against proto suits/mods and AV weapons and the proto AV weapons would just ** any vehicle no problem Now we have basic/adv/proto mods and turrets still and are against proto suits/mods and AV weapons Now the proto AV weapons are not as powerful because of proto mods which can reduce the damage but the hull itself is still mlt/std We need our adv/proto vehicles If we have our adv/proto vehicles it further seperates the fotm and true pilots but also it means they can finally balance AV with vehicles So basic AV to basic vehicle etc Problem is again infantry who dont want us to have adv/proto vehicles but im not going to ride around and wait for 1 proto AV to ** me because that already happened for 6months from 1.0-1.6 Hopefully CCP deliver sometime before i give up Intelligence is OP
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 195	Posted - 2014.02.15 22:43:00 - [13] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: [quote=Hagintora]Problem is we were against proto suits/mods and AV weapons and the proto AV weapons That's my point. If Vehicles are only at MLT/STD then that's where AV needs to be too. But as Atiim pointed out, you guy's seem to Tiericided, which makes me wonder if that's not the problem. Since your slot count doesn't change, and neither does your CPU/PG (barring Mods, of course), you can always fit the same amount of things onto your tank; the only thing that changes is the quality of what you put on (MLT/STD/ADV/PRO). But Dropsuits lose CPU/PG and Slot Count further down the chain they go, making them less viable as AV. It seems like part of the problem, at least from what I've been told so far in this thread, is that we have two completely different systems at play. Tanks cannot be balanced according to how Dropsuits function.
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1705	Posted - 2014.02.15 22:48:00 - [14] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Ideally, wouldn't the tiercided/technicided AV weapon/vehicle hull skills provide some form of bonus like that of the Core Skills/Weapon Operation at the moment instead of providing access to simply better weapons? So, for example, a Level 3 Swarm Launcher user would get "15% reduced lock-on time" over the "5% reduced lock-on time" of the Level 1 Swarm Launcher user, or the "0% reduced lock-on time" of the militia Swarm Launcher user. Is that what you are driving at Attim? If so, I could definitely get behind something in that vein. No, and it's techcided. 'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever! Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1705	Posted - 2014.02.15 22:51:00 - [15] - Quote Hagintora wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: [quote=Hagintora]Problem is we were against proto suits/mods and AV weapons and the proto AV weapons That's my point. If Vehicles are only at MLT/STD then that's where AV needs to be too. But as Atiim pointed out, you guy's seem to Tiericided, which makes me wonder if that's not the problem. Since your slot count doesn't change, and neither does your CPU/PG (barring Mods, of course), you can always fit the same amount of things onto your tank; the only thing that changes is the quality of what you put on (MLT/STD/ADV/PRO). But Dropsuits lose CPU/PG and Slot Count further down the chain they go, making them less viable as AV. It seems like part of the problem, at least from what I've been told so far in this thread, is that we have two completely different systems at play. Tanks cannot be balanced according to how Dropsuits function. ..... Yea, that's the point of my post. It's dropsuits, not vehicles that is making the problem worse. Anywys, there's more problems than just that. 'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever! Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 195	Posted - 2014.02.15 22:58:00 - [16] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: ..... Yea, that's the point of my post. It's dropsuits, not vehicles that is making the problem worse. Anywys, there's more problems than just that. Well that seems a pretty substantial one to me, but what other problems would you list?
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 197	Posted - 2014.02.16 00:09:00 - [17] - Quote It would seem that a better idea than trying to bring Vehicles in line with Dropsuits, would be to instead, bring Dropsuits in line with Vehicles. I'm not claiming this to be a "one button fix", as it were, but I think would be a step in the right direction for overall Vehicle/Infantry balance.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2565	Posted - 2014.02.16 14:02:00 - [18] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Hagintora wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: [quote=Hagintora]Problem is we were against proto suits/mods and AV weapons and the proto AV weapons That's my point. If Vehicles are only at MLT/STD then that's where AV needs to be too. But as Atiim pointed out, you guy's seem to Tiericided, which makes me wonder if that's not the problem. Since your slot count doesn't change, and neither does your CPU/PG (barring Mods, of course), you can always fit the same amount of things onto your tank; the only thing that changes is the quality of what you put on (MLT/STD/ADV/PRO). But Dropsuits lose CPU/PG and Slot Count further down the chain they go, making them less viable as AV. It seems like part of the problem, at least from what I've been told so far in this thread, is that we have two completely different systems at play. Tanks cannot be balanced according to how Dropsuits function. ..... Yea, that's the point of my post. It's dropsuits, not vehicles that is making the problem worse. Anywys, there's more problems than just that. No its both Weapons have basic/adv/proto same as suits and all the mods Now vehicles have mlt/std and if that is all then vehicles maybe chosen to be tiercided but how can you only have part of it tiercided? Frankly if my vehicle is going to be tiercided you really think i want basic AV to kill me? when i have no option of upgrading my vehicle hull to adv/proto level or increase the slot layout/PG/CPU and im stuck with the same hull yet have to fight proto level AV You either tiercide everything or you stick with basic/adv/proto because while we have both it wont work Intelligence is OP
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 197	Posted - 2014.02.16 15:16:00 - [19] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: No its both Weapons have basic/adv/proto same as suits and all the mods Now vehicles have mlt/std and if that is all then vehicles maybe chosen to be tiercided but how can you only have part of it tiercided? Frankly if my vehicle is going to be tiercided you really think i want basic AV to kill me? when i have no option of upgrading my vehicle hull to adv/proto level or increase the slot layout/PG/CPU and im stuck with the same hull yet have to fight proto level AV You either tiercide everything or you stick with basic/adv/proto because while we have both it wont work Exactly. Now, while Tanks seem to be doing a good job of fending off Proto AV (one glance at the forums immediately tells you that, imbalanced though it may be), adding in ADV and PRO hulls for tanks will only make the situation worse. CCP will once again have to go back to the drawing board for Vehicle/AV balance. But, moving Dropsuits over to match how Vehicles are (Tiericided, and Techcided), will put everybody on the same system, thereby making it easier to see where the actual imbalance lies.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2566	Posted - 2014.02.16 15:59:00 - [20] - Quote Hagintora wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: No its both Weapons have basic/adv/proto same as suits and all the mods Now vehicles have mlt/std and if that is all then vehicles maybe chosen to be tiercided but how can you only have part of it tiercided? Frankly if my vehicle is going to be tiercided you really think i want basic AV to kill me? when i have no option of upgrading my vehicle hull to adv/proto level or increase the slot layout/PG/CPU and im stuck with the same hull yet have to fight proto level AV You either tiercide everything or you stick with basic/adv/proto because while we have both it wont work Exactly. Now, while Tanks seem to be doing a good job of fending off Proto AV (one glance at the forums immediately tells you that, imbalanced though it may be), adding in ADV and PRO hulls for tanks will only make the situation worse. CCP will once again have to go back to the drawing board for Vehicle/AV balance. But, moving Dropsuits over to match how Vehicles are (Tiericided, and Techcided), will put everybody on the same system, thereby making it easier to see where the actual imbalance lies. I think it would be better with basic/adv/proto across the board Basic AV = basic vehicle Adv AV = adv vehicle Proto AV = proto vehicle Intelligence is OP



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