DUST Search - Tanks - 1.8 changes

Tebu Gan wrote:

Identifying the Problem

Tanks need to be fixed before they go implementing a infantry patch. Makes no sense to do all this infantry work, when infantry are struggling (namely ambush) to deal with tanks, or I should say, the sheer number of tanks. This problem has nothing to do with the strength of AV or the strength of tanks.

I think that this problem is rather specific. In ambush, having 6 tanks on one side, basically means a win.

Though, as I have been doing a lot of domination of late, the same can apply to that mode as well. Map dependent of course.

And of course skirmish, tanks can have a large impact, but at least infantry generally has a place to go, and plenty of room to frolic.

Tanks have always been somewhat of a problem in ambush, though pre 1.7 they were very easy to deal with. Now though, they are nearly impossible for anything but a forge gun or tank, and even then it can be a struggle. One tank, not an issue, though 6 tanks and you are going to have a bad time, mkay.

From my personal experience, a lot of this is due to milita tanks. Very rarely do I ever blow up an actual gunnlogi or maddie. Milta tanks are incredibly cheap, and very powerful. Because of this, it is very easy to spam. Given the new resistances and reps, these things can also be impossible for any infantry AV, especially when you have enemy AI running around.

But, there is a trend going around atm. Did you know, that tanking pre 1.7 actually wasn't that awful at one time. While I did get blown up quite often starting out, I was able to survive much longer until swarms came along. See in the beginning, a LOT of people were just starting out. Then a triple SP event came around, and guess what happened. Everyone and their mothers speced into swarm launchers, thus the tanker QQ got thick and heavy. People figured out, hey, swarm launchers murder tanks, thus more swarms were on the field.

Guess what we just had (hint hint, a triple SP event)

What I'm noticing, are a lot more STD tanks on the field. So even if they were to do something with milita, tanks will still be a problem. It will shift from MLT tanks to STD tanks.

Adjust cost on MLT tanks to better reflect their power (they are very similar in power to their STD couterpart) cost needs to certainly increase. This WILL stop the spam. But still, I think the focus will simply shift to the STD tanks. You think MLT tanks are bad, try an SP invested tank.

The solutions

What I would like to see, is an overall price hike on tanks in general.

Say a fit for a pro tank is a Mil.

A MLT fit should be at 400 to 500K

So tanks in general will cost you half a mil to a mil to run per game. Given their power, this is totally fair.

Add WP for tank damage, make it appealing to run AV against a tank.

Next, WP for tank damage needs to be implemented. What this does, is make it very appealing to actually attempt AV against a tank. So one tank rolls up, and over half the team switches to AV, that tank WILL die, AV will get a good chunk for the effort, and tanks will still require multiple people to take them out.

Everyone's happier.

And of course, tanks need to be FINISHED ALREADY. I've already put out my idea's on tank fixes but for the mean time, what I stated here should happen with the 1.8 release. No buffing of AV, or nerfing of tanks. Things are in a better spot than you think with tank balance, the problem though is the ease at which people can run tanks, which results in the "TANK SPAM" and the cries to nerf tanks.

Rather than doing something stupidly drastic ( again ) make these small changes so you can actually focus on balancing the numbers. Fix the actual problems not the skewed misinterpretations of people less familiar with tanks!

TL;DR


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Bormir1r WarRavens League of Infamy 60	Posted - 2014.02.15 23:18:00 - [1] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Identifying the Problem Tanks need to be fixed before they go implementing a infantry patch. Makes no sense to do all this infantry work, when infantry are struggling (namely ambush) to deal with tanks, or I should say, the sheer number of tanks. This problem has nothing to do with the strength of AV or the strength of tanks. I think that this problem is rather specific. In ambush, having 6 tanks on one side, basically means a win. Though, as I have been doing a lot of domination of late, the same can apply to that mode as well. Map dependent of course. And of course skirmish, tanks can have a large impact, but at least infantry generally has a place to go, and plenty of room to frolic. Tanks have always been somewhat of a problem in ambush, though pre 1.7 they were very easy to deal with. Now though, they are nearly impossible for anything but a forge gun or tank, and even then it can be a struggle. One tank, not an issue, though 6 tanks and you are going to have a bad time, mkay. From my personal experience, a lot of this is due to milita tanks. Very rarely do I ever blow up an actual gunnlogi or maddie. Milta tanks are incredibly cheap, and very powerful. Because of this, it is very easy to spam. Given the new resistances and reps, these things can also be impossible for any infantry AV, especially when you have enemy AI running around. But, there is a trend going around atm. Did you know, that tanking pre 1.7 actually wasn't that awful at one time. While I did get blown up quite often starting out, I was able to survive much longer until swarms came along. See in the beginning, a LOT of people were just starting out. Then a triple SP event came around, and guess what happened. Everyone and their mothers speced into swarm launchers, thus the tanker QQ got thick and heavy. People figured out, hey, swarm launchers murder tanks, thus more swarms were on the field. Guess what we just had (hint hint, a triple SP event) What I'm noticing, are a lot more STD tanks on the field. So even if they were to do something with milita, tanks will still be a problem. It will shift from MLT tanks to STD tanks. Adjust cost on MLT tanks to better reflect their power (they are very similar in power to their STD couterpart) cost needs to certainly increase. This WILL stop the spam. But still, I think the focus will simply shift to the STD tanks. You think MLT tanks are bad, try an SP invested tank. The solutions What I would like to see, is an overall price hike on tanks in general. Say a fit for a pro tank is a Mil. A MLT fit should be at 400 to 500K So tanks in general will cost you half a mil to a mil to run per game. Given their power, this is totally fair. Add WP for tank damage, make it appealing to run AV against a tank. Next, WP for tank damage needs to be implemented. What this does, is make it very appealing to actually attempt AV against a tank. So one tank rolls up, and over half the team switches to AV, that tank WILL die, AV will get a good chunk for the effort, and tanks will still require multiple people to take them out. Everyone's happier. And of course, tanks need to be FINISHED ALREADY. I've already put out my idea's on tank fixes but for the mean time, what I stated here should happen with the 1.8 release. No buffing of AV, or nerfing of tanks. Things are in a better spot than you think with tank balance, the problem though is the ease at which people can run tanks, which results in the "TANK SPAM" and the cries to nerf tanks. Rather than doing something stupidly drastic ( again ) make these small changes so you can actually focus on balancing the numbers. Fix the actual problems not the skewed misinterpretations of people less familiar with tanks! TL;DR I would feel better if AVs were buffed slightly (not to pre-1.7 specs) but half of the gap between the damage of the pre and post-1.7 AVs should be gone. Essentially 1.8 AVs should be (pre 1.7 damage - post 1.7 damage)/2 + post 1.7 damage. Then AVs would be more viable against tanks, but other than that I agree that increasing the prices of tanks is an excellent idea, especially for militia. Care to mention any solutions to the dropship? Minja. We run and hide. And then we kill you.