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Daddrobit
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
466
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Posted - 2014.02.11 12:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
This post is going to be long, so prepare yourself. No TL;DR, just read it.
And a forward apology to Renegade Alliance. I have nothing against you guys personally, but I'll be using you guys for examples a lot here.
Alright, so I've put in a lot of thought and have had a few discussions with others on the matter, and in my opinion, the current iteration of PC is deficient on a few fronts. I'd like to cover them here and highlight a few ways they might be improved.
How Deep Is The Rabbit Hole Again?
Answer: About a foot and a half.
One of the parts that was supposed to be part of the intrigue of the game was how you could either play the game like any other shooter out there and just play pubs to your hearts content OR you could dive down the rabbit hole and see exactly how much the game had to offer through planetary conquest and the integration with EVE in that endeavor. And once you did that, you could really reap in the rewards.
First let me start with the surface element of PC that nags at me: It's a skirmish match with optional orbital support from EVE, not so optional friendly fire, looting, more isk reward, and a set time for when it's going to happen. But that's all there is to it. There's no Feeling of you actually defending your territory and there's no Feeling of you actually conquering an area. The only feeling you get is that your buddies are slightly more uptight, and the feeling that you're seeing slightly more proto gear than a normal pub match.
The solution here could be mildly simple. This is the perfect place for Skirmish 1.0 to be re-introduced. There was only one MCC, which would make sense in the scenario of PC. If you already own an installation then that is your command center, therefore you would have no use for a MOBILE command center. Whereas someone who was attacking you with no or very little foothold would. Skirmish 1.0 really promoted the feeling of moving in on a defended area, and that you were there to take it. And defending made out in much the same way.
You guys over at Shanghai have smoothed over most of the glaring technical problems that were going on back in the early closed beta, come on, it time to bring Skirmish 1.0 back.
Next is my problem with the system we currently have with the EVE integration. Currently the way it sits is that it really doesn't promote or require an EVE presence to speak of to be really successful and I see this as a two part problem with a possible remedy I'll give after I'm done with explaining the problems.
Now of course EVE support helps it helps but it's nearly completely unnecessary to take and hold districts. Let's take a look at Renegade Alliance for our example. Head over to http://www.dustcharts.com/ and click on 'District Ownership' in the sidebar on the left. What you'll see is that they currently own just under 45% of all districts in the game, that's 109 districts.
Now lets take a look at what their EVE side is doing. https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99002832/page/1/
I only went back 10 pages into the history of kills/deaths but that's still nearly 2 weeks of data to draw from. I'll paraphrase what I see happening there. I could identify roughly 24-25 different battles going on where there were EVE strikes involved, However there were only 4 that were done by Renegade Alliance pilots. And yes, while they are up there killing lots of ships, they were still getting massacred as evidenced by the huge streaks of red dropsuits indicating their losses on the ground.
But regardless, by only utilizing EVE support in the endeavor of actually killing other mercs in roughly one out of every six matches, they are able to control half of Molden Heath.
And you know what, I wouldn't even have a problem with that if it weren't for...
The Rewards.
The income generated by one clone sold is 150,000 isk. RA owns 109 districts, 14 Production Facilities, 8 Reasearch Labs, and 87 Cargo Hubs. This means that if they were to be producing clones out of all of them, they'd have an income of 1,338,000 isk per day.
That's 1.3 Billion Isk Per Day!
That's not an isk faucet, it's a goddamned waterfall.
And how far down was that rabbit hole again? The integration required to be overwhelmingly wealthy and successful isn't really like diving down the rabbithole, so much as it's more like sitting on a comfy pillow next to the hole while occasionally bending over to stick your arm in to push a button. |
Daddrobit
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
466
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Posted - 2014.02.11 12:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
So here's my proposed solution to this in 3 parts.
First off, dam up the isk waterfall. Hard. I'm talking make the isk payouts 1/5 of what they currently are if not less. This still puts some money in your pocket, but we need to stem the flow, we'll never have an open player market with something like this producing billions of isk for a teensy percentage of the population of Dust.
Second, make the reward not so much the isk gained, but make it into a gear production system. Here's a tentative idea of how I would make it work.
You could give a corp role to a member(s) of the alliance/corp like Equipment Manager or some such. Then that person would go into the district control tab and select a district. He would then select the type of gear he wants that district to generate. Then, every day that the district is unlocked, it's generating gear that would go into the alliance/corporation hanger to be divvied up to the members as necessary.
While this might seem like a tedious and or boring task, quite frankly everybody's gotta take their lumps and you have ditricts to manage. And you could give the role to multiple people to make the work load lighter. This role would not include the ability to let go of the district or anything silly, they would just simply be the guys that tells the districts what to produce.
