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[Discussion] the cloak and the logi

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Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 1261	Posted - 2014.02.15 20:54:00 - [1] - Quote Ok so, I've been playing around with the numbers and making fittings, so that I can assess the viability of using a cloak on a logi suit. Before we get to the meat of the discussion, I would first like to present the best fitting that I was able to create, and get your opinion about functionality: 1) do you think it is functionally viable? 2) what would you have done differently and why? (only one fittings example is given, using the prot Gallente logi. Please feel free to post fittings of other race logi fittings or iterate on this one) Relevant stats Fittings shield/armor: 178/318 Fitting max CPU/PG: 640/116 Fitting consumed CPU/PG: 623/115 Fitting shield recharge rate: 24.81 HP/s Fitting max stamina/stamina recovery: 200.81/23.28 Fitting armor repair rate: 0.0 HP/s Fitting movement speed: 4.61 m/s Fitting sprint speed: 7.62 m/s Fitting profile with cloak inactive: 45 dB Fitting profile with cloak active: 34 dB Gear Complex shield extender Complex shield energizer Complex light damage modifier Kaalakiota rail rifle Locus grenade Proto type scanner (doesn't really matter which one) Allotek nanohive Standard cloak field (CPU/PG consumption: 160/35) Wiyrkomi nanite injector Complex power grid upgrade (+128 CPU; for complex would be +179) Enhanced CPU upgrade (14 PG at the cost of 24 CPU) Enhanced cardiac regulator Complex kinetic catalyzer Basic armor plate So, how viable is this? Will being able to cloak make up for the sacrifices that have to be made here (not to mention you only get to use the standard cloak field). Please I would very much like to hear the community's thoughts on this, as well as anyone who may have better fittings ideas, and reasons why they would be better. Or simply reasons why this fitting is terrible if you like. Here is a few points, which I feel should be the "meat" of this discussin: 1. Is the sacrifice to fit a cloak to high? 2. Should a proto type logi at least be able to fit an advanced cloak without making further fittings sacrifices? 3. Why is that CCP is not going to let the logi bonus to CPU/PG cost of equipment apply to the cloak field? Do you agree or disagree with CCP on this. My opinions on the above three: 1. Yes 2. Yes 3. If the bonus were to apply to the cloak field as well, you would get a total of 40/9 extra CPU/PG to work with for your fitting. Take a look at the fitting I posted and see what you can do with 40/9. Or, incorporate this into your own fittings idea, and then tell me if you think this specific equipment should be being singled out and barred from benefiting from the logi bonus. The only thing I can think of to do is add a prototype grenade and a complex cardiac regulator. I look forward to your opinions/discussion. Thank you for reading. {:)}{3GÇó>
ALT2 acc The Phoenix Federation Proficiency V. 93	Posted - 2014.02.15 20:56:00 - [2] - Quote Needs a armor rep, and a adv weapon not proto
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1674	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:10:00 - [3] - Quote It's not really viable. You're shield tanking a suit with terrible recharge and recharge delays and even with the cloak active you will be scanned by too many things. I say you're welcome to use that fit if you want. I think you would be better off with dropping the Cloak and just run double dampeners if you want to be stealthy. You're far too slow in that fit and you'll still shimmer when running around with the Cloak active. Plus I'm still fairly sure Logis will get a CPU/PG nerf, so I believe you would have to gimp your fit even more. Anyway I'm just not sure what CCP's plan is. When they make it so that non-Scouts have to totally gimp their fittings to the point where it's not viable just to use the Cloak, then why even allow them to use it in the first place? Give the Cloak normal fitting requirements and just invalidate the fitting if non-Scouts put it on, and then give Scouts another useful suit bonus. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1904	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:16:00 - [4] - Quote I am under the assumption that Is a Caldari logistics. If so why does it have 4 equipment? For the Federation!
