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The Attorney General
1940
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Posted - 2014.02.13 14:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
Atiim wrote:
2?
I just got out of a match where I was going up against Senator Snipe and another dude's Forge Gun.
They didn't manage to come close to killing me, and I still managed to kill 3 enemy HAVs.
Are they bad?
Clearly, they were playing the objective and you were staying way the hell out of danger farming WP.
That is why you are not a tanker.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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The Attorney General
1941
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Posted - 2014.02.13 15:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Atiim wrote:
They were on top of a tower, and The only times I retreated is when all my modules died.
Farming WP? How? All of the HAVs I killed were in CQC.
Apparently I'm am a bad tanker, and he has a PRO forge and another guy running around with a DAU. Shouldn't they have absolutely demolished my puny little tank?
So either they are just bad, or I am just good?
Depends on the map.
Did you win the match?
Snipe isn't bad, so I suspect you were not being aggressive, and were probably getting redlined.
But feel free to make up more of a cool story bro.
Given your record of hyperbole, it is difficult to believe your story.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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The Attorney General
1941
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Posted - 2014.02.13 16:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Tankers are really hurting their credibility, especially the veteran ones who can't acknowledge how OP tanks are in pub match setting.
They are not OP in a PC match where you can control the variables of your own team. But in a pub match the odds are against you that you'll be able to control the infantry and deal with the tanks.
It's really one or the other and sometimes neither depending on the quality of your blueberries. Call me crazy but I don't think two or three tanks in a pub match of an FPS should be able to completely dictate a battle.
I've seen ONE dude able to maul infantry in a PC match. There are probably many more, but the one that stood out to me is Legend. Everyone else it doing tank on tank and tank vs dropship warfare.
Legend and Clay were pretty much the only two.
Do you know what you control in a match? Yourself and your squad. If you are having tank problems, take two forge users, play DOM, and take the high ground right at the start of the match. No more tank problem, at least as far as winning the match goes.
If people are not going into pub matches without at least making sure that their squad contains either a serious AV player or a tanker is just doing it wrong, and they deserve to get stepped on.
I feel bad for people who are new to this game, and I think that CCP should just remove vehicles from ambush to give the crybabies somewhere safe to play.
Beyond that, people playing objective game modes who do not even attempt to control the high ground make me laugh. You can determine the outcome of the match in the first 30 seconds. If the enemy doesn't even attempt to go for the heights it will be a slaughter.
What I find most hilarious about that is that before, when tanks were not as strong, you would always see people flying up with FGs and Swarms at match start. Everyone was in a rush to get the best upper deck positions to farm anyone dumb enough to call in vehicles. Now that they actually need to do this, no one does. Maybe it has something to do with it not being easy mode any more.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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The Attorney General
1941
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Posted - 2014.02.13 16:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Atiim wrote:
So Snipe Isn't bad. That makes me good right?
Nope.
You want to prove yourself as a tanker, we can do that. Who do you play for in FW?
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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The Attorney General
1941
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Posted - 2014.02.13 16:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:
You aren't seeing the bigger picture. Everything you said is true, but consider this.
My AV suit costs around 250K. If I decide to deal with tanks I will lose at least two of them. In other words there is ZERO incentive to do so. And not to mention that my AV suit is ineffective versus tanks anyway.
So very few people do because there is no incentive to do so.
And to be honest I do not want to play a game where you have to get to high ground and camp with AV weapons. I don't think many people are interested in that.
Although I should. It's much cheaper and I could boost my KDR. Thanks, I'm going to skill into FGs on my main and camp from towers.
I understand that for blues, there might be little or no incentive. But those people are not the people you are playing with. Do you mean to tell me that you don't have people skilled into forges in ML? Are there no people who like to blow up vehicles in your corp? I find that very hard to believe.
Are there no logis who want the ridiculous WP farm that is the rep hives left for a heavy on a rooftop? Or even the triage points if he wants to run Amarr logi and Snipe from up there as well.
Where are the squad leaders who want silly commission points from a tandem pair of a heavy and a Sniper logi working together?
I'll admit to playing an ISK negative playstyle on my heavy, because tower camping is boring, even though it gets the job done.
I like getting right in a tanks face, and giving him the business while he either tries to run or dares to stand and face me. Prof 5 FG and proto nades allow you those luxuries. My Av suit costs me over 250k but it is VERY effective. I just wish the FG charge time was back to 1.6 levels, because it really needs it.
WP for vehicle damage will help though. Hopefully that gets in before too long.
I am amazed that at least half of the playerbase has not specced proto forges by now, given how much people complain about tanks.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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The Attorney General
1945
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Posted - 2014.02.13 17:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:
I have proficiency 5 forges. I rarely use them as they are far less effective than a militia rail tank.
I find a forge to be much more effective at controlling an area than a MLT rail tank.
The Forge is only out of action for as long as it takes to reload, whereas the MLT rail tank has to leave or get popped. A heavy suit, up high with rep hives or a logi is not going any where and is capable of dealing out damage as long as the reps and hives hold out. Countered only by multiple snipers, or a redline rail, or potentially a DS rush while occupied, it is able to create a beaten area around its position that any tank entering will be force to activate modules, thus triggering its countdown to departure.
I would even argue that a FG up high makes cheap MLT tanks vastly more powerful, by being able to add enough DPS to make up for the higher quality equipment the enemy could possibly field.
Finally, consider the recon abilities of the vertical heavy. Not only can they keep effective watch, they can also quarter back the HAV operations, forming a vital link in the Infantry Armor co-ordination.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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The Attorney General
1946
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Posted - 2014.02.13 17:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Yeah, tower forging is also OP. CCP should put fences up there. But should AV really have to revert to the scrubbiest of tactics to have a chance versus tanks? Shouldn't feet on the ground have a chance too? PS - This is a pleasant change from replying to SPKR. You are the respectable face of tanking 
I don't find tower forging to be OP at all. It is a reasonable tactical and strategic move to do in any match. It is an optimal approach to functioning AV, go to the place where the enemy will have the greates trouble dislodging you, and from where you can be most effective.
Tower forging used to be scrubby. That was when tanks couldn't see you, and it only took a few shots to drop an unprepared tanker. Now, where railtanks can reach out and get you if you stand still, where missiles have the range and accuracy(when slow fired) and where for some reason blasters have sill range, it is alot more challenging. Especially when you consider that a well built dropship can survive quite a hammering to make sure to drop troops up on your rooftop if you do not pay constant attention.
No, I don't think Tower forging is anywhere as scrubby as it used to be, especially since they reduced the splash radius to make blapping infantry not so easy. I would go so far as to say that having a competent forger in a squad is key to a responsible battle strategy if you have no armor. It allows you to control two flags in most cases, freeing up resources to attack a third one, thereby winning the match.
On top of all that, I want to point out that with my prof 5 FG heavy with proto grenades, I am not troubled in taking an LAV and rolling up to any tank and giving them a rude awakening. The order with which you use either your grenade or forge shots is critical depending on the fit you are fighting, but you have a better than even chance of tackling any tank that you go up against, provided you don't try and engage like a complete muppet.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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