This is (again, tentative) idea on how the gear production would work.
Each district would have 8 production areas: Suits, Guns, Suit Modules, Equipment, Vehicles, Large Turrets, Small Turrets, and Vehicle Modules.
At any given time, each district can produce from 4 of those areas.
Each district would produce only prototype gear, (or standard vehicles since that's the best we have) and it would produce it in sets.
So if you chose the Dropsuits category, and selected the Gallente Assault, it would after 24 hours produce 15 or so prototype Gallente Assault dropsuits.
You would then be able to select 3 other categories and get a set of 'X' amount of that gear after 24 hours as well.
I would top off the maximum value of any given set produced at in and around 1,000,000 isk. So you could be generating 4,000,000 isk worth of gear off a district at any given time. If this seems low when compared to the 12-15 mil straight isk they earn right now, I'll explain why in a bit.
And here's the third way to help make the rabbit hole a little deeper: better rewards for the EVE side folks.
Make the EVE folks Want this game to succeed, and make them Want to be a part of it. The EVE bonuses we have right now are ok, but that's all they are, just 'ok'. We can keep them as they are, but here's where we can really start making that EVE/Dust connection.
Make it so that you can give that Equipment Manager title to an EVE side person and then if that person does the gear management from a station in the same system as the district that's generating it, give the gear generated a bonus of up to %100 based on the EVE characters Industry skill.
So now that 15 dropsuits we were talking about earlier just turned into 30. And that 4 million isk tag turned into 8 million.Not too terribly far off from the straight isk made now actually.
But how does that make the EVE guy want to do this?
Simple: give him isk. Nothing in EVE motivates people to do things more than isk. Give the industry guys more things to do other than sit in a belt mining watching their strippers cycle and wait for their production timers to tick away, all while giving them a small isk faucet. Have some lore about it making it easier on station staff or some silly thing, (you guys at CCP are good at making that stuff up) and toss the eggers a couple mil for jumping around lowsec doing district management. They'd probably be all over it.
So In Conclusion!
Doing these things would help kill the overwhelming income of straight isk that PC currently brings in, while still producing the gear corporations need to function at that level even without EVE support, all while making PC more than just a glorified skirmish match and increasing the interest level that EVE players have in the game, as well as encourage Dust players to seek them out.
Anyways, it's 5:30 in the morning and I'd love to hear your input on my suggestions here. Especially if they have a blue tag. 
Have a good one! |
Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
2153
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Posted - 2014.02.11 13:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
I agree the passive isk generated is ridiculous.
I've been a proponent of the introduction of material rewards that drop on a % base on a perpetual basis.
Isk should be generated through battle.
I personally favor introduction of officer drops along with normal salvage that is dropped for holding districts, ex:
Say a district produces:
(insert #) of Duvolle Assault Rifles 100x drops daily on a (insert % based drop rate) every day.
(insert #) of other Gallente based module's, suits, or weapons 100x drops daily on a (insert individual % based drop rate relative to the rarity and isk value of the item) every day.
(insert #) of Balac's Gar Assault Rifles 100x drops daily on a (5% based drop rate) every day.
Ideally the drops would be of a particular race based on the type of infrastructure.
Each infrastructure would have individual drops different from others.
Officer gear for each module, suit, and weapon would need to be released in order to achieve this.
You could then add on the addendum that multiple districts of the same type would give bonuses to the drop rate or quantity
of the items produced on the district.
Alternatively instead of drop rates based on chance you could manufacture items that would be designated by the CEO or those with relevant roles to be produced:
Standard gear could be produced rather quickly
Officer gear would take quite a bit of time, risk and reward. Say I order 100x balacs but I have to hold the district for 10 days and if I lost it during production the order is negated.
Owning multiple districts of the same type of facility would yield production increases.
I based this idea off of my experience playing the MMO Ragnarok Online. The endgame of RO was called the War of Emperium and anyone familiar with it will recognize the influences.
CEO Fatal Absolution
B3RT > PFBHz > TP > MHPD > IMP > F4TAL
Skype me @ Zatara.Rought
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Alternate Insano
SUICIDE SPITE SQUAD
8
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Posted - 2014.02.11 13:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
These would be great ideas, but DUST is for players who want to pay to win. If it weren't CCP would have already implemented them. |
ResistanceGTA
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
242
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Posted - 2014.02.11 13:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Still reading, but you missed some 0s when talking about isk generated by RA, or you put in a B instead on an M (its the 0s).
Continuing to read...
xSivartx is my Heavy. There are many like him, but he is my own...
So, other Logi's back off, those are my Warpoints!