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 1261	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:20:00 - [5] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: snip OP was changed. {:)}{3GÇó>
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 947	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:22:00 - [6] - Quote as a scout, I welcome medium frames like logi's using cloaks. you'll be easier to see(you're physically larger, so more shimmer per shimmer effect will be visible) you'll have less health than I do(finally, someone does!) and, I already learned how to do stealth without it. so at this point it's just gravy for scouts to actually be invisible, instead of just mostly invisible(since people in the "good" corps rely more on their active scanners than their eyes anyways) So, fit away, just know that you won't fool a scout. If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 1210	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:27:00 - [7] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: as a scout, I welcome medium frames like logi's using cloaks. you'll be easier to see(you're physically larger, so more shimmer per shimmer effect will be visible) you'll have less health than I do(finally, someone does!) and, I already learned how to do stealth without it. so at this point it's just gravy for scouts to actually be invisible, instead of just mostly invisible(since people in the "good" corps rely more on their active scanners than their eyes anyways) So, fit away, just know that you won't fool a scout. I feel the same way. The fit above seems like about the right amount of trade-off in terms of health and modules (since some are used for PG/CPU upgrades). And I think needing to run a gimped proto logi suit just to run a standard cloak is about right how it should be. It's possible, but it requires some extreme sacrifice.
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution 5158	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:29:00 - [8] - Quote On my current Logi suit, a standard cloak would take up one third of my PG. On a Prototype suit. Unless I make extreme sacrifices (get rid of equipment, downgrade mods or weapon, etc. etc.) it will be very hard and not viable to fit. > GÇ£I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.GÇ¥ -Oscar Wilde
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 1261	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:30:00 - [9] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: as a scout, I welcome medium frames like logi's using cloaks. you'll be easier to see(you're physically larger, so more shimmer per shimmer effect will be visible) you'll have less health than I do(finally, someone does!) and, I already learned how to do stealth without it. so at this point it's just gravy for scouts to actually be invisible, instead of just mostly invisible(since people in the "good" corps rely more on their active scanners than their eyes anyways) So, fit away, just know that you won't fool a scout. I am simply seeking community input on the viability of "cloaked logies". And discussion on how to make them more viable if it is the community consensus that they would be UP. As I stated in the OP, I am of the opinion that there should be at least one other suit class capable of being at least simi-viable with the cloak. {:)}{3GÇó>
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 1211	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:34:00 - [10] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: I am simply seeking community input on the viability of "cloaked logies". And discussion on how to make them more viable if it is the community consensus that they would be UP. As I stated in the OP, I am of the opinion that there should be at least one other suit class capable of being at least simi-viable with the cloak. I think your post was clear and well-written. And I think the sacrifices made to fit the cloak on a logi are not so extreme as to invalidate the fit. I mean ~500 HP w/ 3-4 EQ slots and the ability to cloak seems viable. It's an expensive way to be invisible, for sure.... but I think that's about the limit of what should be possible for non-scouts fitting a cloak.

Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1705	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:35:00 - [11] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Nvm... I believe it should be allowable for Gallente to benefit from these. Along with some other changes to dampeners.... stealth technology is ours yet the only suit that benefits from it are scouts. Gallented have no EVE related niche and thus are turned into a terrible bootleg copy of the Caldari... Caldari made cloaks..... 'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever! Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Llast 326 An Arkhos 1884	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:39:00 - [12] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: as a scout, I welcome medium frames like logi's using cloaks. you'll be easier to see(you're physically larger, so more shimmer per shimmer effect will be visible) you'll have less health than I do(finally, someone does!) and, I already learned how to do stealth without it. so at this point it's just gravy for scouts to actually be invisible, instead of just mostly invisible(since people in the "good" corps rely more on their active scanners than their eyes anyways) So, fit away, just know that you won't fool a scout. I am simply seeking community input on the viability of "cloaked logies". And discussion on how to make them more viable if it is the community consensus that they would be UP. As I stated in the OP, I am of the opinion that there should be at least one other suit class capable of being at least simi-viable with the cloak. A lot of this will depend on the way the cloak is used. I think it will be viable on other suits, what you have built is not bad. It may not be the most viable way that the Gal logi could go. A lot of what you have seems to feel more a Cal logi fit. Recommendation for your fit would be getting the Profile down as much as possible. KRRROOOOOOM
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1705	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:43:00 - [13] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: as a scout, I welcome medium frames like logi's using cloaks. you'll be easier to see(you're physically larger, so more shimmer per shimmer effect will be visible) you'll have less health than I do(finally, someone does!) and, I already learned how to do stealth without it. so at this point it's just gravy for scouts to actually be invisible, instead of just mostly invisible(since people in the "good" corps rely more on their active scanners than their eyes anyways) So, fit away, just know that you won't fool a scout. I am simply seeking community input on the viability of "cloaked logies". And discussion on how to make them more viable if it is the community consensus that they would be UP. As I stated in the OP, I am of the opinion that there should be at least one other suit class capable of being at least simi-viable with the cloak. Logis aren't supposed to be "stealthy". Therefore, you're going outside of it's relm of expertise, and you should suffer fititng wise to make something like this work. No, the cloak shouldn't be viable on anything but the Scout (until another medium or heavy frame comes along that is stealth oriented). 'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever! Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 1117	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:50:00 - [14] - Quote A logistics suit is NOT a scout suit. If you want to "become" other suits, you have to lose things. Slayer logistics lost speed thanks to all their plates. Hunter (what I like to call it) sacrifice their slots and tank to cloak. If you want to use the cloak, use a scout suit. Just my two ISKies.
Jacques Cayton II Providence Guard Templis CALSF 600	Posted - 2014.02.15 21:53:00 - [15] - Quote yay more blood for my hmg like i couldnt see the predator type person in front of me We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
DEZKA DIABLO A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 179	Posted - 2014.02.15 22:05:00 - [16] - Quote Well ... 1. A LOGI using a cloak is there to kill not be a LOGI , all equip on ur suit aside drom the needle is basically personal 2. You have 500 HP, a proto scanner, passive armor rep, And rep hives, a cloak an the most op weapon at range in the game 3. Scan, cloak, uncloak kill, scan , cloak , uncloak , kill 4. If you die I will be highly disappointed 5. Even if your scanned, you will have them scanned so it's not like you can't kill anyone trying to get to you in a 100 m radius LOGI , cloak , scanner, rr, rep hives, one man hit squad = SOON TO BE FTOM OP
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 375	Posted - 2014.02.15 22:10:00 - [17] - Quote DEZKA DIABLO wrote: Well ... 1. A LOGI using a cloak is there to kill not be a LOGI , all equip on ur suit aside drom the needle is basically personal 2. You have 500 HP, a proto scanner, passive armor rep, And rep hives, a cloak an the most op weapon at range in the game 3. Scan, cloak, uncloak kill, scan , cloak , uncloak , kill 4. If you die I will be highly disappointed 5. Even if your scanned, you will have them scanned so it's not like you can't kill anyone trying to get to you in a 100 m radius LOGI , cloak , scanner, rr, rep hives, one man hit squad = SOON TO BE FTOM OP inb4nyainsanspamsambushcloakedprotologi 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 454	Posted - 2014.02.15 22:12:00 - [18] - Quote Viability is proven on the battlefield, not in a forum post or a spreadsheet. Me? I'll just wait for 1.8 and try it myself,,.,and in the meantime I will remain silent in these types of discussions because they tend to reinforce whatever preconceptions one has on the topic.
DEZKA DIABLO A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 180	Posted - 2014.02.15 22:16:00 - [19] - Quote NK Scout wrote: DEZKA DIABLO wrote: Well ... 1. A LOGI using a cloak is there to kill not be a LOGI , all equip on ur suit aside drom the needle is basically personal 2. You have 500 HP, a proto scanner, passive armor rep, And rep hives, a cloak an the most op weapon at range in the game 3. Scan, cloak, uncloak kill, scan , cloak , uncloak , kill 4. If you die I will be highly disappointed 5. Even if your scanned, you will have them scanned so it's not like you can't kill anyone trying to get to you in a 100 m radius LOGI , cloak , scanner, rr, rep hives, one man hit squad = SOON TO BE FTOM OP inb4nyainsanspamsambushcloakedprotologi Don't talk to me rat, make stupid threads then when people put u in ur place u report them an get them banned, can't wait to blow you up!