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Yagihige
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
559
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Posted - 2014.02.11 14:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
What about introducing more building slots for districts? I actually never understood the logic between producing clones and selling them? What are they for anyway? Do they have a use other than being a ISK generator?
I'd like it if corps would benefit more through using their clones to populate districts where they had built production buildings which would churn out weapons, dropsuits, vehicles, etc.
As we have it now, the buildings you can build in PC districts are a bit limited. They're called Research and Production but actually don't produce or research anything but clones.
If i were CCP, i would still leave the 3 building classes exactly the same but have a lot more specific ones for each class.
Like this:
Production Facility/Research Lab
- Weapons
- Dropsuits
- Vehicles
- Equipment
- Modules
Cargo Hub
- Engineer Clones
- Mechanic Clones
- Worker Clones
- Scientist Clones
- Soldier Clones
Each building would be specialized in its own particular field. Only Cargo Hubs produce clones.
Clones can't be sold back to the NPC store.
So your corp either has more than 1 district and uses clones produced in the Cargo Hub in their Research/Production districts or instead you can focus on having just Cargo Hubs and you sell your clones to corps who only have Research/Production buildings.
There's 4 basic possibilities for your corp. You can:
a) control at least 3 districts. One with a Cargo Hub so you can produce clones. But remember, your Cargo Hub would produce a specific type of clone. One with a Research Lab that you transfer clones to so they research licenses for production. And finally one with a Production Facility where you'll produce weapons, vehicles, etc., which you can keep for yourself or put on the market.
b) build only Cargo Hubs on your districts and sell clones to districts that need them.
c) build only Research Labs. Acquire clones from Cargo Hubs and research Production Licenses.
d) build only Production Facilities. Acquire licenses from Labs and produce items to put on the market or for your corp members' use.
Or of course a whole set of different combinations. Clones deployed to Research/Production buildings wouldn't be there forever, though. There should be a erosion factor, as they work in very demanding conditions so steadily they'd decline and you'd need to replace them to continue production/research. The number of clones in the district would of course dictate how fast your production is.
em ta kool t'nod
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Rogue Saint
Science For Death
771
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Posted - 2014.02.11 14:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tax
There needs to be a tax on clone sales. Everything in New Eden is taxed, but in DUST, nothing! Genolution are basically working for free!
Sovereignty Bill
You have districts, pay for the privilege! CCP can work out the numbers, either corp/alliance numbers or how much was earned through clone sales.
GôêGÆ+GÆ+GƦ - Causes headaches, it's official
+1 for Infantry Skills Refund in 1.8 or I win DUST514
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
2157
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Posted - 2014.02.11 15:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nah cause I've beaten many a team with 14 >:)
CEO Fatal Absolution
B3RT > PFBHz > TP > MHPD > IMP > F4TAL
Skype me @ Zatara.Rought
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soulreaper73
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
718
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Posted - 2014.02.11 17:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
excellent post robbit. however, i need coffee after reading that |
Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
2162
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 20:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
I think this needs moar bunny love!
CEO Fatal Absolution
B3RT > PFBHz > TP > MHPD > IMP > F4TAL
Skype me @ Zatara.Rought
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Ayures II
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
428
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Posted - 2014.02.11 20:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Alternate Insano wrote:These would be great ideas, but DUST is for players who want to pay to win. If it weren't CCP would have already implemented them.
Did you eat paint chips when you were a child? |
Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1451
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Posted - 2014.02.11 20:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
"Bring back Skirmish 1.0" is a popular, but perhaps... unhelpful perspective to champion. There are things about the game mode that worked very well, and things that didn't. There are things from that game mode that should be reintroduced, but I don't think we need Skirmish 1.0. We need Skirmish 3.0, built on lessons learned by both 1.0 and 2.0, and the pros and cons of each.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
2165
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 21:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:"Bring back Skirmish 1.0" is a popular, but perhaps... unhelpful perspective to champion. There are things about the game mode that worked very well, and things that didn't. There are things from that game mode that should be reintroduced, but I don't think we need Skirmish 1.0. We need Skirmish 3.0, built on lessons learned by both 1.0 and 2.0, and the pros and cons of each.
This post goes so much deeper than that cursory comment! Come on Soraya! 
I personally think the home team starting in the base is a fantastic Idea.
CEO Fatal Absolution
B3RT > PFBHz > TP > MHPD > IMP > F4TAL
Skype me @ Zatara.Rought
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
2166
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 01:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
BUMP! DISCUSS YOU NOOBS!
CEO Fatal Absolution
B3RT > PFBHz > TP > MHPD > IMP > F4TAL
Skype me @ Zatara.Rought
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