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 1261	Posted - 2014.02.15 22:17:00 - [20] - Quote Ok so, so far it seem that most people are ok with the sacrifices that need to be made (it may be early yet though). But what about the bar on cloak field from benefiting from the logi CPU/PG reduction skill bonus? No one has commented on this yet. As I said in my OP the difference would be 40/9 CPU/PG, and that the best upgrade to the demonstrated fitting that I could think of would be: complex cardiac regulator/proto grenade. What are your guys thoughts in this? {:)}{3GÇó>

NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 376	Posted - 2014.02.15 22:27:00 - [21] - Quote DEZKA DIABLO wrote: NK Scout wrote: DEZKA DIABLO wrote: Well ... 1. A LOGI using a cloak is there to kill not be a LOGI , all equip on ur suit aside drom the needle is basically personal 2. You have 500 HP, a proto scanner, passive armor rep, And rep hives, a cloak an the most op weapon at range in the game 3. Scan, cloak, uncloak kill, scan , cloak , uncloak , kill 4. If you die I will be highly disappointed 5. Even if your scanned, you will have them scanned so it's not like you can't kill anyone trying to get to you in a 100 m radius LOGI , cloak , scanner, rr, rep hives, one man hit squad = SOON TO BE FTOM OP inb4nyainsanspamsambushcloakedprotologi Don't talk to me rat, make stupid threads then when people put u in ur place u report them an get them banned, can't wait to blow you up! aww how cute, an idiot, he has no idea what hes saying. 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
DEZKA DIABLO A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 181	Posted - 2014.02.15 22:29:00 - [22] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Ok so, so far it seem that most people are ok with the sacrifices that need to be made (it may be early yet though). But what about the bar on cloak field from benefiting from the logi CPU/PG reduction skill bonus? No one has commented on this yet. As I said in my OP the difference would be 40/9 CPU/PG, and that the best upgrade to the demonstrated fitting that I could think of would be: complex cardiac regulator/proto grenade. What are your guys thoughts in this? Personally I don't think the sacrifice is enough honestly, wait until the Amar are using pro damage, charge shot ohk with scr, with base HP . It's ment for scouts to hide, not med frames to abuse, your fitting won't be the only style the better an more op way will be ghost mode, scanner, rep hives, damage , proto gun that decimate at range and profile damps in the lows, make that fit under 28 db an post stats, so .. Shields Damage ( as many as you can) plus factor proficiency 5 The scanner Rep hives And complex profile dampeners Show us stats
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 1261	Posted - 2014.02.15 22:40:00 - [23] - Quote DEZKA DIABLO wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Ok so, so far it seem that most people are ok with the sacrifices that need to be made (it may be early yet though). But what about the bar on cloak field from benefiting from the logi CPU/PG reduction skill bonus? No one has commented on this yet. As I said in my OP the difference would be 40/9 CPU/PG, and that the best upgrade to the demonstrated fitting that I could think of would be: complex cardiac regulator/proto grenade. What are your guys thoughts in this? Personally I don't think the sacrifice is enough honestly, wait until the Amar are using pro damage, charge shot ohk with scr, with base HP . It's ment for scouts to hide, not med frames to abuse, your fitting won't be the only style the better an more op way will be ghost mode, scanner, rep hives, damage , proto gun that decimate at range and profile damps in the lows, make that fit under 28 db an post stats, so .. Shields Damage ( as many as you can) plus factor proficiency 5 The scanner Rep hives And complex profile dampeners Show us stats It will be extremely slow/low stamina though, with only 30 seconds of invisibility, which means that, more than likely, the enemy will be able to easily eventually track you down and kill you. I'll make the fit if you like though, but I don't think that it will be as viable as the one I have posted, especially considering the changes coming to the active scanner. It'll take some time to create the fitting though. {:)}{3GÇó>
Hynox Xitio Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 9	Posted - 2014.02.15 22:42:00 - [24] - Quote I'm still a fan of the cloaking commando with nova knives and a plasma cannon. #Gank Unleash the Fogwoggler
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 1261	Posted - 2014.02.15 23:17:00 - [25] - Quote DEZKA DIABLO wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Ok so, so far it seem that most people are ok with the sacrifices that need to be made (it may be early yet though). But what about the bar on cloak field from benefiting from the logi CPU/PG reduction skill bonus? No one has commented on this yet. As I said in my OP the difference would be 40/9 CPU/PG, and that the best upgrade to the demonstrated fitting that I could think of would be: complex cardiac regulator/proto grenade. What are your guys thoughts in this? Personally I don't think the sacrifice is enough honestly, wait until the Amar are using pro damage, charge shot ohk with scr, with base HP . It's ment for scouts to hide, not med frames to abuse, your fitting won't be the only style the better an more op way will be ghost mode, scanner, rep hives, damage , proto gun that decimate at range and profile damps in the lows, make that fit under 28 db an post stats, so .. Shields Damage ( as many as you can) plus factor proficiency 5 The scanner Rep hives And complex profile dampeners Show us stats There you go: Poster reques fitting stats Relevant stats Fitting shield/armor: 178/346 Fitting max CPU/PG: 691/116 Fitting consumed CPU/PG: 649/113 Fitting shield recharge rate: 15 HP/s Fitting max stamina/stamina recovery: 131.25/12.60 Fitting armor repair rate: 0.0 HP/s Fitting movement speed: 4.61 m/s Fitting sprint speed: 6.77 m/s Fitting profile with cloak inactive: 26 dB Fitting profile with cloak active: 23 dB Gear Complex shield extender 2x Complex light damage modifier Visiam scrambler rifle Locus grenade Proto type scanner (doesn't really matter which one) 2x Allotek nanohive Standard cloak field (CPU/PG consumption: 160/35) Complex power grid upgrade (14 PG at the cost of 24 CPU) Complex CPU upgrade (+179 CPU) 2x complex dampener Basic armor plate {:)}{3GÇó>
I-Shayz-I I-----I 2328	Posted - 2014.02.15 23:47:00 - [26] - Quote 1. Cloak is about getting away from the battle, not using it agressively. Why the heck do you have a prototype weapon on a support suit that only has about 500 ehp? Not only is this a waste of fitting space, but is just a bad idea in general. 2. Complex shield energizer? That's another waste of 90 CPU 3. You need a complex armor repair on your suit, especially if you're only runnning 317 armor. There's no point in pulling out an allotek to repair 200 of your armor. 4. Get rid of the complex sprint mod too and use yet another armor repair. Remove one complex extender, and get rid of the cpu module. If you still have to use the pg mod use two plates and two armor repairers. That's more gallente style. I just don't understand what you were trying to do here...make it an expensive scout? The equipment setup seems like it's supposed to be for support, yet it is just all around confusing. Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 1975	Posted - 2014.02.15 23:52:00 - [27] - Quote It depends, the fit provided is by no means a combat/frontline logi, it might even make sense to drop the scanner for a repair tool. After playing a lot of Mass Effect 3 multiplayer you learn very quickly if you are a vanguardyou need to team up with an infiltrator. Vanguards go down ver easily, often deep in the midst of enemies and infiltrator can revive him WITHOUT taking flack. This is what essentially what this Logi can do, he can cloak through enemy lines to revive team mates in advantagoues positions. Depends if it fits your style. Buf it certainly isn't an overpowered Logi of meagadeath. Spkr4thedead: Me > AV This is why tanks are unbalanced Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.
DEZKA DIABLO A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 182	Posted - 2014.02.15 23:57:00 - [28] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: DEZKA DIABLO wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Ok so, so far it seem that most people are ok with the sacrifices that need to be made (it may be early yet though). But what about the bar on cloak field from benefiting from the logi CPU/PG reduction skill bonus? No one has commented on this yet. As I said in my OP the difference would be 40/9 CPU/PG, and that the best upgrade to the demonstrated fitting that I could think of would be: complex cardiac regulator/proto grenade. What are your guys thoughts in this? Personally I don't think the sacrifice is enough honestly, wait until the Amar are using pro damage, charge shot ohk with scr, with base HP . It's ment for scouts to hide, not med frames to abuse, your fitting won't be the only style the better an more op way will be ghost mode, scanner, rep hives, damage , proto gun that decimate at range and profile damps in the lows, make that fit under 28 db an post stats, so .. Shields Damage ( as many as you can) plus factor proficiency 5 The scanner Rep hives And complex profile dampeners Show us stats There you go: Poster requested fitting stats "dampened/ScR/Damage" Relevant stats Fitting shield/armor: 178/346 Fitting max CPU/PG: 691/116 Fitting consumed CPU/PG: 649/113 Fitting shield recharge rate: 15 HP/s Fitting max stamina/stamina recovery: 131.25/12.60 Fitting armor repair rate: 0.0 HP/s Fitting movement speed: 4.61 m/s Fitting sprint speed: 6.77 m/s Fitting profile with cloak inactive: 26 dB Fitting profile with cloak active: 23 dB Gear Complex shield extender 2x Complex light damage modifier Visiam scrambler rifle Locus grenade Proto type scanner (doesn't really matter which one) 2x Allotek nanohive Standard cloak field (CPU/PG consumption: 160/35) Complex power grid upgrade (14 PG at the cost of 24 CPU) Complex CPU upgrade (+179 CPU) 2x complex dampener Basic armor plate Thanks, I run both proto scouts but this is what people should worry about, for one, your ghost without hardly any effort, gallente has passive armor rep in 1.8 plus your HP is still really high, you can see everyone around you and most scouts won't see you passive except a caldari, but he'll have a hard time hiding from you. You might not be fast but with a cloak and 1 damp you ll probably still be under 28 no? It's gonna be worse than thale snipers
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 1261	Posted - 2014.02.16 00:19:00 - [29] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: 1. Cloak is about getting away from the battle, not using it agressively. Why the heck do you have a prototype weapon on a support suit that only has about 500 ehp? Not only is this a waste of fitting space, but is just a bad idea in general. Sometimes the best defense is a good offence. I'm okay with low HP I-Shayz-I wrote: 2. Complex shield energizer? That's another waste of 90 CPU If you think you can do better then post a fit, please. I-Shayz-I wrote: 3. You need a complex armor repair on your suit, especially if you're only runnning 317 armor. There's no point in pulling out an allotek to repair 200 of your armor. Difference of opinion. I-Shayz-I wrote: I just don't understand what you were trying to do here...make it an expensive scout? The equipment setup seems like it's supposed to be for support, yet it is just all around confusing. I'll respond later see if I can make you understand. Right now I'm playing dust with my corp. {:)}{3GÇó>
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 1282	Posted - 2014.02.17 06:06:00 - [30] - Quote Bump {:)}{3GÇó>

Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 1990	Posted - 2014.02.17 07:17:00 - [31] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: It depends, the fit provided is by no means a combat/frontline logi, it might even make sense to drop the scanner for a repair tool. After playing a lot of Mass Effect 3 multiplayer you learn very quickly if you are a vanguardyou need to team up with an infiltrator. Vanguards go down ver easily, often deep in the midst of enemies and infiltrator can revive him WITHOUT taking flack. This is what essentially what this Logi can do, he can cloak through enemy lines to revive team mates in advantagoues positions. Depends if it fits your style. Buf it certainly isn't an overpowered Logi of meagadeath. Spkr4thedead: Me > AV This is why tanks are unbalanced Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2208	Posted - 2014.02.17 09:13:00 - [32] - Quote You do know medium suit base stats are changing, right? So, you're entire OP is basically pointless and irrelevant. edit - that said, if there are no slot changes to logis, I see no reason why they won't just slap on a complex CPU enhancer and still be fine to run cloaks. PLEASE FIX THIS CCP Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 411	Posted - 2014.02.17 09:14:00 - [33] - Quote Django Quik wrote: You do know medium suit base stats are changing, right? So, you're entire OP is basically pointless and irrelevant. Inb4logihpnerf 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
Bayeth Mal OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 55	Posted - 2014.02.17 11:07:00 - [34] - Quote Ugh... OP the reason for the bonus to equipment not applying to the cloak is to prevent slayer logis just getting another buff. The cloak is intended to be used by scouts. While you "can" build a medium suit around the cloak it should come at great expense, we already have logi suits better than assault at combat, we dont need them being better at being scouts as well. "One suit to rule them all" indeed.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance 510	Posted - 2014.02.17 11:14:00 - [35] - Quote I don't see why a logi will not be able to fit a cloak at all. Using mostly advanced gear with all CPU/PG reduction skills etc then I don't think it will be much of a push to fit a fantastic slayer logi. Your initial fit uses too many complex modules and equipments, dialling some down to advanced or even basic (nanite injector) would create a lot of room to breathe as far as fitting goes.
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1645	Posted - 2014.02.17 13:31:00 - [36] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: as a scout, I welcome medium frames like logi's using cloaks. you'll be easier to see(you're physically larger, so more shimmer per shimmer effect will be visible) you'll have less health than I do(finally, someone does!) and, I already learned how to do stealth without it. so at this point it's just gravy for scouts to actually be invisible, instead of just mostly invisible(since people in the "good" corps rely more on their active scanners than their eyes anyways) So, fit away, just know that you won't fool a scout. I am simply seeking community input on the viability of "cloaked logies". And discussion on how to make them more viable if it is the community consensus that they would be UP. As I stated in the OP, I am of the opinion that there should be at least one other suit class capable of being at least simi-viable with the cloak. All but prototype cloaks should be viable on any suit. The standard should easily fit on any suit and be a total piece of junk. Prototype scouts should get a bonus to cloaking but that shouldn't be the only role the scout plays. I would say advanced scouts but I think you should have to put lots of SP into a really good cloaky suit. "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." Raoul Duke
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 3391	Posted - 2014.02.17 13:36:00 - [37] - Quote GALANTE LOGIS CAN ATTAIN 640CPU? WHAAAAAAAAAT!!!!! The community is the worst thing that ever happened to this game. Tank driver // specialized tank destroyer
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 3401	Posted - 2014.02.17 14:36:00 - [38] - Quote Hynox Xitio wrote: I'm still a fan of the cloaking commando with nova knives and a plasma cannon. #Gank You could do that with a scout and be better in every way. Using a sidearm on a commando suit is stupid. The community is the worst thing that ever happened to this game. Tank driver // specialized tank destroyer
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2184	Posted - 2014.03.02 05:17:00 - [39] - Quote Cloak is primarily a scout piece of equipment. Other suits can use it but at a serious cost. Working as intendedGäó "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 1847	Posted - 2014.03.02 05:29:00 - [40] - Quote I'd say thats fine. If you wanna be a ninja invisible dude, then use a Scout Suit. Logi's need to get back to being support, which I see 1.8 doing by compartmentalizing the logi's into each races equipment. tl;dr, This is good. It makes logi's forced into using their equip to actually support teammates (Keeping ammo topped, armor topped, quick respawn points, revving, albeit not all with one guy anymore), and scouts a actual advantage over other classes by having them be able to something that no other class can without sacrificing its entire fit Because you Wanted to be Something your Not.

Tectonic Fusion 1163	Posted - 2014.03.02 05:30:00 - [41] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: as a scout, I welcome medium frames like logi's using cloaks. you'll be easier to see(you're physically larger, so more shimmer per shimmer effect will be visible) you'll have less health than I do(finally, someone does!) and, I already learned how to do stealth without it. so at this point it's just gravy for scouts to actually be invisible, instead of just mostly invisible(since people in the "good" corps rely more on their active scanners than their eyes anyways) So, fit away, just know that you won't fool a scout. Actually you'll go from stealthy (no cloak, but able to see everyone and out of enemy sight) to being invisible to the terrible half blind monkeys (using the cloak). Solo Player Squad status: Locked
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1781	Posted - 2014.03.02 06:52:00 - [42] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: as a scout, I welcome medium frames like logi's using cloaks. you'll be easier to see(you're physically larger, so more shimmer per shimmer effect will be visible) you'll have less health than I do(finally, someone does!) and, I already learned how to do stealth without it. so at this point it's just gravy for scouts to actually be invisible, instead of just mostly invisible(since people in the "good" corps rely more on their active scanners than their eyes anyways) So, fit away, just know that you won't fool a scout. I am simply seeking community input on the viability of "cloaked logies". And discussion on how to make them more viable if it is the community consensus that they would be UP. As I stated in the OP, I am of the opinion that there should be at least one other suit class capable of being at least simi-viable with the cloak. Logis aren't supposed to be "stealthy". Therefore, you're going outside of it's relm of expertise, and you should suffer fititng wise to make something like this work. No, the cloak shouldn't be viable on anything but the Scout (until another medium or heavy frame comes along that is stealth oriented). I would change "shouldn't be viable" to "should be difficult to use". The standard cloak should be easy to fit but come with some fairly hardcore drawbacks, the advanced should use more resources but still be fairly useless and the prototype should be useable but not practical on anything but a stealth oriented suit. Change the shimmer effect or decloak distance on standards so that they are difficult to use but easy to fit. Making the cloak a one suit trick really limits the number of unique builds that players could use. Yes, a RR caring cloaky heavy sounds like junk or OPed or whatever words you want to put on it but we shouldn't limit players because the game is missing out every time we restrict a fit because we don't agree with. Yes I agree that prototype scouts should be about the only thing that can use a cloak well and the only suit that can use a prototype cloak but the advanced and lower should be able to be fit to any suit with the resources. "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." Raoul Duke
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1798	Posted - 2014.03.02 09:28:00 - [43] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Ok so, so far it seem that most people are ok with the sacrifices that need to be made (it may be early yet though). But what about the bar on cloak field from benefiting from the logi CPU/PG reduction skill bonus? No one has commented on this yet. As I said in my OP the difference would be 40/9 CPU/PG, and that the best upgrade to the demonstrated fitting that I could think of would be: complex cardiac regulator/proto grenade. What are your guys thoughts in this? logi's don't benefit from it; that's been confirmed already. Pay attention. 'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever! Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7118	Posted - 2014.03.02 09:51:00 - [44] - Quote 1. No 2. No 3. It is so that only scouts reign supreme when it comes to stealth. Logis shouldn't be able to marginalize scouts anymore like they do now. I agree with CCP on their decision. Besides, the cloak is useless for a logi anyways since most scanners will be able to pick you up and light you up like a Christmas tree even while cloaked. Scouts will excel in avoiding scanners. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Crazy Cat Lady Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 70	Posted - 2014.03.02 20:51:00 - [45] - Quote I'm certainly in favor of experimenting with a Logistics fit so the idea of using a cloak on a logi is a very interesting one. My question to you is: how are you intending to use this suit? What role will it be playing in the battle field? It seems people are assuming you are experimenting with cloaking a medium suit not using a cloak for the logi role. Is that right? I'm interested in hearing ideas on how a cloak may be used within the support role of a logi- if at all. My first thoughts are - for uplink placements or for getting to a downed team mate safely with a wiyrkomi nanite injector. However these put your uncloaked team mate at risk to some degree. Maybe you could use it for survivability when you need to make a quick escape because your squad all died? Not sure if these are worth the fitting cost though.
Fire of Prometheus Alpha Response Command 3867	Posted - 2014.03.02 20:57:00 - [46] - Quote honestly, this suit wouldnt be very viable. it has little tank (my raven assault c-1 has more ehp) and has no armour rep. the cloak equipment costs are fine relative to logis. heres to hoping 1.8 is the death of the murderlogi. Scout- "I'm going to knife you my commando!!!" commando turns around Commando- "FAAAAALCCCOOONNNNN PUUUUNNNCCCCHH!!"


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